June Promo: Build-Your-Own-Artefact package *swoon*

Tharvis

so a renting program with a specific price per artefact over a course of specified months, and when you go over a specific paid treshold (maybe 110% of the "impulse-buy" value of the artefact), it counts like you bought it?

What do you guys think of that, and @Sarapis - has this ever been considered?
It might attract more attention/revenue.

Sarapis

Yes, it's been considered, but we don't think it'd have a net positive effect.

Vicious

I don't know, that's like saying McDonalds will go up in price if they increase their worker's wages. And I don't believe all that. But I do like the pictures you take from your awesome vacations that I pay for. Really pretty.

Atalkez

Vicious said:

I don't know, that's like saying McDonalds will go up in price if they increase their worker's wages. And I don't believe all that. But I do like the pictures you take from your awesome vacations that I pay for. Really pretty.

This is like saying you pay police officers and firefighters salary. -You- just contribute. It was mentioned earlier that he has other things beside IRE.

Asking for lower prices will 100% lead to less revenue which can lead to a layoff of 1 or 2 people. Achaea pricing is consistent with a small game trying to survive and support itself in a wildly out dated timeframe. They don't get enough fresh new lasting customers to feasibly drop prices further and operate the same.

McDonald's makes billions a year. I'd be surprised if Achaea profits more than 100000 a year.

Sarapis

@Atalkez All of our profits go to pay for the staff at our private island anyway. I thought that was commonly known. Coders need butlers too, damn it.

Atalkez

Sarapis said:

@Atalkez All of our profits go to pay for the staff at our private island anyway. I thought that was commonly known. Coders need butlers too, damn it.

Where can I reserve my underwater hotel at said island?

Trilliana

Sarapis said:

Yes, it's been considered, but we don't think it'd have a net positive effect.

If I recall, Midkemia has something similar (mind you, I only know what I do because my husband plays it) But I think it's more akin to how our relics work rather than trying out artefacts. I may, in fact, be wrong.

Sarapis

The underwater hotel is under repair after an attack by disgruntled Caspiiites. 

Aktillum

Alaskar said:

It's not the lack of income people are pointing to. It's the value of the items they're buying. Is a game worth 6,000?  That's a nice motorcycle. Or a decent vehicle. Or a renovation on a house. I love, and will continue to support, Achaea, but I will never drop 4-600 on an artefact. I'll let my monthly credits accrue, and maybe in 10 years I'll have everything, assuming Achaea is still around, and I still have the time and interest in playing it. The point is, that type of pricing and thinking applies to an even smaller group of people. For every one person you tried achaea and decides to do that I bet you can find 5 who aren't interested in saving up for 10 years to have everything they can have in a game. There are alternatives.

For artefacts, there could be rental programs. Maybe a bonus feature of IRE. You get an artefact or two, per month, and every so often you can upgrade it to get another artefact, etc. Lower the price of artefacts and credits, but reduce the number you can buy, per month, in game. I think there is a happy medium somewhere, even if we can't readily identify it, but there are a lot of questions about which direction it would push the game that should be asked.

In 15 years of Achaea, I've personally spent maybe a grand. I could've spent more, but there were lots of other things I've spent money on. My Steam library is about 60+ games, valued at around $700. I was also a pack-a-day cigarette smoker, at like $5 a pack. Was killing my lungs worth $35 a week? Definitely not. I quit smoking a couple years ago, and I'm also no longer in my early 20s with tons of disposable income, I'm a family man with priorities now (stupid priorities).

Is Achaea worth $6,000? Not to you or me. I have a few artes, like a sash+collar and buckawns, but nothing extravagant or luxurious like eagle's wings or 10 pairs of earrings. I don't even want those artes, they're just luxuries with fringe benefits. But for people who can drop $2,000 in one transaction without blinking, those artes are basically status symbols. Little else, really, I mean artefact dirks? You're paying for milliseconds. I'd actually rather be an awesome coder who knew every little trick in Achaea combat, like Ayoxele or Santar, than be artied to the teeth. Sadly, I'm neither.

When you compare those artefacts to real life things like oh, a full set of artes could be a new motorcycle or a house renovation, you're right if those things actually matter to people. Ironically, I'm actually in the middle of a house renovation myself. I'd like to take advantage of this promo, but we're in the middle of expanding our kitchen and all the construction materials + labour is coming out to like $1200 total. So no promo goodness for me But again, priorities.

For the big-spenders in Achaea, they can afford a set of artes and those things you mentioned without blinking. A fully artied Targossian was bragging to me they make $30/hr as a coder. I was like, jesus christ dude, I remember being stoked when I made $10/hr as a tech support agent. Thats the person all the extravagant artes appeal to. For us peasants, we scrounge and save, but like you said there are alternatives. This isn't a post about alternatives though. This post is about people deciding if they want cheaper artefacts because they're a necessity, or if people want cheaper artefacts because the rich kids have them and damnit, we deserve fancy artefacts too.

