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Seafaring ship vs ship stuff

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  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,298 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    One weapon at a time is what we used to have. It didn't work. If this was a response to every shot type doing something special, well, every shot type didn't need to do something special. I mean kicking people off the figurehead? Really? That is just OP AF.

    I don't like it. BUT, if you want to make it work remove hull repairs while at sea. No crew repairs, no hull/sail maint ability. No more damage from moving (which was always stupid). Adjust monster health/damage to suit.

    Suddenly Wavecall isn't the answer to everything. Crashing through chops might not be the best idea. No more turtling AND the bug that lets ships repair from 0% hull health NEVER has to be fixed. But after 9-10 years I guess it never will be anyways...
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,296 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or just introduce a weapon damage type that causes max health reduction to either hull or sails. Enough of that stacks and you're absolutely fucked, but you can repair off the other damage if you manage to catch a breath. Flame/fire damage should do this by default. Returning to port and doing repairs there restores the max health to normal.
    Elowin
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Regarding grapple: I've not been able to successfully grapple a ship for quite some time now in the times that I've crewed for other ships. The circumstances under which a ship may be grappled seems to be so specific that it appears to be capable of being averted purely by spamming rowing/sails regardless of whether the ship moves (or can move) :/ 

    Also, can we have a check on that forced map update for shipwarning and monster movement? It doesn't seem to be working at this point. 


    Saeva
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, I don't really understand the logic for the ship v ship weapon reset, can that be explained to me? I'm guessing it's because they were worried about the ability of one guy on an onager to keep the sails/figurehead/weapon locked down, (which is pretty strong) or that they thought that 3 ballistas firing in broadsides was too much damage at once, but neither of those things seem particularly unfair to me or could at least be mitigated through other means.

    But I'm not a hardened veteran when it comes to ship combat, so perhaps there are some things I'm not realizing.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Saeva
  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    Kiet said:
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Or maybe I just knew what I was doing.

    Also, I was not 'constantly stuck in place'. I was grappled on and off but that is not the same thing.
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Anaria said:
    Kiet said:
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Or maybe I just knew what I was doing.

    Also, I was not 'constantly stuck in place'. I was grappled on and off but that is not the same thing.
    You were stuck in place a lot. A fair lot. That whole venture was around 30 minutes and you weren't far east of Zaphar and it took -that- long for you to get to the harbour. And you never got below 80 hull from what I could tell. That's just stupid.


  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    I mean, you can say you 'knew what you were doing' but there's only like a couple of things you can really do to mitigate incoming damage, and neither of them are exactly high level strategizing. You also weren't doing all of them.

    If you allow yourself to be fired at for 30-40 minutes straight (our ballista never stopped firing) I would really say you should at least be close to sinking if not outright sunk. Small-scale fights not having any sort of winner decided by the 30 minute mark is just not great design, and I doubt it's what was necessarily intended when weapons got reworked.
  • GamdenGamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think Anaria IS experienced but im with Kiet on this one..Strider vs Strider is pretty much broken

    Saeva
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Gamden said:
    I think Anaria IS experienced but im with Kiet on this one..Strider vs Strider is pretty much broken
    Right, like, we used to have regular adventurer 1v1 fights that lasted 30 minutes all the time back in the day, but this was recognized as not desirable.

    Of course, ship combat shouldn't be as fast as land combat (a ship getting sunk in 20 seconds would be absurd), and there's also the issue that you have to account for galleys/groups of ships. But I imagine having some kind of scaling damage based on how many darts are firing at you over the last X seconds might work?

    Strider vs cutter times are pretty good, though of course striders could take a bit longer to sink than that.
  • TarausTaraus The Gypsy WindMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 890 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    haha lol

    god damn it now I miss Merador

  • GamdenGamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think amount of damage per person per weapon rank should be increased.

    2 weapons lvl 5 x people shooting per weapon at on lvl 1 sailor thought sink him faster than lower level sailors..srry on cell..cannot flesh out my idea

  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    Saeva said:
    Anaria said:
    Kiet said:
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Or maybe I just knew what I was doing.

