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Factional Classes

24

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  • Borran
    Borran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm not suggesting that we allow everybody to be any factional class they want. I just wanted to get everyone's hypothetical opinion to see how the general populace feels about it. But at least we have your opinion.

    Leonas
  • Minifie
    Minifie Member Posts: 3,209 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    Ailea said:
    I really dislike the wording on this topic. I would not be absolutely devastated however I would not be happy. As someone who has played Achaea for well over 10 years now I have seen a lot of bizarreness. There are pros and cons to having factional classes and everyone having access to it. Remember how everyone had access to Sentinel, Sylvan, Druid and overharvesting was a problem? Yeah I do. 

    From a mechanics perspective with how the faction classes are today, I do not think this is that possible overall. Achaea has evolved over the years and becoming less alliance based and more "we stand on our own, with our own". 

    It wouldn't make much sense for a Necromancer to be in Targossas as the skill necromancey was developed by Sartan and his gift basically for those that wish to follow Evil beginning with the Infernals. 

    I think that the appeal of like an Evil druid or Good Sentinel etc. May be plausible, but still I think it comes down to really the development that not just the factional classes, but the cities and their adaption to the changes of classes over the years. 

    I think that things are fine as they are, but I don't think that there needs to be any more factional classes introduced. 
    Apostates were never allowed in shallam, and would never be in Targossas. Unlocking classes still requires limitations that no one would expect to change. Honestly I'm fine with the current situation, but I wonder how frequently there are city hoppers just to nab the new hotness classes. I think I would have enjoyed current mechanics with slightly looser restrictions on the classes, but I still prefer the idea of a "rogue" community available to those who wish to be any class with a minor in game aesthetical community. 
  • Borran
    Borran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    It is interesting that it appears those who have the factional classes would be devastated if everyone could be their class while those who do NOT have the factional classes don't seem to mind if they were opened to others.

  • Calira
    Calira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I play a factional class and would not mind if the class was open to others.
    Obviously having factional classes tied to their factions by RP is great. I would be far happier with re-skinned neutral versions of each factional class that were identical in terms of mechanics, but distinct in terms of RP
    ShirszaeBann
  • Cooper
    Cooper Member Posts: 5,783 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I support unfactionalizing classes strictly because I want to be S&B Paladin and have all of the OP forestal classes.

    Shayde
  • Nazihk
    Nazihk Member Posts: 993 @ - Epic Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would be devastated if these classes were open to others.
    I don't care about the RP much, I just like having a few factional classes to mix things up in fights and keep everything from being mirror matches.
  • Asmodron
    Asmodron Member Posts: 3,145 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2017
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    Aodfionn said:
    A hearty "fuck no" to all of the ideas put forth in this thread so far. 

    We tried the 'total freedom' of priests in all the cities. 

    We tried having forestals in cities. 

    We tried letting everyone be the special snowflake. 

    We tried allowing Team Blue and Team Red to regulate themselves.

    None of these things worked. Most of these things failed miserably. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm pretty glad that we no longer have Hashani Priests, Eleusian Occultists and Targossian forestals.


    This isnt exactly true. If anything the orgs that were able to shut down on factional classes being misused did (occultists aside, but that is a long story). Excoms were being handed out quite freely for those that did actions against 'The Light', as well as the same for those that did actions against "Sartan/evil". It is when these classes became mechanically factionalized that the old excom mechanic was almost rarely used. The only time you need to Excom these days are for rogues.


    The only constant complaints given at the time were by the Occultists (though in truth was near impossible to have an occultist fighting against chaos...) and forestrals (and even forestrals could be nature enemied if they assisted to try and harm nature).

    I dont see where it all went to hell...
  • Sarathai
    Sarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I play a factional class and would be devastated if the class were open to everyone.
    Asmodron said:
    and forestrals (and even forestrals could be nature enemied if they assisted to try and harm nature).
    Being forest enemied is functionally akin to excom/anathema for a forestal class, since in addition to the damage you get in forest/jungle areas, if you have Groves you cannot regain sunlight and if you have Woodlore you cannot summon creatures.

    It doesn't generally get used for that purpose (at least not nowadays), but it did still do it, last time I checked. Eleusis/High Warden hasn't done what Mhaldor and Targossas have in terms of "all forestals come here or lose your skills" though.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • Tydas
    Tydas Member Posts: 232 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    Forestal classes don't need a "come home" thing, really. It was basically sort of done during the whole alchemist reveal, and there are a bare handful of people of forestal class left in cities. Only issue would be rogues, but it still isn't quite factional like Devotion and Necromancy, and now Occultism, is.
    Asmodron
  • Asmodron
    Asmodron Member Posts: 3,145 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    Exactly. The idea of forestrals were players that choose to manipulate the energy in nature. It was more based on a pool of power that has always been there and in a way always been at our fingertips. It was more basic in nature (in a good way), which is why I liked the idea behind it. Linking it to Eleusis just felt wrong, especially because Eleusis is not the central power of nature, they are just a group of individuals that choose to live by and inhabit nature, and are not even loved by all others that do so (see Sparrow's Rest).
    LiyaneTukio
  • Calyn
    Calyn Member Posts: 111 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I play a factional class and would not mind if the class was open to others.
    I want more people to play Occultist so that they can enjoy the feeling of being punched in the gut by classleads on a regular basis.
    LiyaneGilt
  • Puxi
    Puxi Member Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    You do realize that is because they are trying to balance the class, right?
  • Calyn
    Calyn Member Posts: 111 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I play a factional class and would not mind if the class was open to others.
    It's mostly tongue in cheek.
    Liyane
  • Rangor
    Rangor Member Posts: 3,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I play a factional class and would be devastated if the class were open to everyone.
    I like factional classes for the lore and RP. For combat balancing I like that Makarios is making the unique "functions" that have been limited to a few cities only, now is available to everyone in new classes. See depthswalker beckon.
    image
    BorranExelethrilLiyane
  • Kenway
    Kenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sentinel / Infernal is the dream

