Why do you play your class?

Vadik

Aerek said:

But I should probably stop hijacking this thread.

No, no please continue. This is the most interesting debate I've read on this forum.

Batista

Every time I go to respond to something, @Aerek has already taken the words right out of my mouth.

Well said, man. Everything you've said is spot on, and it makes me sad that we never had the opportunity to be wicked chivalrous together.

Trey

Batista said:

Every time I go to respond to something, @Aerek has already taken the words right out of my mouth.

Well said, man. Everything you've said is spot on, and it makes me sad that we never had the opportunity to be wicked chivalrous together.

THERE'S STILL HOPE.

Seriously though, @Aerek is out in Chattanooga, you're not -too- far away and I'm only 2 hours or so. A meeting of blades, minds and scotch (and bourbon, rum, and a tequila) needs to happen.

Batista

Trey said:

Batista said:

Every time I go to respond to something, @Aerek has already taken the words right out of my mouth.

Well said, man. Everything you've said is spot on, and it makes me sad that we never had the opportunity to be wicked chivalrous together.

THERE'S STILL HOPE.

Seriously though, @Aerek is out in Chattanooga, you're not -too- far away and I'm only 2 hours or so. A meeting of blades, minds and scotch (and bourbon, rum, and a tequila) needs to happen.

Wait, really?

Holy crap. You guys can help me knock back this Macallan.

Batista

In case it hasn't been shared before, I feel like this is exactly what Achaean Knighthood kinda is/was:

Anedhel

Re: Knighthood, I'll just say this!

People playing it badly isn't a compelling reason against a concept. That argument can be made for basically everything. There've been gentle(ish) Mhaldorians, unjust Miramans, landlubber Nerai, etc. Organizations in Achaea have the (mis)fortune of having both the privilege and burden of self-policing, so if there are/were bad knights around, it's the policing body's fault, and not the concept's. Probably people should've been more careful about who was being knighted!

I get why people WANTED to keep their old Shallamese knight titles (for memories, for how hard they worked to get 'em, for identity, etc.), but I don't really understand the rationale. Knights are supposed to serve a certain person/organization, and if that organization is at the bottom of the sea, then I don't really know why they want to, but that's fine. People can play whatever they want.

Wouldn't be opposed to Targossian knighthood, or worldwide knighthood!

Nazihk

Aodfionn said:

Targ came down hard on anything that remotely resembled knighthood. Imo, that was a huge shame, because there is definitely room for people who want to play the more honorable 'noble service to Good' role.

Yeah, but that room happens to be in Cyrene imo. 

Personally, I love that Targossas is trying to avoid Knightly Honor Codes and all the rest of the trappings of the generic Paladin. That kind of thing is why the "Good' organizations in so many games end up feeling like copies of each other. 

A big part of Targossas' appeal to me is the fact that they are zealous militaristic good. Their fight is a fight to save Creation itself. That takes precedence to everything. It's not a tournament, it's not a game, and any Targossan that swears to an honor code that could require them to hold back when fighting against the enemies of Creation is, by definition, not a model citizen. 

I can see an organized multi-city knighthood benefiting other organizations, sure. But it just doesn't strike me as a very Targossan thing. There are five other cities in the world. Three of them have ideologies that Targossans have identified as being threats to Creation itself. One of the remaining two has identified Targossas as a threat to Nature. They have friendly relations with exactly one city in the world, but most of the opinions I hear about that city are generally contemptuous; Cyrene is where you go when you're too cowardly to pick a side in the war to save Creation. How can they come to a mutual honor code with those organizations that is meaningful and impactful while not also being a complete mockery of what they stand for?

I wouldn't object to a purely Targossan knighthood, as that only has to fit Targossan ideals. I also wouldn't object to a global knighthood that only applies to 1v1 and thusly is nothing more than a glorified dueling club that doesn't affect actual city military actions. But I just don't see a place in Targossas for a global knighthood whose tenets would restrict the military actions of Targossan members.

Anedhel

I'm happy with the way things are, but I wouldn't be opposed to a worldwide high clan, or something.

The problem comes with binding requirements and an inherent allegiance, of course. So it'd take a lot of finnagling, but with the right heads together, it could be done, I think, in a way that doesn't manacle characters!

Tahquil

From what I touched on with the knight work Aerek was making everyone in the organisation to be beholden to the same code of honour and the same morality. But instead wanted their knights to be those in their factions which people should look up to as examples of 'proper' behaviour. Gentlemen of the city that young man want to grow up to be and young women to boink.

Anedhel

That's heteronormative! Why can't young women want to be knights, and young men boink them?

Mishgul

I mean, at the end of the day, what matters is that no one is sticking their butt in it hard enough, long enough, or inclusively enough for people to care about it.

Atalkez

I still want my Sir title, ngl.

Batista

Anedhel said:

That's heteronormative! Why can't young women want to be knights, and young men boink them?

We practice "Don't Ask, Don't 'Disembowel'"

Leinad

Aerek said:

@Aodfionn Targossas ruled they didn't want Knighthood, Mhaldor and Eluesis' orders wanted to keep it class-pure, Hashan and Cyrene's orders wanted to let all classes in. A compromise was eventually pounded out between the member orders, and a charter defining and standardizing Knighthood was written with input from all four. When it came time for implementation, Cyrene's Senate overruled the Lady of the Spire and surgically altered the charter so it was essentially un-enforceable and meaningless.

I resigned after that, so I couldn't tell you where it went from there. There was never a lot of interest in it, class RP declining and all, so it's probably just languishing waiting for someone to care about it.

So, that's what I missed while my character slumbered.  Now, I have a better understanding on how events unfolded.

Achilles

Most of what has been discussed is true, some minor things I feel obligated to comment on since I was the last HL of the Templars.

Targossas wasn't even formally a thing when the decision was made to discontinue the knight program, the "Good" faction was homeless for almost 6 RL months and didn't get houses for another 6 months, so there was an absence of a good 12 months of any formal organizations.  It ultimately served its purpose as "Good" finally rid of the lazy pacifists in the faction who wanted to sit around and RP being a drunk or retired sword etc.  Targossas was under 100 citizens for a quite awhile, there certainly wasn't a population to support a separate org and the philosophical differences from the city and bloodsworn also made it a distraction to a new city.

Knighthood as a whole is a great sub-organization to have, the Templars were (sorry other Shallam houses) the only organization that was functioning at the time of Shallam's demise with active leadership, a pipeline of new advancement driven prospects, huge credit and gold reserves and a clear mission.  I would OOCly and ICly support re-launching Knighthood but not at the house or city level but at an order level, giving each patron their own requirements for Knighthood.  The knight titles would be based on the reputation of the order itself and would allow those orders the ability to define honor in their own way.  Also, just from my observation people rarely leave orders nearly at the same rate they leave cities and houses which was a problem for people transferring between knight houses in the past (the templars had a special program for Maldaathi converts, Warden converts didn't have to do much)

Kenway

Batista said:

Anedhel said:

That's heteronormative! Why can't young women want to be knights, and young men boink them?

We practice "Don't Ask, Don't 'Disembowel'"

<insert impale/implant/engage/lunge/hands joke here>

Anedhel

Kenway said:

Batista said:

Anedhel said:

That's heteronormative! Why can't young women want to be knights, and young men boink them?

We practice "Don't Ask, Don't 'Disembowel'"

<insert impale/implant/engage/lunge/hands joke here>

You forgot the part about doing so furiously.