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Vaehl

Xith said:

Tanris said:

I don't follow with the aeon thing. You know you can reaeon to reset the 15 sec timer, yeah?

..Did not know that. But that makes occultist follow-up devil flings scarier.

Sigh...

Tvistor

Je ne sais pas.

Mishgul

parlez vous en anglais. Je deteste le francais

Delphinus

Kimochi warui.

Xith

Tanris said:

The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?

Vaehl

Xith said:

Tanris said:

The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?

a) eq.

b) who says they had to be the one to move themselves?

Xith

Vaehl said:

Xith said:

Tanris said:

The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?

a) eq.

b) who says they had to be the one to move themselves?

Cause empressing someone into the same room they're standing in is derpy? O.o

Vaehl

Try again.

Xith

With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

0.0 - fling lust
0.1 - person rejects lust
2.0 - fling lust
3.1 - person rejects again
4.0. - fling lust
6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

Maht

Xith said:

With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

0.0 - fling lust
0.1 - person rejects lust
2.0 - fling lust
3.1 - person rejects again
4.0. - fling lust
6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

You and your target are not the only people involved in the situation that Vaehl is imagining.

Xith

Maht said:

Xith said:

With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

0.0 - fling lust
0.1 - person rejects lust
2.0 - fling lust
3.1 - person rejects again
4.0. - fling lust
6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

You and your target are not the only people involved in the situation that Vaehl is imagining.

Then the target would probably die anyway, and 33% faster lust tarots aren't going to change that for a jester. Doppie lust/emp probably still has the upper hand even in that situation. Besides, you could stick lust faster in a blackout if all those people are one room away, two adjacent dustbombs, lust, move, fling. Juggled tarot for lusts would be silly.

Vaehl

Blacked out lust a lot more stoppable than being completely unable to reject. And "probably die anyway" doesn't really make sense.

There's also situations in which you wouldn't need to throw three lusts.

Xith

Okay well, go ahead and present the situations then, because I'm not seeing an argument against the power of juggled lust.

Penwize

In your example, in 6 seconds you get to killroom someone, essentially for free.
On second 6, you earring to some person and fling lust from there, landing them on a totem or whatever else you feel like.  They get no real chance to react.  2-man guaranteed kill.

Achilles

plus pretty sure if you empress someone in the same room they hit totems again (if in a city).  I know this happens with earrings.

Tvistor

To be honest, given the latency on some of our players, you could very easily throw the third tarot and duanathar;;direction;;direction;;empress them into a defendable/guards.

Tanris

My hyperthetical situation was far simpler.

Let us assume I went jester for a day, my go to strategy would be something like this with juggled lust:

Tell dunn yo, go implant me a totem at <some universe exit>

Walk in to targets room.
Throw universe
juggle lusts.
That guy is hitting totem and there is nothing he can do about it.
Requires no second person if you have a runest friend willing to implant for you.

Start adding in earrings or a second person with tarot to empress you after lust and it gets into a whole new realm of unpleasant. What you're essentially getting is a 100% guaranteed summon on a person, where all they can do is sit off eq until you get done taking them to your prepped room of choice. Consider portals, say duanathar/emp into team, etc. Something like that would 100% be abused. Hell, I know I'd shamelessly abuse it without a second thought, because it'd be immediately apparent how broken it was that it'd be priority fixed.

Rean

I listed out some other reasons why it was a bad idea, but man, just take their word for it. :P

Mizik

I don't think it's that bad!

Vaehl

As well, you're not going to stay with balance for an entire fight vs someone juggling lust, are you? If you hit them after they hit you, the amount of lusts needed could go down to 2, or even 1.

Mizik

This argument is pretty one dimensional. You don't have to auto reject every time, and you should be adding monolith sigils to the Jester repertoire. Find solutions, not problems. Melee only is a pretty solid restriction.

The Jester class could use some marketability.

Aeon aeon kalmia concussion would be the new black. Especially with bombs.

Zeon

You could walk around with paranoia up. Doesn't work out when you start taking general affs, but would be fine if you're just worried about some jester lust ganking you.

Arador

The big classlead I would like is the one about shrugging. No skill I have come to hate more.

Iocun

Arador said:

The big classlead I would like is the one about shrugging. No skill I have come to hate more.

Why then am I the only one who keeps classleading nerfs to shrugging every single classlead round?

Some support here, please!

Lothien

Mishgul said:

parlez vous en anglais. Je deteste le francais

Je savais qu'il y a quelque chose de toi que je détestais, mais je ne le savais pas exactement. Mais maintenant, je le sais!

The good part about living in France for seven months was the ability to timezone abuse. Sadly I'm not a raider, so I'd just timezone abuse hunting areas.

Does anyone see a problem with classleading these additions to the Healing skill?
- Peace
- Lovers

Mizik

I don't get it. How does that nerf/balance Healing.

Iocun

I assumed it was implied that paralysis, asthma, anorexia, impatience, and slickness would be removed from healing in their stead.

Xith

Tanris said:

My hyperthetical situation was far simpler.

Let us assume I went jester for a day, my go to strategy would be something like this with juggled lust:

Tell dunn yo, go implant me a totem at <some universe exit>

Walk in to targets room.
Throw universe
juggle lusts.
That guy is hitting totem and there is nothing he can do about it.
Requires no second person if you have a runest friend willing to implant for you.

Start adding in earrings or a second person with tarot to empress you after lust and it gets into a whole new realm of unpleasant. What you're essentially getting is a 100% guaranteed summon on a person, where all they can do is sit off eq until you get done taking them to your prepped room of choice. Consider portals, say duanathar/emp into team, etc. Something like that would 100% be abused. Hell, I know I'd shamelessly abuse it without a second thought, because it'd be immediately apparent how broken it was that it'd be priority fixed.

a) illegal totems can help anybody. and are illegal/givecause
b) I thought summoning into city totems was a no-no
c) juggled tarot hardly makes these things any more possible than they already are, and if so, not in any way that matters.

--- 2 v 1 or X v 1 combat is always stacked in favor of the X. Three devil flings in group combat is no lesser advantage than juggled tarot would be
--- A jester moving somebody into a totem (unprepped) might not even get them the kill. But a jester moving someone prepped into a totem is no different than prepping them without a totem. And any class can lean on illegal totems as a crutch in the same way. So this is not an ability-specific argument in this case

Sena

Xith said:

a) illegal totems can help anybody. and are illegal/givecause

Cause and illegal totems no longer exist.

Xith

Sena said:

Xith said:

a) illegal totems can help anybody. and are illegal/givecause

Cause and illegal totems no longer exist.

Funny, I knew someone would say this. But you can still be hired on for attacking someone with an implanted totem or be hired on for the totem. But implanted totems can be unfair for more than lust regardless.