Bloodline Disinherit

Tahquil

Ugh, sorry, I kept reading that with a 't' on the end for some reason.

Our character live in a world in which we have instantanous access to a person we have never met - bloodline, full name, house and city position, age, birthdate, marriages, how they rank up against other people in experience or exploration rankings. It's not that far of a stretch we also know which biological sex they were when they were born. You can sure ask people to refer to you as a girl. 

On a personal note and give me an unpopular puffin meme picture here - In real life, I don't understand why people feel the need to make these labels. It may be because I am ignorant and I honestly don't know anyone trans, if you feel like you are a girl why don't you just say 'I'm a girl' instead of 'Oh I'm trans' which is still identifying yourself as male?

Sena

Tahquil said:

if you feel like you are a girl why don't you just say 'I'm a girl' instead of 'Oh I'm trans' which is still identifying yourself as male?

I think most do just that, and only use trans when talking specifically about trans issues or clarifying that their gender doesn't match their birth sex. It's useful to have terminology to talk unambiguously about things like that, even if you usually don't the terms to refer to yourself.

Cooper

Or, you know, you could pick the sex you want your character to be upon character creation. There's absolutely 0 canon in Achaea to suggest that transgender is something that even happens in Achaea.

Kayeil

Cooper said:

Or, you know, you could pick the sex you want your character to be upon character creation. There's absolutely 0 canon in Achaea to suggest that transgender is something that even happens in Achaea.

Eh... there are some characters who have actually had their physical gender changed.

Kiet

There's plenty of things for which there are no evidence in Achaea that suddenly spring up and become their own pieces of lore, in the first place, so that's a pretty thin objection in the first place. If people could only stick to 100% established lore instead of filling in the blanks there wouldn't be a whole lot of creativity.

Sarapis

Gotta agree with @Kiet here, @Cooper. 

We may or may not accept it as canon (always a risk when trying to establish 'canon' as a player) but there's no doubt that there's value in players "filling in the blanks," as it were.

Trevize

Daeir said:

Talysin pulls it off fine from what I've seen anyway.

Ha, that's Trevize's little brother! Ahem, I mean, that dirty tree-hugger.

Seftin

Are you saying you would want the terminology used to be substituted from he to she for game mechanics etc if you played a transgender character?

Kiet

Seftin said:

Are you saying you would want the terminology used to be substituted from he to she for game mechanics etc if you played a transgender character?

That is generally what transgender people do IRL. In fact, in less-conservative places they can change their birth certificate/IDs etc. to refer to them as they wish.

It took me 10 seconds to do a search for 'transgender' to figure out this isn't the first time this is brought up: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/205246 Unsurprisingly people were about as clueless then, too.  There's clearly some people that would want that, but given how that thread went, it's no surprise no one that's actually trans would speak up.

Tharvis

Kiet said:

Seftin said:

Are you saying you would want the terminology used to be substituted from he to she for game mechanics etc if you played a transgender character?

That is generally what transgender people do IRL. In fact, in less-conservative places they can change their birth certificate/IDs etc. to refer to them as they wish.

It took me 10 seconds to do a search for 'transgender' to figure out this isn't the first time this is brought up: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/205246 Unsurprisingly people were about as clueless then, too.  There's clearly some people that would want that, but given how that thread went, it's no surprise no one that's actually trans would speak up.

@Kiet this is probably the most important reply (and the only one really worth quoting in that entire thread) 
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/205266/#Comment_205266
If you're referring to changing game mechanics and how the game engine refers to the player's chosen gender, that is

Kiet

That was only really addressing the non-binary genders part of the post, though, and that's not what people were talking about this time. I only linked the thread to show that this isn't a random one-off topic and that people aren't very good at handling it. In the search, you could see people ranting about how people handled that thread, too.

Trevize

I would prefer not to know someone's gender until I meet them IG or hear about it from someone else. I am the same way as regards biological sex. Ask anyone who's heard me call novices/strangers by the wrong sex. I dislike using honours to check and prefer to guess and make the normal mistakes. To me, that's more realistic.

Once I see them/hear someone mention their biological sex, I then refer to them correctly. I would expect the same of gender. This as how it is in real life, so to me that adds realism/flavour, and 'giving away' the gender through honours/pronouns in game output would detract from said game flavour for me.

The above is primarily true because I see honours/pronouns/etc as a mechnical limitation/convenience, and not a 'worldwide telepathy phonebook whatever.'

I can see where it could be more convenient, but to me the game is made more fun by increased realism.

Tibitha

Trevize said:

I would prefer not to know someone's gender until I meet them IG or hear about it from someone else. I am the same way as regards biological sex. Ask anyone who's heard me call novices/strangers by the wrong sex. I dislike using honours to check and prefer to guess and make the normal mistakes. To me, that's more realistic.

