Achaea Combat Explained..

Mizik

Omor said:

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Do you define this as being out of the room, not allowing yourself to be hit by DW attacks?

Armali

I've killed @Farrah, @Krizal, @Omor, and @Karren in dragon of all classes, and I've done it in alchemist as well. I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing too OP about it as long as you know how it works and turtle appropriately, as is usually the case with most mo classes. @Karren has ripped through @Driden as DWC vs. DW. @Calira goes through them no-contest. as Occultist.

Omor

Mizik said:

Omor said:

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Do you define this as being out of the room, not allowing yourself to be hit by DW attacks?

Armali said:

I've killed @Farrah, @Krizal, @Omor, and @Karren in dragon of all classes, and I've done it in alchemist as well. I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing too OP about it as long as you know how it works and turtle appropriately, as is usually the case with most mo classes. @Karren has ripped through @Driden as DWC vs. DW. @Calira goes through them no-contest. as Occultist.

@Mizik See Armali's post.

Coamenel

Bann said:

@Sobriquet I feel like you're making things more complicated than they have to be. I have -plenty- of time to sit and study and code all the things...but I don't. I've had tri-trans Shaman for like a week now, and all I have is a couple of aliases for team fighting. Usually on the side, though, I'll have Sublime open and I might script in a function once every day or two. I have like 3-4 for Shaman right now, except I haven't taken the time to weave them into an offense. I like to take my time on things like that. Rather bash some, too. Or roleplay. I l do like to roleplay. Takes me maybe 10 minutes to type one out if I'm trying to make it fit into someone else's code, bit less if it's something me-specific.

@Exelethril is right, though. 2h is probably more training-wheels than Depthswalker is. I mean look at @Driden. He went from not being able to kill me while I bashed as a Serpent to being able to compete with the likes of @Farrah. That's some serious fucking training wheels. 2h Runie is worse than that, in terms of going from being bad to being competitive. Though in comment to Exe, if you hit parry as a 2h you're doing something very, very wrong

For those who don't know, Sublime is a text editor program. Pretty sweet. I use it for coding and stuff like that. Have it set up in pretty halloween colours too, so it's like a black background with some orange text and some green text and commented out stuff is this pretty purple.

I refuse to use anything but Sublime to code in. If Sublime would be an achaean class, we wouldn't be claiming DW to be the OP class of the game!

Driden

Bann said:

@Sobriquet I feel like you're making things more complicated than they have to be. I have -plenty- of time to sit and study and code all the things...but I don't. I've had tri-trans Shaman for like a week now, and all I have is a couple of aliases for team fighting. Usually on the side, though, I'll have Sublime open and I might script in a function once every day or two. I have like 3-4 for Shaman right now, except I haven't taken the time to weave them into an offense. I like to take my time on things like that. Rather bash some, too. Or roleplay. I l do like to roleplay. Takes me maybe 10 minutes to type one out if I'm trying to make it fit into someone else's code, bit less if it's something me-specific.

@Exelethril is right, though. 2h is probably more training-wheels than Depthswalker is. I mean look at @Driden. He went from not being able to kill me while I bashed as a Serpent to being able to compete with the likes of @Farrah. That's some serious fucking training wheels. 2h Runie is worse than that, in terms of going from being bad to being competitive. Though in comment to Exe, if you hit parry as a 2h you're doing something very, very wrong

For those who don't know, Sublime is a text editor program. Pretty sweet. I use it for coding and stuff like that. Have it set up in pretty halloween colours too, so it's like a black background with some orange text and some green text and commented out stuff is this pretty purple.

Also been playing the game for six years. I know how combat works. Never been a bad ass or anything. I couldn't do serpent anymore because of my injury. It requires precise timing and being able to select different combinations of venoms based on your herb eats between my 1.7 second databs. Yeah I couldn't do serpent anymore. So yeah I'm not a noncom who just picked up depths walker. 

Farrah

Driden said:

Farrah said:

Not to put Driden down or anything, but I'm not sure how you define being able to compete with me. He killed me once when I was in monk (and I'm a newbie monk) then refused to finish another fight with me when I started playing defensive, which monk has to do.

If you're going to talk about DW's omg OPness, that's not a good example!

I was trying to win an egg hunt!!!!!! Just challenge me to a duel if you wanna fight!

Like I said, wasn't an attack on you. Just a response to Bann's remark! You didn't sound like you wanted to duel after the egg hunt based on your tells.

Farrah

Armali said:

I've killed @Farrah, @Krizal, @Omor, and @Karren in dragon of all classes, and I've done it in alchemist as well. I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing too OP about it as long as you know how it works and turtle appropriately, as is usually the case with most mo classes. @Karren has ripped through @Driden as DWC vs. DW. @Calira goes through them no-contest. as Occultist.

Judging a class based on one of the first fights after release also isn't a very good indicator, to be fair. I had a lot to setup still (like Heila) and won after I did. Though, that was dragon. DW v alchie would be rougher for me, I think.

Armali

Good thing I judged it on a bunch of fights subsequent to it, too.

In the fight you won, it was my fault for sticking to mana prios when I should've swapped to health prio and disengaged when the affs would've put me dangerously close to a degen damage burst -> mutilate. It could've gone other way, but more to the point, it illustrates well that /if you know what you're doing and what they're doing/, the class can be handled.

Omor

@Armali kicked my ass fair and square.

Driden

Farrah said:

Driden said:

Farrah said:

Not to put Driden down or anything, but I'm not sure how you define being able to compete with me. He killed me once when I was in monk (and I'm a newbie monk) then refused to finish another fight with me when I started playing defensive, which monk has to do.

