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How Exactly does Theft Work?

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  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Anedhel said:
    You could use walls, as long as you left one exit unhindered, iirc. 
    I wonder if you could do that with a hidden/non-typical exit. That'd be fun :naughty:

    Huh. Neat.
  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Austere said:
    Pretty sure wall counts as hinder now and is against the "rules"
    Yes. I lost an issue for this.

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    Ugh this is a slippery slope argument that reminds me of one debate regarding shop theft.

    There was a practice by some thieves to icewall your stockroom door while you were in it and then spam prisms. Either you got caught opening the door or the prism went through. And they argued it was legal because 'items on the ground are fair game' and trapping you as a prism target wasn't the same as forcing you into a room and relieving you of your inventory. 

    And this is why I'm always in dragonform. PTV ftw. 


  • TreyTrey
    Flagon ftw. Goes faster than prism through mono.

  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Also, as someone who emptied shops on my Naga. It can be a pretty shitty thing to do depending on who / where it is. Emptying a Ashtan house shop of over £350k plus items by prisiming to their HL had me dancing around my room in excitement. Robbing the shop of someone with a veil / gem and having to work really hard was also rewarding. Robbing someone who is a new shop owner and has spent ages scraping everything together in order to get some stock is being an arsehole, unfortunately there isn't always a way to tell the latter until after the event. Just -always- ALWAYS be open to discussion about returning stuff, even after their expletive outburst. Unless they issue you for seconds abuse, then fuck em and hold a grudge, because one day they'll be shrubbed and you'll be laughing to yourself. That, erm, last bit is hypothetical. Really.

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Depends on the form of hinderance.

    I recall this time a few years back when this nuisance of a person walled me up in 2 rooms but apparently left 1 exit unwalled that had a door. Naturally i couldnt open the door and couldnt leap or firelash, so I was stuck and had to yell for some help. Apparently because he didnt realize the obvious that i couldn't open this locked door (that frankly would have just added 1 more room for me anyway), that it was then considered alright, and he was left alone.

    #Justice
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    All these people complaining how useless theft is now. If I'm persistent I can make about 200k a month pickpocketing, but you have to be ready to be enemied to everywhere and constantly have contracts out for you. I've broken into shops 5 times. Biggest take was 1.3 million gold plus several specialty items from Black Fist Wares. I can't explain the feeling of just picking up 1.3 million gold.
    image
  • KafzielKafziel
    Jinsun said:
    All these people complaining how useless theft is now. If I'm persistent I can make about 200k a month pickpocketing, but you have to be ready to be enemied to everywhere and constantly have contracts out for you. I've broken into shops 5 times. Biggest take was 1.3 million gold plus several specialty items from Black Fist Wares. I can't explain the feeling of just picking up 1.3 million gold.
    200k is like 2-3 hours of bashing. I don't pickpocket for gold for the same reason I don't forge or harvest for gold: it's inferior to bashing ad dragon.

    Shop theft I used to be an avid supporter of but having seen 2 people quit (maybe coincidentally?) the game right after I robbed their shops, I'm not so sure anymore.
  • IllyoseIllyose
    I heartily support the comments of keeping a dialogue open after a theft. Only reason such encounters for myself haven't put me off completely was talks after them. I don't personally care much for gold, and I tend to keep items locked up. But I definitely took time away from achaea when my very first shop was robbed, and the conversation after amounted to "Look, you took everything I have, any way I can get it back?" met with "I'll sell it all back to you." Ransoming things back is fine, but when you hit a new shop and that is everything they have.... not like they will be able to ransom back their goods. Personally I thought being able to steal from denizens was the best move for pickpocketing. At that point you keep the flavor without the potential to absolutely RUIN someone's day. 
  • JacenJacen
    But using House member privs to let a large raiding party into your House's hall during offpeak times to strip the place clean, then convert, then go dormant denying retribution is a-ok, amiright?
    image
  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Jacen said:
    But using House member privs to let a large raiding party into your House's hall during offpeak times to strip the place clean, then convert, then go dormant denying retribution is a-ok, amiright?
    ^This. This is 7 levels of hell lower than theft. 

