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  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There are no other major tournaments except Twins and the combat rankings. Not that are run by the administration at any rate. Pretty sure both of those also take place inside arenas, and I thought the Announce post said the locket can't be used in the arena, so I don't think there's going to be an issue.
  • VansittartVansittart Member Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Honest question: if it's useless in PvP, why are people arguing for its retention?  Why not make it PvE only if, as people seem to be arguing, it is functionally useless elsewhere?
    DaeirTael
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tharvis said:
    what other promotional artefacts are there that have a pvp use? That pendant that teleports you to the bar? Not even sure if that -is- useable in fights like that
    I'ma bring my atlatls, Ugrach's scorpion, taug, locket, husks, eq gem, war veil, flagon, compass of the ranger, staff, 5 dmg pets, and just pound the ground with earthshaker while dcursing sensi during the next event and just watch everyone hopelessly die.
    image
    Rangor
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Seems like it'll be fair game during PvP world events a la the Reckoning (if something like that ever happens again, which it should!), but not during standard tournaments. I guess that's not so bad. Still pretty strong for open-world stuff though.
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's on about the same level as using artefact pets to store corpses.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Touche. Should probably do something about that.
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mishgul said:
    It's on about the same level as using artefact pets to store corpses.
    Daeir said:
    Touche. Should probably do something about that.
    Corpses drop from artefact pets under certain circumstances

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well the people who die with the locket will drop corpses too, but you can't hinder the pet from being moved back to a safe location, unless you like specificallly manage to sleeplock the person in question, before they can react.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    Well if it's 1 out of 15 globes to find a shard, expect to invest $1379.94 for a level 20 locket (like ~3000cr worth??!!).

    Shard's credit price IG is too low.
    Except that's not how math works, cause you're getting value from the other 14/15 globes.
    Huh. Neat.
    PraxidesValkyn
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Grandue said:
     I could care less about dolls and figurines and mini-pets, those promotions suck in my opinion because I'm uninterested in those things but you don't see combatants insulting IRE and accusing them of greed and ruining the game they love
    I agree with pretty much everything you said in that post, but I have to point out that yes, yes you do see combatants accusing IRE of greed and ruining the game. Not all. Maybe not even many, but at the very least a very vocal minority.
    Huh. Neat.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kayeil said:
    A crown sale is WAAAY overdue. The demand has been high for a while for people wanting crowns for what's already in the SoW. Add new items and they'll be bringing in the cash.

    Side note: I'm horribly sick and somehow wrote "Add nude items" but luckily I caught it before posting. :expressionless: 
    Plus there's been an utter lack of crown trades since they added all the new ones :(

    I just want mah damned token, people.
    Huh. Neat.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2015
    Immortality notwithstanding (still think it'd be pretty ridiculous with smart use, lyre+lifestone on proc, swap mana prio and touch crystal tattoo shortly after safe), the other effects look to be pretty potent as well. Unless I'm missing something, couldn't you just get an ally to kill you within the timeout window to deny the kill easily?

    Fully charged locked at max rank is a 20% wp or ed battery on demand, which is not at all a bad thing against a lot of classes. Can't think of much else/anything that gives this sort of boon, entirely possible I am missing something. A niche use, sure, but I am absolutely certain that this aspect of the locket if nothing else, will become a common use for it.

    Rage also looks to be tremendously understated depending on how much it can hold. Provided it holds enough, you could have a few people with charged lockets instantly able to unload full rage combos onto honors mobs or guard stacks to make them manageable where they were otherwise impossible. Three times a day.

    My chief issue with all this isn't so much that it exists, but rather that it is on a promotional artefact that is probably going to be incredibly hard to obtain after this a la talisman artefacts. It just plays into this whole game of "people see artefact with cool effect, buy globes to try and get pieces, get disappointed when they get one and realize it's going to cost them hundreds of dollars/credits to get what they actually wanted in the first place". The only people that really benefit from this stuff is IRE and maybe the two people that manage to finish the things in the first place. This and the talisman model bother me tremendously as a whole, and I say that having finished a number of talisman artefacts to begin with.

