Achaea Combat Explained..

Thororn

I hate to be this guy.. but I need some help.

I played just a bit of Imperian, and moved here after discovering a much larger playerbase. I have no past experience in text-based RPGs, so when people are talking about optimizing scripts for attacking I get very confused. I'm a programmer, so the act of writing scripts isn't intimidating to me at all, but I'm just trying to grasp what "scripts" do for you in combat related situations? I'm assuming it's similar to the autocuring system, except that it attacks your enemies based on certain variables?

If anyone could either A) Provide me a resource for learning Achaea PvP combat in general (how it works, what scripts do, why you use them, etc) or Explain to me the basics that I need to know to get on my feet, I'd be eternally grateful. I was unaware of the learning curve these text-based RPG games provide, but I'm finding it quite entertaining.

Nazihk

Scripting depends, really.

Some people use them to do everything. Their scripts track the afflictions their enemy has and choose their next afflictions they deliver without any input from the user. They track their own afflictions and they change their own healing automatically. Some people think that's cheap and lame and so they use minimal scripting, preferring to track all that stuff themselves.

Basically as long as you are not violating HELP AUTOMATION you can script practically anything you want, and in a text-based game that's practically everything. Once you actually try a few fights and experience it, you'll see what you want to script. 

Israyhl

First thing first - welcome to Achaea! I played Imperian, myself, for roughly a decade, and I can say I don't miss it. Especially as soon as I got into Achaea. 

Let's start with A: The best resource you will have to learn PvP is other PKers. You can either ask any question you may have on the forums in this thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/582/quick-combat-questions
or you can continue asking questions in this thread as they come up. Getting into combat is (fairly) easy to START - depending on your class - but most 'how-to' guides will change a little depending your class. Also! You can use the in-game curing system, something I know Imperian has, or you can use the popularized SVOF to get a jump start on a more robust curing system. Serverside has the speed, but SVOF helps with priorities, curing things against specific classes, and other utilities. It can be found here: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/3976/svof

Basics for combat!
- Step one, read the AB files for your class, get a feel for what they sound like they do, and if anything doesn't make sense, ask your House/City if anyone is proficient with said class. Ask that person or people your specific questions. If you use Mudlet, you can join the Mudlet clan in game or ask in the Mudlet thread here about scripting an offense for your specific class.  
- Step two, once you have aliases/scripts/triggers/buttons set up in any form or fashion and feel like trying it out, get someone into the arena and start beating on them. Ask them to fight back at some point so you can start learning more. Review fights/strategies to get an idea of why you are or are not winning. 
- Step three. Lose. Lose again. Die multiple times. Lose some more. ASK EVERY SINGLE TIME WHEN YOU LOSE WHAT YOU COULD DO TO IMPROVE. I cannot. CAN. NOT. stress that enough. The Learning Curve for learning combat in IRE is the lowest it has been ever. No more do you die to paralysis, or someone who knows how to hit you with anorexia, paralysis, prone, and voyria. Hell, just voyria.

Combat is more of an art form than just about anything in IRE. But, like any art form, it takes time and effort and a lot of fucked up pieces of shit before you create a masterpiece. But thankfully, you have a lot of HELPFUL critics who will guide you in your brush stroke (or focus/shutter speed if you're the photograph type) and if you want to get better, people will help you get there.

I know this is a bit long-winded, so I'll add a tl;dr version.

Read up on your class, get a feel for how you THINK it should work, ask people who know how to fight IG or here, and then get your ass kicked till one day you manage to wreck someone's face. 

Oh, and have FUN learning to roflstomp the plebs. 

Iniar

Broad brushes;

You will probably work through 2-4 iterations of your system/scripts as you learn combat.

I would start by learning what the kill-path for your class is.

Miniaturise input commands via scripts/macros.

Practice it.

Write code to modify (and unmodify) curing against the common things (used by all fighters) that will stop you from achieving that kill path.

Practice it.

Figure out strategic bypasses / side-steps for your preferred kill-path into any other kill-path. Miniaturise it via scripts/macros.

Practice it.

Figure out against specific foes what their kill-paths do to lock down your routes; figure out a reasonable counter-play. Miniaturise it via scripts/macros. Make sure you have an ON/OFF switch.

Practice it.

Figure out what you want to do against multiple opponents.

Write scripts to reduce that complexity as desired.

Practice it.

Iterate.

Kenway

My strategy for learning combat has always been:

Beat self against obstacles until an obstacle wins.

Tweak things and continue flinging self at obstacle till I win.

Do the new thing a bunch till I always win.

Find new obstacle.