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • ValkynValkyn
    Sobriquet said:
    Jacen said:
    But using House member privs to let a large raiding party into your House's hall during offpeak times to strip the place clean, then convert, then go dormant denying retribution is a-ok, amiright?
    ^This. This is 7 levels of hell lower than theft. 
    I was in that raid. Both the raiding party, and Illyose were unaware of the theft until AFTER everything had happened. It was the actions of an individual due to probably missing sigils. I suspect Bonko.

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Kafziel said:
    Jinsun said:
    All these people complaining how useless theft is now. If I'm persistent I can make about 200k a month pickpocketing, but you have to be ready to be enemied to everywhere and constantly have contracts out for you. I've broken into shops 5 times. Biggest take was 1.3 million gold plus several specialty items from Black Fist Wares. I can't explain the feeling of just picking up 1.3 million gold.
    200k is like 2-3 hours of bashing. I don't pickpocket for gold for the same reason I don't forge or harvest for gold: it's inferior to bashing ad dragon.
    People make this argument about Seafaring, too. The operative question is "Is pickpocketing (or Seafaring) more fun than bashing?"

    It's pretty irrelevant to me that bashing is more efficient if I'm bored to tears doing it. I don't log in just so I can play Skinner's pidgeon, mashing that 1 button until gold falls out.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • ArmaliArmali
    I would like to know where you can get 200k for 2-3 hours of bashing. I would very much like the gold.
  • TreyTrey
    edited June 2016
    This whole conversation just drives home how lucky I am to have both an established "I won't fuck you over" reputation coupled with the thieves that have managed to get things before. @Antidas, @Seragorn and @Profit at least, when it came to large scale thefts, met respect with respect when approached politely. There are dicks who steal, but by and large most of them seem happier with making the score itself rather than solely the monetary rewards.

  • CooperCooper
    Armali said:
    I would like to know where you can get 200k for 2-3 hours of bashing. I would very much like the gold.
    Buy a few thousand dollars worth of arties and then you can bash that much in 3 hours in the highest end bashing areas!

  • KafzielKafziel
    Aerek said:
    Kafziel said:
    200k is like 2-3 hours of bashing. I don't pickpocket for gold for the same reason I don't forge or harvest for gold: it's inferior to bashing ad dragon.
    People make this argument about Seafaring, too. The operative question is "Is pickpocketing (or Seafaring) more fun than bashing?"

    It's pretty irrelevant to me that bashing is more efficient if I'm bored to tears doing it. I don't log in just so I can play Skinner's pidgeon, mashing that 1 button until gold falls out.
    Right, I don't dispute this. Was just responding to Jinsun's post. I thieve for fun and bash for gold, thieving for gold is inefficient
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Trey said:
    This whole conversation just drives home how lucky I am to have both an established "I won't fuck you over" reputation coupled with the thieves that have managed to get things before. @Antidas, @Seragorn and @Profit at least, when it came to large scale thefts, met respect with respect when approached politely. There are dicks who steal, but by and large most of them seem happier with making the score itself rather than solely the monetary rewards.
    Though I'm sure it's a pretty great feeling to fund an artie purchase with a single theft u.u.
    Huh. Neat.
  • JacenJacen
    Illyose said:
    Jacen said:
    But using House member privs to let a large raiding party into your House's hall during offpeak times to strip the place clean, then convert, then go dormant denying retribution is a-ok, amiright?
    Youthful ignorance of how theft could be attempted made what was supposed to be a bunch of totem smudging or city room destruction a horrendous assault to an amazing established organization of the game. I misunderstood where house estates factored into cities, and also put much more trust in the rest of the house to have made sure security measures were already in place. I only came to know about the theft because I was accused of knowing about it in the first place. Ignorance is no excuse for a crime that was made much more than it should have been. Where I to be confronted with the exact same situation with the knowledge I have now, there is no way I would have done the same things that I did.  
    Thanks for saying that. It still stings more than it should (hence the wording of my post) and I'm sorry for lashing out like that. 
    image
  • AntidasAntidas
    Late to the show, but for the record, using walls to prevent a shopkeeper from leaving their shop has -always- been against the rules, and is not a new thing. You were never allowed to hinder the theft victim, unless you had pk cause on them, in which case nearly anything went.