I've seen "middle ground" get thrown around in this thread in reference to a grey area where IRE is missing out on customer demand. I can't think of a "middle ground" that would be satisfactory to everyone. This promo could be a pretty good middle ground, since a basic set of level 1 defensive arties (level 1 health, sip, regen) will cost you $255. Now, are those items worth $255? Worth is objective. We'll go in circles for eternity debating that one. But what else are you going to buy with $255 that has better value for your buck, entertainment-wise? If the argument here is getting the most value for your dollar, then give all your money to charity. You won't get any physical, tangible reward, but you'll get a warm fuzzy feeling in your tummy that you can't put a price on. Lol.

Alaskar

Like I said, just thoughts and questions I've had. I'm curious, and not sure if it's been said elsewhere, but would you guys share how many new players check the game out a month, and what percent on average stick around after a month? I've just always been kind of curious, and it'd be interesting to know. Or what the current active population is. Or really any numbers on players that wouldn't be too revealing or anything.

Sarapis

@Alaskar The # that come in and the % that stick largely depend on if we're advertising that month or not. Most months, we're not, as we've been spending more than we're getting back from the players that come in. That's aside from TMS, where our placement on the voting list gets us some traffic that's highly-qualified (meaning they're probably interested in MUDs). 

As a real-world example, in September of 2014:
 * 2583 people started character creation
 * 1265 completed character creation
 * 914 were still playing after 5 minutes of playing time.
 * 528 were still playing after 20 minutes of playing time.
 * 229 were still playing after 1 hour of playing time.
 * 97 were still playing after 5 hours of playing time.
 * 58 were still playing after 10 hours of playing time.

And it goes down from there, obviously. 58 is 2.2% of the 2583 people that began character creation.

Andregor

This pains me. It really does. Said company comes out with a product, said company decides on the margin they want to make on said product, company sets prices and customers come or they don't. Clearly we (customers) are coming in at an amount sufficient to sustain the game at the price level set... So let's just go and enjoy it instead of asking for more for free/cheap   (more then the entire game, that is). @Sarapis is a much better human then me, I'd ban everyone from the forums that created any $/delete that arti related threads at this point. Maybe this is why I am not in customer service. Going back to my corner now.

Alaskar

That includes alts, I assume? Still, an interesting insight, thanks. Overall, I'm content to sit and wait for my bound credits to accrue, and eventually buy a shield and maybe a diadem, which will only take like a year, but I think discussion is good, and sharing stuff like that makes everyone feel a little better about the whole topic. In my opinion, at least.

Sarapis

No, that doesn't include alts, at least where we can detect them.

Amranu

Achaea should put itself on Steam. 2.2% of 100000 is a lot better than 2.2% of 2500.

Tharvis

how feasible is it to put a html client on Steam?

Sarapis

Achaea would never make it onto Steam.

Tesha

Is there anything we can do about that? What would it take for Achaea to make it to Steam? Is it just a genre problem?

Alaskar

The bigger question, what can we as players do to really improve the amount of players you get and retain?

Aktillum

Tesha said:

Is there anything we can do about that? What would it take for Achaea to make it to Steam? Is it just a genre problem?

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765&section=faq

I have a game that runs in a web browser – can I submit it to Steam Greenlight?

Games distributed by Steam must be able to launch and run as stand-alone applications. If you have a browser-based game, you will need to create a version that can operate as a stand-alone executable and not require use of the customer's web browser.

Plus IRE would have to share revenue with Steam.

Sarapis

Getting pretty off-topic here!

Sarapis

Alaskar said:

The bigger question, what can we as players do to really improve the amount of players you get and retain?

Probably best to start a new thread about that!

Kyrra

When I first started playing Achaea, I was really enchanted with the idea of artefacts. I was still in high school, I had no money, and when I was stuck visiting my grandparents for months at a time with no internet, I used to make sketches of customisations for items that I wanted. Any credits that I did buy (because they make awesome birthday and Christmas presents, and also as bribes for taking out facial piercings that your father just cannot stand seeing) were mostly put toward lessons for skills and and it probably wouldn't be for another seven or so years that I'd actually buy artefacts for Kyrra.

Within a two year period after I came back from dormancy, I spent a -lot- on Achaea. Mostly due to a disposable income and having zero social life because of the hours that I was working. I like Achaea, I keep coming back to play, and I'm the sort of person that wants to contribute back to the things I enjoy so they'd be around longer.

In that two year period, I've made a bunch of alts that I artied up. I think two or three of them were created around the time that arti package sales were up on the website and I was convenient to start up a character with a pack and pipes. Seeing a promo like this current one is just absolutely amazing, and I hope that it won't be a first and last type scenario.