It's not the best or most efficient method but it's mine and I enjoy it. Which is actually where I'm gonna make my point about what I find to be the biggest factor in doing well in pvp: comfort. Fuck what anyone else says is best, figure out a way to play that -feels- right. The more comfortable you are with your own systems the more leftover power your brain will have to think about how to be kicking ass. The best prios and most efficient auto afflicting won't save you from anyone if you don't feel at home with them.

Exelethril

I think attitude plays a big role. Some ppl refuse to fight because they're afraid of losing/want to protect their ego. No point in caring about losing that much to the point of avoiding fights because of the opinions of others in a small niche game like this

The best way to learn is to consistently fight stronger opponents and study what and why they do certain things from a mechanics perspective then tweak ur defense/offense.

Also, adapt and change your playstyle. Example : I used to be really annoyed at afftracking 2-3 years ago, especially with the A-team/occies so I adopted it within my offense instead of continuously whining about it, whenever I lose to it.

Sobriquet

Personally, I know my limits though. I had great momentum when I picked up 2H, then lost to @Exelethril and his scripts and realised I just didn't have the time required to combat that kind of fighting. So I just ignore combat against certain people and classes now because it's just no fun to play against. I reiterate though, that's a personal limitation on my own time and scripting ability, not the game. 

Austere

Sobriquet said:

Personally, I know my limits though. I had great momentum when I picked up 2H, then lost to @Exelethril and his scripts and realised I just didn't have the time required to combat that kind of fighting. So I just ignore combat against certain people and classes now because it's just no fun to play against. I reiterate though, that's a personal limitation on my own time and scripting ability, not the game. 

I might be rare, but as someone with scripting in their offense, I'm all for taking off the gloves and fighting no system anytime you want. . 

Ryzeth

Just play Depthswalker, and never lose against anyone ever.
[spoiler] At least that's how Exxia thinks the class works. [/spoiler]

Cooper

DW is the strongest 'push one button and win against 90% of Achaea' classes and has extreme utility, damage, afflictions, and escape. It's the best class in the game by a very large margin right now.

He's not wrong to think it's OP.

Amranu

Just play Shaman and never lose against Depthswalker ever*

*Except for against Farrah

Lylith

Slightly overtuned maybe, but not overpowered. You can go a long way with healing well, knowing when/how to run and not slacking on your own offence. Of course, artefacts skew the balance more, but again, it's probably nothing you can't creatively work around. Someone playing something that can setup on limbs and then escape like, I don't know, Infernal, should be complaining far less than those whom have to remain in-room certaintly.

Ryzeth

Cooper said:

It's the best class in the game by a very large margin right now.

Mak disagrees. 

He's not wrong to think it's OP.

With this, too. Plenty can beat it; if you're dying to 'one button pressing' I can guarantee you're doing things horrifically wrong.

Amranu said:

Just play Shaman and never lose against Depthswalker ever*

*Except for against Farrah

I admittedly miss Shaman, they got some nice things since I switched away from it... Like getting para relapse back

Ryzeth

Missed edit, but basically what Lylith said. Its damage could definitely use some looking into (and I've argued such since the class's inception), especially at the higher end of the artifact spectrum. The rest of it is largely fine.

Driden

Ryzeth said:

Missed edit, but basically what Lylith said. Its damage could definitely use some looking into (and I've argued such since the class's inception), especially at the higher end of the artifact spectrum. The rest of it is largely fine.

Which class lead is yours?

Driden

Amranu said:

Just play Shaman and never lose against Depthswalker ever*

*Except for against Farrah

You forgot me buddy

Driden

Cooper said:

DW is the strongest 'push one button and win against 90% of Achaea' classes and has extreme utility, damage, afflictions, and escape. It's the best class in the game by a very large margin right now.

He's not wrong to think it's OP.

Then why do I have fifty billion macros! I'm doing something wrong. 

Ahmet

Cooper said:

DW is the strongest 'push one button and win against 90% of Achaea' classes and has extreme utility, damage, afflictions, and escape. It's the best class in the game by a very large margin right now.

He's not wrong to think it's OP.

It's only this if you have artefacts

Farrah

There is no "best class in the game." So many different strengths and weaknesses.

For one, Depthswalker is a momentum class, and prep always has a pretty strong advantage against that. It's also missing a strong ranged attack and strong AoE (its range and AoE are very slow and not going to do much on their own for those particular purposes). It can't match something like retardation or prop in terms of disabling a whole group at once, though it complements those well with vortex and litany.

It is strong in a lot of areas, though.

Aerek

I don't think DW is OP. I do think it's a lot easier to be effective than other classes. The rest of us have to track afflictions and micromanage our attacks to accomplish the sort of no-waste affliction delivery that the Depthswalker attunements do for you automatically, for example. "1 button" is always an exaggeration, but I think it's fairly objective to say that DW doesn't have to work nearly as hard to be effective as a lot of other classes do.