    Like, did Qwindor ever get his bowstring in the end? I'm not going off my rocker like this just to solicit heedless negativity, it just all seems so.. why? Why not just offer the shards at a cheaper price now for people, and put them in a shop later?
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    ITT: use of the word immortality is OP. @Jhui  is a wretched villain for making so much fking money being a badass that he's a badass in a fake world. Slippery slope arguments. (I'll admit, don't want IRE sliding into strict pay to win, but this isn't it.) and people begging to get forceboarded (crown trade would be Christmas. Three ships just waiting to sink dat ass + a crown deal on each?! Christmas come early!)
    image
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2015
    Can't we have an actively staffed and enjoyable Achaea that also doesn't frontload cool things into massively gated promotional purchases?

    Crowns and the Shop of Wonders. Put the shards in the shop of wonder for two mayan crowns each, hold a tiered credit sale and HOLY SHIT MONEY. Actually, just having a tiered sale in general right now would probably have people (myself included) vomit cash into your bank accounts. Besides that, at least people have a chance of slowly plodding their way to a locket through in-game methods as well instead of being limited solely to credits.

    I'm not one to harp on about doing what you need to do to survive as a business, and I definitely don't want to see Achaea go down the sinkhole. Not asking you to put stuff out there for free, and if this is what you need to do to keep on trucking, then I've got no choice really but to shut up and put up about it.
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Immortality notwithstanding (still think it'd be pretty ridiculous with smart use, lyre+lifestone on proc, swap mana prio and touch crystal tattoo shortly after safe), the other effects look to be pretty potent as well.
    The "delay death" (because, let's be frank, that's what it is) is reportedly incompatible with a crystal tattoo.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Praxides
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Daeir wasn't it stated before that you won't be able to use crystal tattoo while the immortality effect is active?
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tharvis said:
    @Daeir wasn't it stated before that you won't be able to use crystal tattoo while the immortality effect is active?
    If it was, I probably didn't see it. My chief issue with the locket is a combination of the mechanics offered on it and the way in which it is being presented to people, not just one single aspect of it. It looks to be largely useless until level 20 anyway, and thankfully not as strong as it appeared initially.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Tharvis said:
    @Daeir wasn't it stated before that you won't be able to use crystal tattoo while the immortality effect is active?
    If it was, I probably didn't see it. My chief issue with the locket is a combination of the mechanics offered on it and the way in which it is being presented to people, not just one single aspect of it. It looks to be largely useless until level 20 anyway, and thankfully not as strong as it appeared initially.
    But if that makes it a shit option then just don't buy it. I was relatively unimpressed by it and won't be scrambling to get a single shard, but if others -have- to have it, whatever. There are a zillion things in Achaea that I think are overpriced/stupid, but trying to convince everyone otherwise is just going to cause yourself grief. Personally I felt minipets were kinda gimmicky when the first round came down but people still love them so whatever. No need to accuse them of trying to assuage the populace to agree just when they say they like it, want it, and it's not OP. They're not trying to get you to buy one.
    image
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Daeir said:
    Can't we have an actively staffed and enjoyable Achaea that also doesn't frontload cool things into massively gated promotional purchases?

    Crowns and the Shop of Wonders. Put the shards in the shop of wonder for two mayan crowns each, hold a tiered credit sale and HOLY SHIT MONEY. Actually, just having a tiered sale in general right now would probably have people (myself included) vomit cash into your bank accounts. Besides that, at least people have a chance of slowly plodding their way to a locket through in-game methods as well instead of being limited solely to credits.