I've never really regretted the money that I've poured into IRE though. I've gotten things that made me happy. I've gotten things for friends that made them happy (after they realised that arguing was futile and that it's dangerous to mention "I wish I had..." around me). For quite a while I took up the mantle of being the credit fairy and used the promos to just do nice random things for strangers because I'm the sort of person that believes that sometimes it's just nice to do things for people without wanting anything in return. 

Someone I know recently came back to playing too, and within just a fortnight, they've done enough hunting to get a couple hundred credits off the in game market in just a couple of hours a day. That's pretty fantastic. People can totally achieve things in game without spending the cash on credits, it just takes a little longer and you've got to be motivated. House/City credit sales are cheaper than market prices. Get involved with organisation run contests. Hell, I recently won a whole 8 credits in a Ministry run contest just doing what I do regularly anyway. It might not seem like a huge amount, but they do add up after a while.

Lots of things are absolutely possible if you want to make them happen in game, and with promos, there are plenty of people willing to trade credits to acquire things so you don't miss out. Pretty sure @Trey and a few others would great advice on this. 

Aodfionn

Alaskar said:

The bigger question, what can we as players do to really improve the amount of players you get and retain?

Not to steal from Sarapis' incoming (or already being typed) thunder, but I think this one is a lot easier to answer than most people realize.

This is a multiplayer game. Whether it's the RP or the PK, we all want more people to play with. Making this an open and inclusive environment. Going out of one's way to help make interactions with novices a little more eventful or interesting. Finding ways to help keep them and everyone else not only involved, but actively having fun being involved. 

You don't have to be leadership to do this. Hell, you don't even have to be a member of a faction; just do what you can to make our game environment a bit more positive and a bit more enjoyable than it was when you were new. Reach out to new players even if they're outside your usual social circle. The more people feel like this is a game where they not only have fun but actively feel like they have something they want to add to it via their character or participation, the more you will see people sticking around for the decades-long long haul.

Silvarien

@Sarapis , @Tecton : I think most of us will just be complaining about this promo being for one rl month. Extending it for another rl month would be nice!

Medi

I don't think lowering credit prices would be helpful for the game unless many of the artefacts are deleted/reworked (There are enough veils as is!) While the prices are too high for me to arte another alt, I think they're pretty reasonable. As the numbers Sarapis posted above show, there is a very small percentage of people actually interested in playing this kind of game, and perhaps they could get more interest with lower prices but I don't think those are the types of players they want to populate the game with.

I would argue for more no-brainer lesson packages, though. It's like cheaper credits, but doesn't flood the game with artes.

When multiclass comes, can we be given the option to consolidate some dormant alts? Please? @Sarapis

Makaela

... Wishes I saved all my money on credits for the past two months on this

Jules

I have zero problems with this promo and I actually appreciate it when I'm not forced to do a bunch of number crunching to quantify my bad decisions (which I, nonetheless, enjoy immensely).  In fact, I view it as not treating me like I'm too stupid as a customer to figure out what I'm spending, laugh my ass off, and do it anyway.  That said, I think we've established that there's more than one type of customer here, and the ones who normally hide their heads in the sand might actually be forced to do a sanity check with a promo like this.  Anyway, I still think it's a great promo, not only because it's a pretty good deal (within our strange microcosm of funding fancy, fun to play games with a relatively small number of players), but because I feel like it's "straight up", and that appeals to me immensely.

Katzchen

I have to agree on cheaper lessons. The no-brainer packages have helped in that direction, but I'm not sure they're enough. Arties might not be compulsory to the game, but lessons are for most of it. I've looked at changing class, and just end up writing it off as 'not an option' when it costs around 450 credits just for the lessons. If it cost me $20 instead, in buying lessons direct? Hell yes I'd go for it just to try it out. That's $20 that doesn't become anything 'real' in game, or dilute the economy (much), just let's me enjoy playing another class. 

Sarapis

Aodfionn said:

Alaskar said:

The bigger question, what can we as players do to really improve the amount of players you get and retain?

Not to steal from Sarapis' incoming (or already being typed) thunder, but I think this one is a lot easier to answer than most people realize.

This is a multiplayer game. Whether it's the RP or the PK, we all want more people to play with. Making this an open and inclusive environment. Going out of one's way to help make interactions with novices a little more eventful or interesting. Finding ways to help keep them and everyone else not only involved, but actively having fun being involved. 

You don't have to be leadership to do this. Hell, you don't even have to be a member of a faction; just do what you can to make our game environment a bit more positive and a bit more enjoyable than it was when you were new. Reach out to new players even if they're outside your usual social circle. The more people feel like this is a game where they not only have fun but actively feel like they have something they want to add to it via their character or participation, the more you will see people sticking around for the decades-long long haul.

At the risk of continuing to derail, yes, that is true.

The #1 thing that help newbies stay is forming friendships/bonds with other players. If you want to help, the single best thing you can do is be aggressively, proactively inclusive with newbies.