I don't necessarily think this is bad. It's nice to see a class that essentially has a lower skill floor so that your average player can actually throw down in serious combat without needing a lot of advanced scripting, etc to compete, but it still is slightly frustrating when you're getting burned down by straight Degen or Retribution loops while Preempted, and it feels like the DW could almost be asleep at the wheel and still kill you.

Cailan

Fight DWs like you fight jesters. 

Antonius

Cailan said:

Fight DWs like you fight jesters. 

So what you're saying is don't fight Depthswalkers?

Exelethril

Sobriquet said:

Personally, I know my limits though. I had great momentum when I picked up 2H, then lost to @Exelethril and his scripts and realised I just didn't have the time required to combat that kind of fighting. So I just ignore combat against certain people and classes now because it's just no fun to play against. I reiterate though, that's a personal limitation on my own time and scripting ability, not the game. 

You don't actually need any scripting ability to play 2H at max potential though. Kenway has a parry/fracture tracker, I think.

You could have beaten me if you worked on your offense.

Sobriquet

That last line pisses me off no end in this game. 

I simply don't have the time. I don't have the time to play, to code, to script, to learn every single prio change for every class and every situation I might find myself in. 

"You could beat me if you worked on your offence" if the least helpful thing anyone could ever say. 

You blitzed me in 2 spars, and I think I actually landed a blow around 6 times in total. I have a limb counter, I have a fracture counter, what I don't have is the hours needed to keep fighting people like you without getting anything from it other than frustration. The only thing I learned from fighting you is that I don't want to again, not because it's you, but because I am not able to put the effort in required to even stand a chance.

Exelethril

Dude, you're playing a damage momentum class that loops lethargy/clumsiness plus hugalaz runeblade/ground rune. If I hit your parry or rebounding once or twice I'm dead.

Driden

Aerek said:

I don't think DW is OP. I do think it's a lot easier to be effective than other classes. The rest of us have to track afflictions and micromanage our attacks to accomplish the sort of no-waste affliction delivery that the Depthswalker attunements do for you automatically, for example. "1 button" is always an exaggeration, but I think it's fairly objective to say that DW doesn't have to work nearly as hard to be effective as a lot of other classes do.

I don't necessarily think this is bad. It's nice to see a class that essentially has a lower skill floor so that your average player can actually throw down in serious combat without needing a lot of advanced scripting, etc to compete, but it still is slightly frustrating when you're getting burned down by straight Degen or Retribution loops while Preempted, and it feels like the DW could almost be asleep at the wheel and still kill you.

I agree with this. Definitely a lot easier than serpent. But a lot of people who have an issue with the class still don't understand what the class does. As a prep class there's a natural advantage over dw that is pretty sick. 

Mizik

DW is obviously overpowered. But it's new release. Just have fun with it.

SNB unstoppable finisher is ludicrous. I've never had so many easy, guaranteed kills.

Bann

@Sobriquet I feel like you're making things more complicated than they have to be. I have -plenty- of time to sit and study and code all the things...but I don't. I've had tri-trans Shaman for like a week now, and all I have is a couple of aliases for team fighting. Usually on the side, though, I'll have Sublime open and I might script in a function once every day or two. I have like 3-4 for Shaman right now, except I haven't taken the time to weave them into an offense. I like to take my time on things like that. Rather bash some, too. Or roleplay. I l do like to roleplay. Takes me maybe 10 minutes to type one out if I'm trying to make it fit into someone else's code, bit less if it's something me-specific.

@Exelethril is right, though. 2h is probably more training-wheels than Depthswalker is. I mean look at @Driden. He went from not being able to kill me while I bashed as a Serpent to being able to compete with the likes of @Farrah. That's some serious fucking training wheels. 2h Runie is worse than that, in terms of going from being bad to being competitive. Though in comment to Exe, if you hit parry as a 2h you're doing something very, very wrong

For those who don't know, Sublime is a text editor program. Pretty sweet. I use it for coding and stuff like that. Have it set up in pretty halloween colours too, so it's like a black background with some orange text and some green text and commented out stuff is this pretty purple.

Farrah

Not to put Driden down or anything, but I'm not sure how you define being able to compete with me. He killed me once when I was in monk (and I'm a newbie monk) then refused to finish another fight with me when I started playing defensive, which monk has to do.

If you're going to talk about DW's omg OPness, that's not a good example!

Omor

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Driden

Farrah said:

Not to put Driden down or anything, but I'm not sure how you define being able to compete with me. He killed me once when I was in monk (and I'm a newbie monk) then refused to finish another fight with me when I started playing defensive, which monk has to do.

If you're going to talk about DW's omg OPness, that's not a good example!

I was trying to win an egg hunt!!!!!! Just challenge me to a duel if you wanna fight!