If you're going to talk about DW's omg OPness, that's not a good example!

I was trying to win an egg hunt!!!!!! Just challenge me to a duel if you wanna fight!

Like I said, wasn't an attack on you. Just a response to Bann's remark! You didn't sound like you wanted to duel after the egg hunt based on your tells.

No not after that. I figured you were gonna leave me alone after you died the first time. I just wanted to collect eggs. It annoyed me you kept on me and you didn't even want eggs. But I fight just about anyone any time. 

Jhui

armali fights? I thought he just played the forums

Mizik

Omor said:

Mizik said:

Omor said:

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Do you define this as being out of the room, not allowing yourself to be hit by DW attacks?

Armali said:

I've killed @Farrah, @Krizal, @Omor, and @Karren in dragon of all classes, and I've done it in alchemist as well. I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing too OP about it as long as you know how it works and turtle appropriately, as is usually the case with most mo classes. @Karren has ripped through @Driden as DWC vs. DW. @Calira goes through them no-contest. as Occultist.

@Mizik See Armali's post.

Dragon slowprep? That's a 'yes' to my question.

Lyrin

I love how a thread about "Explain Achaean Combat" has descended into a discussion of which class is OP, whether or not the amount of scripting necessary is ok and who can/cant beat other people.    Couldn't give a clearer example of hot button issues in achaean combat if you tried

Xaden

Lyrin said:

I love how a thread about "Explain Achaean Combat" has descended into a discussion of which class is OP, whether or not the amount of scripting necessary is ok and who can/cant beat other people.    Couldn't explain the combat landscape any more clearly if you tried

Now we just need a good old fashioned numbers argument and we've got bingo

Aegoth

We should start with that ridiculous crusade...

Xaden

Aegoth said:

We should start with that ridiculous crusade...

Last night? That was the tits! If everyone could agree to back the fuck off everyone's shrines we could have one everyday!

Nazihk

Armali said:

I should've ... disengaged when the affs would've put me dangerously close to a degen damage burst -> mutilate

This means that your answer to "Do you define this as being out of the room, not allowing yourself to be hit by DW attacks?" is "Yes".

Armali

I interpreted @Mizik's statement as being, "Don't fight them at all."

Sarathai

Xaden said:

Aegoth said:

We should start with that ridiculous crusade...

Last night? That was the tits! If everyone could agree to back the fuck off everyone's shrines we could have one everyday!

Resolutions are actively warring with crusade fun.

Xaden

Sarathai said:

Xaden said:

Aegoth said:

We should start with that ridiculous crusade...

Last night? That was the tits! If everyone could agree to back the fuck off everyone's shrines we could have one everyday!

Resolutions are actively warring with crusade fun.

I know Makes me sad.

Elowin

Defense against DW srsly is 'run the fuck away,' though. Sorry y'all.


Defense against DW srsly is 'trans philosophy, buy health artifacts and run the fuck away,' though. Sorry y'all.

Kenway

Elowin said:

Defense against DW srsly is 'run the fuck away,' though. Sorry y'all.


Defense against DW srsly is 'trans philosophy, buy health artifacts and run the fuck away,' though. Sorry y'all.

#RingOfFlying

Kenway

Should expand more than one hashtag: preempt doesn't follow flight so fly and if they fly too, land/dash will get you away 100% of the time. Highlight the fuck out of when they get your shadow cause that means you need to be ready for a burst and if you have some way to disrupt their momentum or apply yours in a burst, use it (2h conveniently gets these both as one action ie break leg upset overhand) If you're a prep class, make them suffer through slow prep hell until they class change.

Kenway

@Exelethril I'd like to point out that the only advantage gained from tracking fractures or parry is knowing that info -slightly- before you can see it which doesn't matter a whole lot on 3s balances for average players I'd say. It's just a convenient way to put all that info in one place without having it take up like seven lines.

The OTHER benefit is my amazing limb tracker that can really help step your 2h game to the next level! /shamelesspluglookinmysignature
But seriously monks send me some break point data pls.

Nazihk

Ring of Flying is retarded and it needs to be nerfed. 

If that means momentum classes have to be nerfed as well, then so be it. Combat should not be balanced around this idea that "buy a 400cr artifact and spam fly literally every 2 seconds" is a valid countermeasure.

Kenway

Agreed by most if not all, but in the interrum till things change where were talking about current counterplay, it is the prime solution.

Proficy

Mizik said:

DW is obviously overpowered. But it's new release. Just have fun with it.

SNB unstoppable finisher is ludicrous. I've never had so many easy, guaranteed kills.

So glad someone else said it... been literally crying about it for awhile. Getting the "im not handling it right" answer.

And for the record DW is by far the easiest, most op class in game right now... turns zeros into heros.  But like someone said earlier, its still new... should be getting its needed tweeks over time.

Proficy

Omor said:

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Being able to turtle and "survive" someone isnt fighting them... any class (besides snb) you can turtle against and live... you should be able to fight back and have a chance. A legitimate chance... not a rng chance or a .001 second window type of chance

Xaden

Proficy said:

Omor said:

If you know how to defend against DW, there is nothing OP about them in 1v1.

Being able to turtle and "survive" someone isnt fighting them... any class (besides snb) you can turtle against and live... you should be able to fight back and have a chance. A legitimate chance... not a rng chance or a .001 second window type of chance

I dunno man. I'm still dying to them, but every time i do I can see where I could have survived it. Any prep class should really be ok if you're smart about it (and given you're much better DWC than I am you know this already)

Aegoth

I have 0 problems ripping apart DW 1v1. Group combat is just a mess though, and whenever I see Farrah in DW and her group target me, I just go hands off keyboard