No Achaean Language

Prythe

Nicola said:

Try SCORE FULL or to be super specific SCORE LANGUAGES

SPEAK also works, and is faster. 

Remilia

All Mhaldorians speak in the city langauge anyway. No change~

Shayde

Remilia said:

All Mhaldorians speak in the city langauge anyway. No change~

Except when they're trying to buy shiny things from heathens

Trey

Shayde said:

Remilia said:

All Mhaldorians speak in the city langauge anyway. No change~

Except when they're trying to buy sell shiny things from to heathens

Virgo

Shayde said:

Remilia said:

All Mhaldorians speak in the city langauge anyway. No change~

Except when they're trying to buy shiny things from heathens

Or when we're insulting non-Mhaldorians and non-Mhun.

Nope, that's just me..... 

Shayde

Trey said:

Shayde said:

Remilia said:

All Mhaldorians speak in the city langauge anyway. No change~

Except when they're trying to buy sell shiny things from to heathens

This is true... Proficy needs to sell all of his minerals somehow.

Asmodron

In all seriousness, if we did want this to remain as a mechanic, then the following additions might need to be implemented:


- The ability to understand most NPCs naturally...at least those required for essentials...such as Murad and Sugardowns announcer. This also includes loyals


- Newbies automatically set to their city language upon leaving trial and informed that while they can speak their city's language, they would need to evolve their language skills to speak to 'outsiders'. (Not that they really will until comfortable enough in the game)


- Newbies informed that upon quitting their city, they lose the language and this may make it more difficult for them. (This is, of course, if the mechanic of 'forgetting' your city language after quitting is still in place. I always found it weird).


- Make all loyals to a city speak that city's language...because that'd be cool.


-Make learning new languages less of a deterring idea and remove the idea of increased costs to learn. As an Additional idea, add the possibilities to learn languages of all current races found, thus opening up the possibility of understanding what they are saying (Should we keep all races currently found with their own language that is). Examples are Goblin, Ursu, Gnoll, Mingruk, etc. It could become akin to a collection. As someone mentioned, your skill could also increase by attempting to speak to members of that race (perhaps a cap per day).


- Give the chance to learn the language of others cities. While I know some love the secrecy of speaking their own language...it never really made sense that one would be 'unable' to learn a language merely for not being associated with an org. That isnt really how learning new languages work. Make it that one can learn a city's language by reading books written in said language or communicating with others fluent in it (again, perhaps a cap per day).

Ismay

Ya know, there is such a thing as too much realism. I don't want to play a game that requires me to take a poop, and I certainly don't want to have to go through interpreters for communication purposes. This reminds me of the weather threads. 

A great rule of thumb here - many players would rather lose some realism than have to deal with an annoyance. What looks interesting now will quickly start wearing on nerves after the new wears off.

Aralaya

the argument is moot anyway, achaean is back and is most likely here to stay, at least until the next April Fools

Aralaya

@Nicola and @Makarios despite Achaean already having returned, do you guys have any input or comments on our arguments?

Jayden

Aralaya said:

the argument is moot anyway, achaean is back and is most likely here to stay, at least until the next April Fools

Kayeil

You guys could still have it. Just refuse to speak Achaean anymore, and there you go. 

Asmodron

Kayeil said:

You guys could still have it. Just refuse to speak Achaean anymore, and there you go. 

...that is definitely not how it works. For someone not to be speaking the 'common' language alone, while it exists, just shows stupidity...

The entire basis of the discussion was immersion, not "special snowflake" status

Asmodron

As for another point, I honestly wouldnt mind replacing "Achaean" with "Human", simply for effect and lore reasons. What 'is' achaean? A jumble of languages altogether? I honestly dont know. What I do know is that Humans are the dominating race, are per lore, and there was even a time where the non-human races were shunned (also from lore). Seems only fitting that the main language on sapience would be Human. This also wouldnt harm anything or anyone, since they'd still have their 'universal' language. It would just have a different name.

Kayeil

Asmodron said:

Kayeil said:

You guys could still have it. Just refuse to speak Achaean anymore, and there you go. 

...that is definitely not how it works. For someone not to be speaking the 'common' language alone, while it exists, just shows stupidity...

The entire basis of the discussion was immersion, not "special snowflake" status

It'll encourage special snowflake status the moment certain people refuse to use the comprehension necklaces and expect you to spend extra time and attention communicating with them.

Kez

I refused to speak any other language than city on a character before. Everyone just thought I was an asshole.

Proficy

Makes people need to learn languages now! They should make a tutor somewhere be able to teach city languages... within the city odv. So enemies cant learn the language 

Prythe

Asmodron said:

As for another point, I honestly wouldnt mind replacing "Achaean" with "Human", simply for effect and lore reasons. What 'is' achaean? A jumble of languages altogether? I honestly dont know. What I do know is that Humans are the dominating race, are per lore, and there was even a time where the non-human races were shunned (also from lore). Seems only fitting that the main language on sapience would be Human. This also wouldnt harm anything or anyone, since they'd still have their 'universal' language. It would just have a different name.