    I'm not one to harp on about doing what you need to do to survive as a business, and I definitely don't want to see Achaea go down the sinkhole. Not asking you to put stuff out there for free, and if this is what you need to do to keep on trucking, then I've got no choice really but to shut up and put up about it.
    Most of you don't really understand what actually sells (and you don't have the data either, of course), and what people suggest would sell well is almost always what the person suggesting it wants to buy on discount (no idea if that's the case here or not). Crown sales, for instance, have always made for terrible months. 

    I would love to simply stop doing monthly promotions altogether when they involve new content, because they're an enormous drain on resources every month, across five games, and spend that energy on just adding permanent content to the games instead. But it's simply not financially viable as far as we've seen.
  • PraxidesPraxides Kansas, USAMember Posts: 58 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited August 2015
    Daeir said:
    If it was, I probably didn't see it. My chief issue with the locket is a combination of the mechanics offered on it and the way in which it is being presented to people, not just one single aspect of it. It looks to be largely useless until level 20 anyway, and thankfully not as strong as it appeared initially.
    I think it appeared strong primarily because of the fact that no one read the announce past the word "immortality". Sure, another word probably suits it better, but if people read instead of jumping onto the bandwagon of "OMG SO BROKEN" and basically posting inane repeats of what the previous posters had said there would be much less misinformation about what it does and does not do being thrown around.
    Crowns and the Shop of Wonders. Put the shards in the shop of wonder for two mayan crowns each, hold a tiered credit sale and HOLY SHIT MONEY. Actually, just having a tiered sale in general right now would probably have people (myself included) vomit cash into your bank accounts. Besides that, at least people have a chance of slowly plodding their way to a locket through in-game methods as well instead of being limited solely to credits.
    I also don't understand your rants in combination with your request for it to be sold for two crowns; with the way it is now, you've been saying how obnoxious it will be if people are rolling around with level 20 lockets, but wouldn't it be a more common occurrence if they were selling them the way you claim would make you happy?

    Globes are more fun (in my mind) than buying crowns, so I agree to disagree there. I'm sure there's others who like the concept of a somewhat cheap gamble for more credits, arties, pets, talismans and the whole slew of other stuff that comes with globes - or the ability to buy a couple globes and sell them for more credits than they would have got with that same amount of cash.

  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Makarios said:

    Reactions a bit extreme here. To approach it from a different perspective:

    Under level 20, it is heartstop. You are going to die, and to add insult to injury your killer is going to get credited anyway. They can literally walk away if they feel like it and call it a day. If they feel like killing you anyway (which, of course, any upstanding murderous Achaean does) they can just keep hitting you, as when it fires it returns you to very low health.

    At level 20, it becomes a vastly inferior version of vitality. It isn't at all like soulcage, because you will retain all of your current afflictions, gain a slight amount of health, and have the clause that if you don't manage to max out your health again you are going to die. In fact, the only relation to soulcage that the ability has is that it disables it (and transmogrify) upon firing, and will always fire before them, basically removing them from the equation entirely.

    It also does not stop instakills and only fires off of direct damage (like vitality, basically) and has a 24 hour cooldown (which before anyone asks, you cannot circumvent by making it fire directly before a day change or some such).

    Put in perspective, vitality restores around 3 times as much health, has 0 drawbacks, and has a cooldown measured in minutes rather than hours. We have also sold vitality artefacts in the past (typically owned by some of the tankiest people in the game) and they have proved pretty much a nonissue in terms of combat balance. I'd wager most people don't even realise who own them, they are so small an issue.

    If you can find a situation where this is actually a problem in terms of mechanics, I'd personally love to hear about it, and I mean that in all seriousness.

    What the hell man.  Get back to doing classleads.  @Daeir is griefing our leads. Time to guard raid targ.
    image
    PraxidesJinsunKyrra
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I recall from other threads that @Sarapis has said that globe promos are generally the biggest credit selling promos by a significant margin, and based off the amount of people marketing things that come from globes I expect that is still the case.