    Also, I was not 'constantly stuck in place'. I was grappled on and off but that is not the same thing.
    You were stuck in place a lot. A fair lot. That whole venture was around 30 minutes and you weren't far east of Zaphar and it took -that- long for you to get to the harbour. And you never got below 80 hull from what I could tell. That's just stupid.
    You are also leaving out the fact that I was not running for Zaphar the whole time. I was on the defensive and returning fire whenever possible and only started to bug out after it became clear you had me out numbered at least 3 to 1 if not more and no help was likely to arrive before I DID sink. You are also understating how much hull damage I took during the battle, particularly near the end, but I don't care to provide exact numbers for your analysis. Suffice it to say, it was not a favourable situation for me to be in. 
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Anaria said:
    Saeva said:
    Anaria said:
    Kiet said:
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Or maybe I just knew what I was doing.

    Also, I was not 'constantly stuck in place'. I was grappled on and off but that is not the same thing.
    You were stuck in place a lot. A fair lot. That whole venture was around 30 minutes and you weren't far east of Zaphar and it took -that- long for you to get to the harbour. And you never got below 80 hull from what I could tell. That's just stupid.
    You are also leaving out the fact that I was not running for Zaphar the whole time. I was on the defensive and returning fire whenever possible and only started to bug out after it became clear you had me out numbered at least 3 to 1 if not more and no help was likely to arrive before I DID sink. You are also understating how much hull damage I took during the battle, particularly near the end, but I don't care to provide exact numbers for your analysis. Suffice it to say, it was not a favourable situation for me to be in. 

    Stuck in the box:
    Then shipscan is broken.


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,357 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Some time ago shipscan was silently changed to give an actual percent in regards to a ship's hull health, and then just as silently changed back to this vague mess. I sort of wish it had stayed, but perhaps it'll come back with a future rework.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah either shipscan is broken or there's not really any way for us to 'understate' the damage done. It's still giving a percent right now, though?
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes it gives a percentage in increments of 10s


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,357 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Is it? All I get is the usual Hull no damage or Hull md damage or whatever. What I am referring to was it being changed to saying something like 100% health like you get on your own ship prompt. Do you still guys get it like that? Maybe I am the one bugged then xD

    Edit: I wonder if it is related to how much you have in the watch specialisation

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    Is it? All I get is the usual Hull no damage or Hull md damage or whatever. What I am referring to was it being changed to saying something like 100% health like you get on your own ship prompt. Do you still guys get it like that? Maybe I am the one bugged then xD
    Do you do shipscan brief? It's at the end. You'll see Hull % and sails %


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,357 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Saeva said:
    Shirszae said:
    Is it? All I get is the usual Hull no damage or Hull md damage or whatever. What I am referring to was it being changed to saying something like 100% health like you get on your own ship prompt. Do you still guys get it like that? Maybe I am the one bugged then xD
    Do you do shipscan brief? It's at the end. You'll see Hull % and sails %
    All I get with shipscan brief is

    [H] TLS Crown of Thorns (WC ) no flag - ; H ^^^

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would have helped if you had called you position east of Zaphar instead of East of Tapoa where those looking to back you up went.

    Its going to be really hard to balance out damage wise since the hull healths of the three types of ship vary ridiculous amounts.
    Kiet
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Shirszae