Once I see them/hear someone mention their biological sex, I then refer to them correctly. I would expect the same of gender. This as how it is in real life, so to me that adds realism/flavour, and 'giving away' the gender through honours/pronouns in game output would detract from said game flavour for me.

The above is primarily true because I see honours/pronouns/etc as a mechnical limitation/convenience, and not a 'worldwide telepathy phonebook whatever.'

I can see where it could be more convenient, but to me the game is made more fun by increased realism.

On that I've often wondered howd work if you couldnt see someone's name until theyre introduced to you in some way.

Obviously it has serious pvp implications and will probably be a massive pain in the butt. So im not even vaguely suggesting this as an idea, its just a thought that occurs to me every now and then.

Hrm... it should totally be possible to implement this client side. For shits and giggles.

Trevize

Tibitha said:

Trevize said:

I would prefer not to know someone's gender until I meet them IG or hear about it from someone else. I am the same way as regards biological sex. Ask anyone who's heard me call novices/strangers by the wrong sex. I dislike using honours to check and prefer to guess and make the normal mistakes. To me, that's more realistic.

Once I see them/hear someone mention their biological sex, I then refer to them correctly. I would expect the same of gender. This as how it is in real life, so to me that adds realism/flavour, and 'giving away' the gender through honours/pronouns in game output would detract from said game flavour for me.

The above is primarily true because I see honours/pronouns/etc as a mechnical limitation/convenience, and not a 'worldwide telepathy phonebook whatever.'

I can see where it could be more convenient, but to me the game is made more fun by increased realism.

On that I've often wondered howd work if you couldnt see someone's name until theyre introduced to you in some way.

Obviously it has serious pvp implications and will probably be a massive pain in the butt. So im not even vaguely suggesting this as an idea, its just a thought that occurs to me every now and then.

Hrm... it should totally be possible to implement this client side. For shits and giggles.

I've played MUDs like that. They're much more RP-heavy than Achaea. It works for them, but it wouldn't work for Achaea from a mechanical standpoint.

A shame too, because I absolutely loved it.

Elowin

I bet we know the same MUD, @Trevize. I remember not being allowed to mention other MUDs on the forums, but to give you a hint: I played a Thief/Rogue named Angwe and Rogues did kung-fu.

Trevize

Elowin said:

I bet we know the same MUD, @Trevize. I remember not being allowed to mention other MUDs on the forums, but to give you a hint: I played a Thief/Rogue named Angwe and Rogues did kung-fu.

Let's not discuss that here. Dropped you a message in Achaea.

Jeslyn

Tibitha said:

Trevize said:

I would prefer not to know someone's gender until I meet them IG or hear about it from someone else. I am the same way as regards biological sex. Ask anyone who's heard me call novices/strangers by the wrong sex. I dislike using honours to check and prefer to guess and make the normal mistakes. To me, that's more realistic.

Once I see them/hear someone mention their biological sex, I then refer to them correctly. I would expect the same of gender. This as how it is in real life, so to me that adds realism/flavour, and 'giving away' the gender through honours/pronouns in game output would detract from said game flavour for me.

The above is primarily true because I see honours/pronouns/etc as a mechnical limitation/convenience, and not a 'worldwide telepathy phonebook whatever.'

I can see where it could be more convenient, but to me the game is made more fun by increased realism.

On that I've often wondered howd work if you couldnt see someone's name until theyre introduced to you in some way.

Obviously it has serious pvp implications and will probably be a massive pain in the butt. So im not even vaguely suggesting this as an idea, its just a thought that occurs to me every now and then.

Hrm... it should totally be possible to implement this client side. For shits and giggles.

They do this in new worlds Ateraan... A pain in the ass. You lose all the names you learned when you die and have to reintroduce yourself

Jarrod

Wouldn't this be entirely workable in the confines of the mechanics in place, given some forethought?

If you want to play a transgender character, say you want to play a male who was born in a female body. Obviously you would prefer to be referred to with male pronouns, so you make your character male. You're born female though, so you describe yourself with a female description. This also allows you the avenue to transform yourself into a male actually as time goes on as well.

I apologize if I'm missing something, but it seems the only thing the above wouldn't encompass is mechanically allowing intolerant people to hate on you because you say male and the the game says female, for example.

Kiet

That doesn't do much if someone wants to role-play a character that transitions after age 18, though.

Elowin

Jeslyn said:

Tibitha said:

Trevize said:

They do this in new worlds Ateraan... A pain in the ass. You lose all the names you learned when you die and have to reintroduce yourself

Shhhh!