It might make sense, but it always bothered me that Humans did not have their own language, while all other races did. Being Human I felt I was losing out. Would feel that way again if it reverted. Just because all "descended" from Humans doesn't mean they would have retained their ancestral tongue.

Frederich

Humans have their own language. Also, humans were not the basis of creation.  Trolls, dwarves, tsolaa, and horkvali came before them. 

Kayeil

Prythe said:

Asmodron said:

As for another point, I honestly wouldnt mind replacing "Achaean" with "Human", simply for effect and lore reasons. What 'is' achaean? A jumble of languages altogether? I honestly dont know. What I do know is that Humans are the dominating race, are per lore, and there was even a time where the non-human races were shunned (also from lore). Seems only fitting that the main language on sapience would be Human. This also wouldnt harm anything or anyone, since they'd still have their 'universal' language. It would just have a different name.

It might make sense, but it always bothered me that Humans did not have their own language, while all other races did. Being Human I felt I was losing out. Would feel that way again if it reverted. Just because all "descended" from Humans doesn't mean they would have retained their ancestral tongue.

Isn't there a Human tutor in Delos?

Asmodron

Frederich said:

Humans have their own language. Also, humans were not the basis of creation.  Trolls, dwarves, tsolaa, and horkvali came before them. 

Not entirely correct.

Trolls are an off-spring of humans mating with the large mecenaries prospero brought from some world.

Tsol'aa were indeed the first mortal race. Dwarves, while they didnt have free will, did indeed exist before humans.

Horkval origins are a mystery and there isnt much light there. Whether they came before or after humans were born is a mystery. We only know they took part in the war of chaos but the timeframe that led up to that was pretty massive.


The reason humans are seen as the "basis" is because they inherited sapience by divine mandante, additionally they breed quickly and dominated the continent. It is why they are seen as the main figures.

Frederich

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/mIvm8E8e

Dwarven Mythos, for those interested.

As Phaestus knew, His children did not realize what awaited them. The
Tsol'aa were really the only other race they were familiar with and now
they were being asked to fight alongside creatures the likes they had
never seen. To them the insectoid Horkval, the four armed Scrula and the
fanatical Quisalis assassins they were to fight alongside were nearly as
bad as the crystalline Kx'Khrah and the undead forces of Prince Slith
they faced. When the dwarves had the chance, they gravitated toward
Prospero's mercenaries as the particulars of the construction of their
war engines intrigued the crafty dwarves and of course, desire for
material wealth was something with which the earth-delving race could
identify.

Dwarves had their free will prior to the War of Humanity (It just wasn't super keen yet), and Horkvali existed before the War of Humanity.

Asmodron

Frederich said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/mIvm8E8e

Dwarven Mythos, for those interested.

As Phaestus knew, His children did not realize what awaited them. The
Tsol'aa were really the only other race they were familiar with and now
they were being asked to fight alongside creatures the likes they had
never seen. To them the insectoid Horkval, the four armed Scrula and the
fanatical Quisalis assassins they were to fight alongside were nearly as
bad as the crystalline Kx'Khrah and the undead forces of Prince Slith
they faced. When the dwarves had the chance, they gravitated toward
Prospero's mercenaries as the particulars of the construction of their
war engines intrigued the crafty dwarves and of course, desire for
material wealth was something with which the earth-delving race could
identify.

Dwarves had their free will prior to the War of Humanity (It just wasn't super keen yet), and Horkvali existed before the War of Humanity.

I explained this to you in a message. You're confusing things.

The quote you put up is based on the actual war...in which the dwarves, as part of the army of Proteus, allied, on Nishnatoba, with the other forces. You seem to be quoting it as a means of saying they met all these races years before.

Secondly, no, the idea of the dwarves joining the army of Proteus was based on a trade. Here is a quote from the actual mythos showcasing it:

This is from the chapter "The Prophecy and the races"

Eventually, Phaestus too created a race called the Dwarves. The Dwarves were short, stocky creatures fond of metal, gem, and all products of the earth. Much to the consternation of Phaestus, his beloved Dwarves seemed to lack any sort of free will. Unable to make decisions for themselves, they were not much more than very complex machinery. Phaestus eventually found a solution to this, but we will return and tell this story later.

And this is from some chapters down, in "The Gods march to war"

Matsuhama brought the four-armed hordes of Scrula. Thoth was there with his snake-like Quisalis assassins. Phaestus, bargaining with Proteus, agreed to pledge his eternal loyalty in exchange for giving his beloved dwarves a soul. Proteus agreed and the dwarves marched to war

The entire basis of the war occurred from the birth of humans. It was the seed of hate that brought it all about. Humans were born much before Dwarves gained their own free will.