    And also, what @Trey said. I've always lived by the principle that if you're an asshole to me, I'm gonna be an asshole to you. And vice versa, if you don't open up negotiations with a lot of cursing aimed at myself and my mother, I'm probably going to try to be reasonable with you to get you your stuff back. Most thieves that are worth their salt are like this - its the young ones that are just doing it for the lulz and aren't very old or established characters that are the real problem, in my experience.

    (@Trey I still have my statue and I still love that thing <3)

  • TreyTrey
    Antidas said:
    Late to the show, but for the record, using walls to prevent a shopkeeper from leaving their shop has -always- been against the rules, and is not a new thing. You were never allowed to hinder the theft victim, unless you had pk cause on them, in which case nearly anything went.

    And also, what @Trey said. I've always lived by the principle that if you're an asshole to me, I'm gonna be an asshole to you. And vice versa, if you don't open up negotiations with a lot of cursing aimed at myself and my mother, I'm probably going to try to be reasonable with you to get you your stuff back. Most thieves that are worth their salt are like this - its the young ones that are just doing it for the lulz and aren't very old or established characters that are the real problem, in my experience.

    (@Trey I still have my statue and I still love that thing <3)
    Feed it heaaaaaaaads.

  • StunereeStuneree
    edited July 2016
    Alright a bit of a gravedig here, but I've been trying to set up some aliases for theft and trying it on friendlies, but nothing works. 

    I'll hypnotise, wait 5.5 seconds, suggest @tar take gold from pack, seal @tar, wait 2 seconds, mesmerise @tar, wait 10.08 seconds, snap @tar, and then nothing. I've tried other commands like throwing generosity in, and suggest @tar action take gold from pack, and while they register as actual actions, they never go through. I'll snap them, but nothing happens.

    Do I have something completely off here?

    Thanks

    EDIT: I've even tried things that I feel would have a combat benefit like SLEEP, but still just nothing.


  • AesiAesi
    Stuneree said:
    Alright a bit of a gravedig here, but I've been trying to set up some aliases for theft and trying it on friendlies, but nothing works. 

    I'll hypnotise, wait 5.5 seconds, suggest @tar take gold from pack, seal @tar, wait 2 seconds, mesmerise @tar, wait 10.08 seconds, snap @tar, and then nothing. I've tried other commands like throwing generosity in, and suggest @tar action take gold from pack, and while they register as actual actions, they never go through. I'll snap them, but nothing happens.

    Do I have something completely off here?

    Thanks

    EDIT: I've even tried things that I feel would have a combat benefit like SLEEP, but still just nothing.
    are you saying you lay a hypnosis seal, then mesmerise after?

    Haven't serpented in a while but I'm pretty sure you wiped out your hypno stack.
  • StunereeStuneree
    edited July 2016
    Hmm gonna try it without the mesmerize quickly here...

    EDIT: @Aesi
     Nope still doesn't work even when removing mesmerize. :(


  • AesiAesi
    I haven't really stolen ever, but I'm pretty sure you can't even force get gold from pack unless they have generosity
  • StunereeStuneree
    Cooper said:
    I don't really think people should help you or encourage theft, especially if you can't figure something so simple out yourself. Sorry!
    Jeez! Like I said in OP, I just want it for a bit of fun, wouldn't do it against anyone novice.
    But understandable as well; I'll keep toying with it though I THINK I'm following the spell as it instructs.


  • AntidasAntidas
    I don't fully disagree with Cooper. What I will say is, the basics of hypnosis are as follows. Hypnotize target, suggest <thing>, seal <time>, and snap. If you've done all that and w/e you want to happen still isn't happening, then think about what actions/measures might be preventing it. If you still can't figure it out from there, I'd ask someone ICly.

  • StunereeStuneree
    Antidas said:
    I don't fully disagree with Cooper. What I will say is, the basics of hypnosis are as follows. Hypnotize target, suggest <thing>, seal <time>, and snap. If you've done all that and w/e you want to happen still isn't happening, then think about what actions/measures might be preventing it. If you still can't figure it out from there, I'd ask someone ICly.
    Yeah that's exactly what I've been doing... Thank you though; least I know what the order is!


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