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Requires Balance/Equilibrium in AB Files

TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
Instead of just "Cooldown", could we get lines for "Requires" and "Cooldown"?

So "Requires" tells you whether you need to be on-balance or on-equilibrium to use the ability (or on class balance) and "Cooldown" tells you how muc balance or equilibrium it actually takes (or class balance, which I'm not sure whether it current lists).

Right now, the documentation for a lot of this stuff is really piecemeal and in a few crucial cases pretty unintuitive, with only certain random AB files mentioning that certain abilities can be used together. It would be nice if it were just made clear and, since obviously the game's engine already knows which abilities require which balances, I'm guessing it should be possible to add this programmatically without having to go through all the skills by hand?
KayeilJaceroDochithaTelendriethBorran

Comments

  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    I think this would be helpful for new players.

    It seems the skills files are very rp but sometimes I'm like wtf does this do and i have to try it out to figure it out... Maybe that's the point??



  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This would be helpful for knowing what you could combine to use up 2/3 balances at once (I didn't know I could vinerend and propagate at the same time, which is going to be handy for slickness/asthma variants etc.


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  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    I didn't know I could do many of the skills I can do simultaneously... Maybe a skill like "combo" in tekura that tells you what you can do



  • TelendriethTelendrieth Member Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    From the title I thought you meant you wanted AB X to cost Balance/EQ and I was so very confused.

    I like the idea though, would help out a fair bit.
  • AesgarAesgar Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Agreed.

    I have had some novices asking me what abilities are shield and what abilities are sword.

    For example, trip doesn't specify. 
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,871 Achaean staff

    Its not possible to do this programatically, unfortunately. It'd have to be a manual job like the assigning of bal/eq times (which is a massive time sink; there are over 2000 ability entries that would need to be audited, and its not a small number over 2000 either).

    It could happen down the line (or it could not), but given the time investment I am about 99.9% sure it isn't going to happen in the immediate future.

  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Yeah that sucks. Right now it's just up to us to teach new priests to smite chasten and disrupt all in one go.



  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Makarios said:

    Its not possible to do this programatically, unfortunately. It'd have to be a manual job like the assigning of bal/eq times (which is a massive time sink; there are over 2000 ability entries that would need to be audited, and its not a small number over 2000 either).

    It could happen down the line (or it could not), but given the time investment I am about 99.9% sure it isn't going to happen in the immediate future.

    The journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step...

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  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    Makarios said:

    Its not possible to do this programatically, unfortunately. It'd have to be a manual job like the assigning of bal/eq times (which is a massive time sink; there are over 2000 ability entries that would need to be audited, and its not a small number over 2000 either).

    It could happen down the line (or it could not), but given the time investment I am about 99.9% sure it isn't going to happen in the immediate future.

    I've heard some scary things about Achaea's legacy backend stuff, but the idea that programmatically extracting balance costs is impossible (or at least very difficult) is legitimately terrifying. You have my sympathies.
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,380 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sounds like the Celani task from hell.
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    Sounds like the Celani task from hell.
    Alternately, it's the marathon endurance race that will determine who is worthy of coder-hood, and who shall fall into the gutter of failure.
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  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,429 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cant we, as experienced players, create a thread with which skills can be combo'd? I know not all players use the forum but its something at least. I had zero idea of what could be used in combination with other things when I went Runie and Kasa has been teaching me like a 5yr old trying to walk. "oh, yes you can touch tentacle/arc curare" and "lol, you can engage in the same attack as as long as its done last" These things are -really- handy and can make the difference in feeling you can fight and being overwhelmed.
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    TelendriethKlendathuSzanthax
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Might be worth putting on the wiki, in the class specific pages

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    SobriquetSherazad
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    Cant we, as experienced players, create a thread with which skills can be combo'd? I know not all players use the forum but its something at least. I had zero idea of what could be used in combination with other things when I went Runie and Kasa has been teaching me like a 5yr old trying to walk. "oh, yes you can touch tentacle/arc curare" and "lol, you can engage in the same attack as as long as its done last" These things are -really- handy and can make the difference in feeling you can fight and being overwhelmed.

    It might be worth submitting TYPOs in-game asking for that information to be added to the individual AB files. It's going to be a considerably smaller effort than going through all 2k+ abilities and adding that information for each one, and a lot of the actual work involved in identifying the abilities that need changing would be done by players rather than coders. Maybe get somebody to confirm that that's something they're going to be happy with us doing first, though.

    It's probably not quite as good as having a specific listing for each ability of what they require, but much better than nothing. The default assumption should be that if an ability uses balance or equilibrium, it requires both, unless there's a specific exception mentioned in its AB file. Something as simple as "This ability may be used without equilibrium." at the end of AB WEAPONMASTERY ARC should be sufficient in that case to indicate that it can be combo'd with any other ability that uses equilibrium.

    Szanthax
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That can probably be done, but it would have to be done by super reliable people who keep up with this stuff because it could easily become out of date later and forgotten.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Makarios said:

    Honestly, if you email me a list (not one email per file please) of ones that you think are missing and problematic, I'm happy to update the abfiles if appropriate. Probably easiest as I can do them without someone having to spend time verifying if the report is right or not. If its a skill wide thing (like say, striking, artifice), that should probably be bugged as it can just get added to the general skill helpfile or some such.

    I've updated chasten/arc/engage, for reference.

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