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • Marisella
    Marisella Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2017
    Asmodron said:
    Exactly. The idea of forestrals were players that choose to manipulate the energy in nature. It was more based on a pool of power that has always been there and in a way always been at our fingertips. It was more basic in nature (in a good way), which is why I liked the idea behind it. Linking it to Eleusis just felt wrong, especially because Eleusis is not the central power of nature, they are just a group of individuals that choose to live by and inhabit nature, and are not even loved by all others that do so (see Sparrow's Rest).
    I think that linking forestals to Eleusis (when the Alchemist class was released) helped to stabilise the concept of what they are supposed to be in the eyes of current Eleusis, individuals who respect the tools that nature armed them with, who are to fight for her. It feels wrong that forestals were previously able to live freely in the comfort of a city, which sort of goes against the whole concept of fighting for nature. Esos in the Northreach forest has a good story about forestalls who get too comfortable in cities.

    To my understanding, Sparrow's Rest is a community formed of elder druids who believe the way that Eleusis was leading itself was too weak, or rather, they were too friendly and accepting of those who would still maintain ties to people who manipulate nature for their own benefit.
  • Quisse
    Quisse Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    I used to care WAY more about the whole factional class, purity etc etc, but the longer I play, the less important this seems to me, particularly when it comes to people who want to play rogues.

    I feel like, also, that Achaea seems to be moving away from the hard-line factional mechanics that infringe on people's freedom to play how they like. Certainly from ten years ago to now, things are much kinder and gentler in general. I'm sure many remember the days of guilds, pre-autoclass, when the power to keep your class was contingent on reaching GR3. 

    That said...this is all hypothetical and entirely unlikely, so it doesn't matter much. I don't mind making a new character so I can play factional classes, but I'd definitely not complain if this wasn't necessary. 
    SirrionBade
  • Skye
    Skye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I just voted to see the results.
    @Mindshell

    Isn't that an idea carried over from the guild days when we had to work to gain class? As opposed to going over to Certimene and then POOF you're a wizard, Harry now a priest.



    Prythe
  • Mindshell
    Mindshell Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I play a factional class and would not mind if the class was open to others.
    Sure, you could say it was in the guild days, but even long past guilds class tone was being set by the cities they were linked to without the need for you're one of us or you can't play the class restrictions.
  • Borran
    Borran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I kinda feel that way too. With the Guild system, it was a trade secret that you were being handed down. And you were expected to fulfill your part of the bargain and uphold your end of the deal. But with everyone being able to get their class from Certimene, there isn't that bond of trust. Instead, you bring your skills to an organisation and they say "Yeah, but you need to attend church every Sunday or else we'll take your skills away." (I know I'm exaggerating but I'm trying to express my feeling toward factional classes)

    BadeLiyanePrytheSenoske
  • Anedhel
    Anedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Borran said:
    I kinda feel that way too. With the Guild system, it was a trade secret that you were being handed down. And you were expected to fulfill your part of the bargain and uphold your end of the deal. But with everyone being able to get their class from Certimene, there isn't that bond of trust. Instead, you bring your skills to an organisation and they say "Yeah, but you need to attend church every Sunday or else we'll take your skills away." (I know I'm exaggerating but I'm trying to express my feeling toward factional classes)
    I guess I've just never actually seen that. There's a certain (although it's way, way, way milder thing now) aspect of 'don't try and screw us or we'll take your class away,' (and even in this case, excommunication/anathema/etc. is so rare that I doubt it'd fill up a big list of names) but I've never actually seen anyone enforce a 'do this or else you're out' line of manipulation. Even in the really hardcore Cities, I haven't heard of people being forced to do things they don't want to do under threat of having their class removed in the last couple RL years (I suspect the admins would dish out hell on a democratic basis if this went down, given how much of a slog it was to do the whole no-Devo-in-Cyrene thing). 
  • Regi
    Regi Member Posts: 30 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    I just think it should be an everyone or no-one bit. Don't like that all 4 other fighting cities (no offense Cyrene) have a flavour of faction restricted classes and Hashan doesn't (though Occie is still a light touch). I would trade away the mechanical ability of Hashan to accept devo and necro classes (since nobody wants to invest lessons in something another player is very very likely to strip) for something that we could have similar sway over.
    AsmodronMathildaPrytheGilt
  • Asmodron
    Asmodron Member Posts: 3,145 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2017
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    Hashan gets short end of the stick here

    Factional classes will exist

    We wont introduce any more though

    "Sir may I have some more?"
    "No..."
    LiyaneReiloch
  • Nazihk
    Nazihk Member Posts: 993 @ - Epic Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would be devastated if these classes were open to others.
    We've been over this before in other threads. Even if they were willing to create another factional class, Hashan doesn't have a strong enough factional identity to justify making one for it. 
  • Mathilda
    Mathilda Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I do not play a factional class and would not mind if these classes were open to others.
    It's not that Hashan doesn't have a strong factional identity -- it does. The problem is that it's hidden away due to historical reasons. Everyone sees Hashan as this weird city that fights for nebulous reasons, which makes it hard because a big part of factional conflict (not just combat) is defined by why your enemies are against you.

    Everyone knows what Good/Nature/Chaos/Evil is, everyone can say why they're against it, and everyone can say why their own faction is The Best Above The Rest. This cannot be said of Darkness, not because there's nothing there, but because what is there is unknown.

    Something something if a tree falls in a forest but no one knows, does it exist.
     <3 
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