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Auto-following target calls is bad, somehow, I guess
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Comments
Automation is fine if you enjoy it, but never on par with manual fighting in my opinion.
I don't believe Cooper was trying to discredit what is means to be a knowledgeable coder, but was referring to the actual game itself. It simply is less skillful to have anything be automated than otherwise, because it is sometimes forgotten that our clients are not actually part of the game at all.
Come join the Achaea discord!
For many of the 19 years of Achaea's life it has been heavily implied that complex automations are not welcome because they widen the divide between those who can code and those who can't code. In recent years the administration have acknowledged certain automations and (perhaps begrudingly with @Sarapis) moved to assist those who can't with the introduction of the curing system and queues.
That said, Achaean combat is a hell of a lot varied compared to the other IRE games. There is no one win strategy for any class and success in the higher tiers is nearly always recognising what strategy the opponent is using and working on the fly to get around it. Knowing the ins and out of combat is a point of pride here, while coding 100% offence is seen as unskilled as it is veiwed as 'set and forget' technique and is seen as inferior.
Next that said, people who come to the forums with a holier-than-thou attitude usually find it themselves ostracised and alienated very swiftly. No matter how many kittens you kiss and babies you pat you'll find it hard to claw back that reputation.
Cooper is also right. Maybe could have worded it better, but was right nonetheless. The skillful part is being able to manually adapt on the fly when the situation calls for it, not rely entirely on a script to do that for you. You keep up with that 'lol don't care what you say' though, it obviously is working.
I, personally, feel that the level of automation there has severely squelched what fun I used to get from PK. I can login to my Aetolia profile, write a script that will pretty much kill anyone who stands around for it, turn it on on some poor sap, go take a poop and watch the free xp scroll up on my screen.
That's not saying that coding the AI doesn't take skill or anything like that, because for a while there I had a loooot of fun with watching it beat people. After long enough, though, it just...wasn't fun anymore. When I think about all the really fun times I had in that game, 90% of those memories are of times before I had all that fancy schmancy AI and were times when I as a player outwitted and beat others. I don't really remember 'Yeah, man, that one time I beat Soandso with my AI, that was sooooo dope.'
I'd hate to see something like that happen for you, too. Maybe it won't. If you like coding stuff like that, do it. Have fun. It's a game.
im pretty sure all reisen did during our raid last night was call for help. I can help you automate that if you want
So, of course you could eventually make a script that covers all possible scenarios in Achaean combat. Are you going to do that? No, you aren't.
So you have "efficiency" in a predetermined amount of scenarios, in which you don't need to think on the fly about what you are doing because your client does it for you. The more facets of combat behaviour you introduce for your client to control, the more variables you have to account for and the higher probability that something can go wrong.
Your comment about running away and going into your code folders to change complex script in the middle of a fight gives away your naivety. While you're doing that vs any competent opponent, unless you run to your city/ship every time - you will die. If you do the former, people will stop fighting you (and it still doesn't necessitate you're even going to win fights).
You're allowed to claim superiority once you've demonstrated your capability. You haven't, not even in your arguments. That is why you have coaxed such an inflammatory response from a fair few people.
Okay, so... manualing is better because you have the chance to mess up? Why is being able to mess up better? Who actually wants to mess up?
@Rom
I generally don't give my code out to other people (except for a couple freebie snippets) and when I do I make sure they understand it before they use it. There is never going to be a single instance of anyone using any of my code without knowing what it does and how it works, mostly because nobody else is going to have my code.
@Cynlael
Who's more skillful: the person who can do something decently, or the person who can create a tool to do it better?
@Dunn
lolno. I did a lot more than call for help. Maybe you would have seen it if you weren't busy spamming duanathar or dying to guards.
@Jovolo
1. I could if I wanted to. Anyone could if they wanted to. It's a lot of effort, but it's not impossible.
2. If something goes wrong, you fix it. Trial and error. Throw out the things that don't work, beef up the things that do. The code gets better over time, not worse.
3. I always have my script window up during a fight, and if it's necessary to tweak things manually, I do it. It's not "complex script". I'm not talking trying to hack the Matrix, here. I'm talking about shifting a couple lines around in a table I already have up in the window. It's not that hard to step a couple rooms away, click a couple times, and go back in.
4. Nobody's claiming superiority. The inflammatory responses come from people getting upset over automation, nothing more. I really don't care about the 'established tradition' of being a hotshot manualer or whatever, so I'm really not bothered when people say "But manualing is better somehow!" ᖍ(ツ)ᖌ
- It allows you to understand game mechanics on a more intimate level
- It sharpens your critical thinking abilities and muscle reflexes
- In tandem with the above, manualing enhances your creativity, allowing you to create new and unique strategies on the fly
- It brings you closer with the community, discussing combat with people on a level far deeper than "well, i coded a fix, gg"
- Manualing also serves to showcase yourself and what you are capable of. Everyone knows that AI can be made near flawless. We don't care about being able to kill an AI... we care about being able to kill YOU. We already have AI combat... it's called bashing.
All in all, if you want to automate, go for it. That's your choice. Just don't expect anyone to think that you're good at combat, cuz you're not... your AI is.
edit: To expand on the points above, when you automate, you are not improving your combat prowess, you are improving your ability to code. Yea, that takes some understanding of how combat works, i'll grant thta, but you will never improve your reflexes, your improvisation, or creativity, because all of that in locked away by reliance on your code doing what you need it to do, or else. It's just enormously distancing from the actual game.
1. Being able to code an offensive system requires as much understanding of the game mechanics as being able to do it manually.
2. If I wanted to play a game that requires muscle reflexes, I'd play Call of Duty or Overwatch. In fact, I already do, and I have plenty of fun doing that. But in IRE games, I can put my critical thinking abilities to use by coding.
3. Coding a system necessitates that you be able to create new and unique strategies on the fly; otherwise, you'd never kill anybody.
4. Again, coding a system requires understanding of combat abilities. You can't make an offense if you don't know how the class works.
5. I'm showcasing myself and what I'm capable of by creating a system. I'm capable of coding. If you beat my system, you beat me.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Lol'd @dunn
achaea is designed in such a way the the human observer should be able to beat a good system if he or she is experienced, focus and aware.
i'm an auto person myself, but i do recognize there are times where something is better left to be manual. not because i couldn't auto it but because sometimes just making 3 aliases is faster and dirtier than building a system with checks and balances.
and back to the real topic, you mentioned the reason you prefer auto target is because you don't know how to code a GUI that can relay important information in an accessible way. now in this thread you say that your solution to the possible problems with using auto is to turn off your auto target. but that puts you back in the situation where you are having a hard time picking out names from the room and resorting to scrolling the main console and the cycle repeats and you as a player never improve.
you can keep fixating on one method of play or you can diversify. i know the best players do.
@Ryzeth
Sure, but I have a bit more prep work to do before I take on the big names. Aff tracker isn't quite fully functional yet & it will probably take a week or so to hit Dragon and finish transing skills (need enhancement/bolster, that's important!)
Not that I'm really looking forward to being a dragon. Some of the skills look useful but I really don't conceptually like the idea of transforming into a dragon so I probably won't use it.
Next. On a side note I love the complete deflection of vender's comments keep em coming.
Also, if you wanna go ahead and switch back to apostate, i'll hand your ass to you in no time flat, kid. Let's do this