    Unlimited cap purchase bonuses will probably never lose to a 2000cr cap bonus scheme.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    PraxidesTahquil
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Praxides said:
    words
    Last time I'll say it since people are probably tired of hearing this by now, my issue is with making powerful things like this promotional and not something everyone has a realistic chance of obtaining. Immortality is not as bad as originally thought (thank goodness) and the other stuff is still probably pretty amazing in certain circumstances.

    If this is a thing that most people can realistically achieve then fine, no issue. Want to grind shards for mayan crowns by trading all day? Go nuts, you deserve the l20 locket. What I don't like is the notion of "I spent credits in the month of August, 2015 and got a super rare item that gives me benefits almost nobody else has". That's my issue.

    If everyone has it, eh, whatever. It's still broken, but you can do it to them as well, so who cares. It opens up new strategies for everyone, instead of just new strategies for a few people.

    That and it's just really sad to see cool shit relegated to half a dozen people.
    Praxides
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's not a powerful thing.

    It's not broken.

    The gift boxes from last December are more powerful than a level 20 locket.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    PraxidesTaelRangor
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,871 Achaean staff
    Jhui said:
    Makarios said:

    Reactions a bit extreme here. To approach it from a different perspective:

    Under level 20, it is heartstop. You are going to die, and to add insult to injury your killer is going to get credited anyway. They can literally walk away if they feel like it and call it a day. If they feel like killing you anyway (which, of course, any upstanding murderous Achaean does) they can just keep hitting you, as when it fires it returns you to very low health.

    At level 20, it becomes a vastly inferior version of vitality. It isn't at all like soulcage, because you will retain all of your current afflictions, gain a slight amount of health, and have the clause that if you don't manage to max out your health again you are going to die. In fact, the only relation to soulcage that the ability has is that it disables it (and transmogrify) upon firing, and will always fire before them, basically removing them from the equation entirely.

    It also does not stop instakills and only fires off of direct damage (like vitality, basically) and has a 24 hour cooldown (which before anyone asks, you cannot circumvent by making it fire directly before a day change or some such).

    Put in perspective, vitality restores around 3 times as much health, has 0 drawbacks, and has a cooldown measured in minutes rather than hours. We have also sold vitality artefacts in the past (typically owned by some of the tankiest people in the game) and they have proved pretty much a nonissue in terms of combat balance. I'd wager most people don't even realise who own them, they are so small an issue.

    If you can find a situation where this is actually a problem in terms of mechanics, I'd personally love to hear about it, and I mean that in all seriousness.

    What the hell man.  Get back to doing classleads.  @Daeir is griefing our leads. Time to guard raid targ.

    Don't you worry at all.

    Telepathy ones are up next.

    Morthif
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Brb going int monk.
    image
  • ItkovianItkovian Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Makarios said:

    At level 20, it becomes a vastly inferior version of vitality.

    But is that actually the case? Unless the AB description on the wiki is out of date, Vitality does not fire at 0 health, but only when you cross a low health threshold (and will not work if you go straight through that threshold to 0 health). If you are taken instantly from full health to 0 you still die, yes? This is unlike Immortality.

    Thus, my concern with damage-based finishers. With those it is quite common to bypass vitality entirely, which would not be the case with the immortality effect.

    With it, a disembowel that would otherwise kill the target through damage (even from full health, for some Runewardens) would fail to do so. Meanwhile, classes that rely on non-damage finishers would be completely unaffected. This is cause for concern, particularly since many of these damage-based finishers are just as difficult to execute as others unaffected by this new time.

    Or, if you prefer, imagine a scenario with top fighters of different classes, say a Serpent and a Runewarden, both with this new item at level 20. If the Runewarden executes a perfect torso disembowel, the Serpent has a very good chance of escaping and resetting the fight. Conversely, the Serpent has at least two options to kill the Runewarden that would bypass Immortality entirely. Thus, class balance is most definitely affected by this new effect.

    This is, of course, assuming damage-based finishers don't bypass Immortality.

    Thank you.
    Tael
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