    ** SHIPSCAN BRIEF ** You see the following ships nearby.
    [H] The Barrel (WG ) golden - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Mysterious Shroud (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Enheduanna`s Glass Heart (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Drowning Grace (WC ) black - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Malarkey (SS ) blue - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Lighthammer (SS ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Shadows Escape (WC ) blue - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] an unnamed Windcutter (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Sea Rose (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] SS Arcane Butterfly (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Tempting Fate (WC ) silver - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Eye of Asopos (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Durande (SS ) red - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] TLS Lionheart (WC ) glyphic pirate's - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Sea Lily (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Talliest Giraffe (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] SS Miss Behavin (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Vashnarian Heart (WC ) silver - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Albatross (WC ) green - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Crimson Wake (WC ) red - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] TLS Manifest Arcitena (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Wildwood Nautilus (SS ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Scurvy Eel (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Jaunty Fugue (WG ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Ulangian Starlight (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Relentless (SS ) silver - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Silver Spider (WC ) red - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Hokulea (SS ) silver - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Draoi Keleus (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Perpetual Motion (SS ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Compass Rose (SS ) blue - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Mere Nature (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Ravens Wing (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Yard and Fundament (SS ) black - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Hyphen (WC ) blue - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] ANS Blade of Entropy (SS ) black - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Emerald Maiden (WC ) no flag - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] Ainghaeal`s Revenge (WC ) blue - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] TLS Windweaver (WC ) Mhaldorian flag of crimson - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] TLS Leviathan (WG ) Mhaldorian flag of crimson - [email protected]%; [email protected]%
    [H] The Gypsy Wind (SS ) and belled pirate's - [email protected]%; [email protected]%


    Shirszae
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    Would have helped if you had called you position east of Zaphar instead of East of Tapoa where those looking to back you up went.

    Its going to be really hard to balance out damage wise since the hull healths of the three types of ship vary ridiculous amounts.
    Yeah by far the hardest part is balancing the vastly different hull strengths and the numbers of weapons. A galley has a ridiculously higher amount of firepower, and that's fine, but you don't want them like one-shotting striders.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,357 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, apparently seeing it like that requires full watch.  The more you know.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    ElowinGamdenJanna
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    Yeah, apparently seeing it like that requires full watch.  The more you know.
    Aha, I learned something new today then too.


    MelodieShirszaeGamdenJanna
  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Saeva said:
    Anaria said:
    Saeva said:
    Anaria said:
    Kiet said:
    Ship vs ship damage is still pretty ridiculous.  Spent 30-40 minutes firing at a ship that was constantly grappled or stuck in place and the ship only lost 20% hull? Pretty absurd! Cutters sink pretty fast, but strider vs strider is pretty useless.
    Or maybe I just knew what I was doing.

    Also, I was not 'constantly stuck in place'. I was grappled on and off but that is not the same thing.
    You were stuck in place a lot. A fair lot. That whole venture was around 30 minutes and you weren't far east of Zaphar and it took -that- long for you to get to the harbour. And you never got below 80 hull from what I could tell. That's just stupid.
    You are also leaving out the fact that I was not running for Zaphar the whole time. I was on the defensive and returning fire whenever possible and only started to bug out after it became clear you had me out numbered at least 3 to 1 if not more and no help was likely to arrive before I DID sink. You are also understating how much hull damage I took during the battle, particularly near the end, but I don't care to provide exact numbers for your analysis. Suffice it to say, it was not a favourable situation for me to be in. 

    Stuck in the box:
    Then shipscan is broken.
    I have set aside the log of the battle for @Tecton or @Sarapis in case either wishes to see the combat from my ships perspective and see just how low I got. 

    Also my apologies to the Mariners. When I was first attacked I did call out Tapoa instead of Zaphar. Woops. My bad. When you are under sudden attack there are a lot of details happening at once.
    Janna
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Pretty sure they can see it without your log if they have the approx. time. Which they do, because Kiet's post was right after it all.


  • FrederichFrederich Member Posts: 1,243 @ - Epic Achaean
    I do kinda wonder what damage our two ships did against yours.

    that was my first time fighting someone else on the ocean and i was really jittery and scared because gamden dragged me out there
    Janna
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,944 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    We got down to 50 or so but there was some wavecall damage, and I never put up hullgird. Wasn't exactly worried, cause it's not the first time I've had numerous ships called out to come and play.

    But welcome to the high seas! Keep at it!


    MelodieShirszaeJanna
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