I know you are sticking to your guns from the Dwarf clan but you need to understand that the mythos comes first. Information in the dwarf clan are just add-ons to the story. They do not remake it.

Torinn

As long as we can understand denizens, I really like it.

Frederich

@Asmodron

For while Phaestus had discovered how to create a creature

with a mind and body that would allow them to experience and think about

the world in a way that would allow them to become sentient, it was

Proteus who knew how to imbue the being with the intangible quality that

made it occur. In return for Phaestus' eternal loyalty, Proteus gifted

the dwarves as the Smith had asked. For this sacrifice He made, the

dwarves would refer to Phaestus as Soulforger.

This is before the "War of Humanity" section in dwarven Mythos.

Phaestus was loyal to Proteus prior to the War of Humanity, which either indicates Dwarves gained free will before Humans were a thing, or that the Dwarven Highclan Mythos addition is 'wrong'.

So... It isn't really inherently explained.  Could ask @Makarios or @Nicola their thoughts tho

Krypton

The "Dwarven Mythos," like all other player-imagined lore/histories, is not OOC canonical at all.

Any official backstory is on https://www.achaea.com/history

Asmodron

Frederich said:

@Asmodron

For while Phaestus had discovered how to create a creature

with a mind and body that would allow them to experience and think about

the world in a way that would allow them to become sentient, it was

Proteus who knew how to imbue the being with the intangible quality that

made it occur. In return for Phaestus' eternal loyalty, Proteus gifted

the dwarves as the Smith had asked. For this sacrifice He made, the

dwarves would refer to Phaestus as Soulforger.

This is before the "War of Humanity" section in dwarven Mythos.

Phaestus was loyal to Proteus prior to the War of Humanity, which either indicates Dwarves gained free will before Humans were a thing, or that the Dwarven Highclan Mythos addition is 'wrong'.

So... It isn't really inherently explained.  Could ask Makarios or Nicola their thoughts tho

Yep. The example you're showing is basically a sumary of the basis of "dwarven creation".

- Phaestus made us
- Proteus gave us a soul
- Phaestus now referred to as Soulforger


Phaestus was a friend to Proteus before, but a pact was made between him and Proteus just -before- the battle on Nishnatoba took place. This pact was giving dwarves a soul. The battle itself was about humanity, which was the basis of the entire first war. So it basically went like this

- Tsol'aa exist
- Dwarves exist
- Humans born
- Several angry they were given inheritance of sapience
- Triumvirate start gathering forces
- Gods start gathering forces after realizing Triumvirate is preparing
- Proteus makes deal with Phaestus, in exchange for dwarves soul and them joining
- Fight happens
- Gods win (by a hair. Love you Khalas baby)


So like I said. Dwarves -did- exist before humans, but only got their 'souls' after humans were born.

Prythe

Kayeil said:

Prythe said:

Asmodron said:

As for another point, I honestly wouldnt mind replacing "Achaean" with "Human", simply for effect and lore reasons. What 'is' achaean? A jumble of languages altogether? I honestly dont know. What I do know is that Humans are the dominating race, are per lore, and there was even a time where the non-human races were shunned (also from lore). Seems only fitting that the main language on sapience would be Human. This also wouldnt harm anything or anyone, since they'd still have their 'universal' language. It would just have a different name.

It might make sense, but it always bothered me that Humans did not have their own language, while all other races did. Being Human I felt I was losing out. Would feel that way again if it reverted. Just because all "descended" from Humans doesn't mean they would have retained their ancestral tongue.

Isn't there a Human tutor in Delos?

I was harkening back to the early days, when we did not have a "racial language."

We do now, and I'm keeping it!

Kayeil

Prythe said:

Kayeil said:

Prythe said:

Asmodron said:

As for another point, I honestly wouldnt mind replacing "Achaean" with "Human", simply for effect and lore reasons. What 'is' achaean? A jumble of languages altogether? I honestly dont know. What I do know is that Humans are the dominating race, are per lore, and there was even a time where the non-human races were shunned (also from lore). Seems only fitting that the main language on sapience would be Human. This also wouldnt harm anything or anyone, since they'd still have their 'universal' language. It would just have a different name.

It might make sense, but it always bothered me that Humans did not have their own language, while all other races did. Being Human I felt I was losing out. Would feel that way again if it reverted. Just because all "descended" from Humans doesn't mean they would have retained their ancestral tongue.

Isn't there a Human tutor in Delos?

I was harkening back to the early days, when we did not have a "racial language."

We do now, and I'm keeping it!

Oh wow, had no idea. That's cool they finally got their own. Just bring back the dragon language for lesser please! lol.

Jonathin

Yeah, kind of annoying that I don't get to keep dragon in lesser.