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  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Xith said:
    Tanris said:
    I don't follow with the aeon thing. You know you can reaeon to reset the 15 sec timer, yeah?

    ..Did not know that. But that makes occultist follow-up devil flings scarier.
    Sigh...
    Tvistor
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,900 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Je ne sais pas.
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    parlez vous en anglais. Je deteste le francais

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    XithTvistorAveri
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,292 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That is the most obscure reference I have seen on these boards for a while.

    Nice call.
    TvistorJonathin
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tanris said:
    The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

    a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
    b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xith said:
    Tanris said:
    The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

    a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
    b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?

    a) eq.
    b) who says they had to be the one to move themselves?
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    Vaehl said:
    Xith said:
    Tanris said:
    The reason I'd be opposed to juggled tarot is that any ability which lets you lust faster than someone can reject is going to be abused.

    a) I don't know what the reject balance is if there is one
    b) they'd still have only a couple of seconds to move and empress the person, so what does it matter for a jester?

    a) eq.
    b) who says they had to be the one to move themselves?

    Cause empressing someone into the same room they're standing in is derpy? O.o
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Try again.
    Maht
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

    0.0 - fling lust
    0.1 - person rejects lust
    2.0 - fling lust
    3.1 - person rejects again
    4.0. - fling lust
    6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
    6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

    I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • MahtMaht Member Posts: 78 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Xith said:

    With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

    0.0 - fling lust
    0.1 - person rejects lust
    2.0 - fling lust
    3.1 - person rejects again
    4.0. - fling lust
    6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
    6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

    I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

    You and your target are not the only people involved in the situation that Vaehl is imagining.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Maht said:
    Xith said:

    With 3 pre-juggled lusts (2 sec to throw)

    0.0 - fling lust
    0.1 - person rejects lust
    2.0 - fling lust
    3.1 - person rejects again
    4.0. - fling lust
    6.0 - move one room away and fling empress
    6.1 - person rejects lust if it was still there

    I assumed a 3 sec eq. Am I missing something or does that look pointless?

    You and your target are not the only people involved in the situation that Vaehl is imagining.

    Then the target would probably die anyway, and 33% faster lust tarots aren't going to change that for a jester. Doppie lust/emp probably still has the upper hand even in that situation. Besides, you could stick lust faster in a blackout if all those people are one room away, two adjacent dustbombs, lust, move, fling. Juggled tarot for lusts would be silly.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Blacked out lust a lot more stoppable than being completely unable to reject. And "probably die anyway" doesn't really make sense.

    There's also situations in which you wouldn't need to throw three lusts.
    Rean
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Okay well, go ahead and present the situations then, because I'm not seeing an argument against the power of juggled lust.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,558 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    In your example, in 6 seconds you get to killroom someone, essentially for free.
    On second 6, you earring to some person and fling lust from there, landing them on a totem or whatever else you feel like.  They get no real chance to react.  2-man guaranteed kill.
    Rean
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,579 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    plus pretty sure if you empress someone in the same room they hit totems again (if in a city).  I know this happens with earrings.
    image
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,900 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To be honest, given the latency on some of our players, you could very easily throw the third tarot and duanathar;;direction;;direction;;empress them into a defendable/guards.
  • TanrisTanris Member Posts: 683 @ - Epic Achaean

    My hyperthetical situation was far simpler.

    Let us assume I went jester for a day, my go to strategy would be something like this with juggled lust:

    Tell dunn yo, go implant me a totem at <some universe exit>

    Walk in to targets room.
    Throw universe
    juggle lusts.
    That guy is hitting totem and there is nothing he can do about it.
    Requires no second person if you have a runest friend willing to implant for you.

    Start adding in earrings or a second person with tarot to empress you after lust and it gets into a whole new realm of unpleasant. What you're essentially getting is a 100% guaranteed summon on a person, where all they can do is sit off eq until you get done taking them to your prepped room of choice. Consider portals, say duanathar/emp into team, etc. Something like that would 100% be abused. Hell, I know I'd shamelessly abuse it without a second thought, because it'd be immediately apparent how broken it was that it'd be priority fixed.

    ReanSherazad
  • ReanRean Member Posts: 66 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I listed out some other reasons why it was a bad idea, but man, just take their word for it. :P
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't think it's that bad!
    image
    Xith
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As well, you're not going to stay with balance for an entire fight vs someone juggling lust, are you? If you hit them after they hit you, the amount of lusts needed could go down to 2, or even 1.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This argument is pretty one dimensional. You don't have to auto reject every time, and you should be adding monolith sigils to the Jester repertoire. Find solutions, not problems. Melee only is a pretty solid restriction.

    The Jester class could use some marketability.

    Aeon aeon kalmia concussion would be the new black. Especially with bombs.
    image
    Zeon
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    You could walk around with paranoia up. Doesn't work out when you start taking general affs, but would be fine if you're just worried about some jester lust ganking you.

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The big classlead I would like is the one about shrugging. No skill I have come to hate more.

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,663 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    Arador said:
    The big classlead I would like is the one about shrugging. No skill I have come to hate more.
    Why then am I the only one who keeps classleading nerfs to shrugging every single classlead round? :(

    Some support here, please!
  • LothienLothien Montréal, QuébecMember Posts: 256 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Mishgul said:
    parlez vous en anglais. Je deteste le francais
    Je savais qu'il y a quelque chose de toi que je détestais, mais je ne le savais pas exactement. Mais maintenant, je le sais!

    The good part about living in France for seven months was the ability to timezone abuse. Sadly I'm not a raider, so I'd just timezone abuse hunting areas.

    Does anyone see a problem with classleading these additions to the Healing skill?
    - Peace
    - Lovers
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't get it. How does that nerf/balance Healing.
    image
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,663 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I assumed it was implied that paralysis, asthma, anorexia, impatience, and slickness would be removed from healing in their stead.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tanris said:

    My hyperthetical situation was far simpler.

    Let us assume I went jester for a day, my go to strategy would be something like this with juggled lust:

    Tell dunn yo, go implant me a totem at <some universe exit>

    Walk in to targets room.
    Throw universe
    juggle lusts.
    That guy is hitting totem and there is nothing he can do about it.
    Requires no second person if you have a runest friend willing to implant for you.

    Start adding in earrings or a second person with tarot to empress you after lust and it gets into a whole new realm of unpleasant. What you're essentially getting is a 100% guaranteed summon on a person, where all they can do is sit off eq until you get done taking them to your prepped room of choice. Consider portals, say duanathar/emp into team, etc. Something like that would 100% be abused. Hell, I know I'd shamelessly abuse it without a second thought, because it'd be immediately apparent how broken it was that it'd be priority fixed.


    a) illegal totems can help anybody. and are illegal/givecause
    b) I thought summoning into city totems was a no-no
    c) juggled tarot hardly makes these things any more possible than they already are, and if so, not in any way that matters.

    --- 2 v 1 or X v 1 combat is always stacked in favor of the X. Three devil flings in group combat is no lesser advantage than juggled tarot would be
    --- A jester moving somebody into a totem (unprepped) might not even get them the kill. But a jester moving someone prepped into a totem is no different than prepping them without a totem. And any class can lean on illegal totems as a crutch in the same way. So this is not an ability-specific argument in this case

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xith said:

    a) illegal totems can help anybody. and are illegal/givecause

    Cause and illegal totems no longer exist.
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