Commodity Market Tweak

Trey

In viewing the commodities market, and confirmed in conversation with someone today, there are a few instances where people are using the commodities market to store the overflow from their rifts. (Example - There are over 20,000 wood for 'sale' in the commodities market for 600gp per to ensure that they aren't bought). While clever, I don't really feel like this is an intended feature of the market, given the existence of Prosperian Vaults to expand your storage already. I haven't thought of a way to change it yet, so I thought I'd open a discussion on the topic.

Thoughts?

Tahquil

Agree. Fuck 'em.

Tharvis

how about a time limit of how long they can be put up there?

Trey

Tharvis said:

how about a time limit of how long they can be put up there?

Interesting idea, could work. What do you think a reasonable time limit would be? What would the best way to return unbought commodities be?

Tharvis

Trey said:

Tharvis said:

how about a time limit of how long they can be put up there?

Interesting idea, could work. What do you think a reasonable time limit would be? What would the best way to return unbought commodities be?

ingame year - 12.5 days, maybe?
as for returning, letters maybe, or parcels?

Though I doubt this'll be implemented, if you look at CREDITS ALL OFFERS there's a few high numbers there too, possibly people setting them there while saving up to make sure others don't buy them - while being less tempted to use them themselves before they've reached their quota.

Shirszae

There's already a time limit of one year, after which you get the commodities back. 

Trey

Tharvis said:

Trey said:

Tharvis said:

how about a time limit of how long they can be put up there?

Interesting idea, could work. What do you think a reasonable time limit would be? What would the best way to return unbought commodities be?

ingame year - 12.5 days, maybe?
as for returning, letters maybe, or parcels?

Though I doubt this'll be implemented, if you look at CREDITS ALL OFFERS there's a few high numbers there too, possibly people setting them there while saving up to make sure others don't buy them - while being less tempted to use them themselves before they've reached their quota.

That's true about the credit market, but at that point there's presumably no limit to how many credits you can carry, so you're not bypassing a limit like you can with commodities. 

Trey

Shirszae said:

There's already a time limit of one year, after which you get the commodities back. 

Aha. Still, problem remains. 

Jurixe

I'd suggest simply a limit of how much you can put there for sale at one time - perhaps no more than 5000 of one type of commodity. 

A second fix for people who overbuy would perhaps be to put decay times on the commodities, which I hope would decrease the overbuying somewhat. With rifts currently at 2500 and perhaps the ability to sell 5000 commodities, there's certainly space to make a profit still.

You could just put them in your stockrooms and stasis bags, of course, but there's nothing stopping this from happening now and it would mean that they are somewhere not completely invulnerable to theft. Plus, the number of people who have access to such is less than the number of people who have ships and other ''safe rooms'' where they can't be touched. 

Jarrod

Easiest solution is to require an investment to place items on the commodity market.

0.05 x Quantity x Price per Unit = market surcharge to sell

Return the added cost on commodity purchase.

Inuad

Jurixe said:

A second fix for people who overbuy would perhaps be to put decay times on the commodities, which I hope would decrease the overbuying somewhat. With rifts currently at 2500 and perhaps the ability to sell 5000 commodities, there's certainly space to make a profit still.

You could just put them in your stockrooms and stasis bags, of course, but there's nothing stopping this from happening now and it would mean that they are somewhere not completely invulnerable to theft. Plus, the number of people who have access to such is less than the number of people who have ships and other ''safe rooms'' where they can't be touched. 

I'd really rather not see commodities have decay times.

Why not include some kind of non-refundable fee for using the market? Based on either the number of commodities you are selling, or scaled based on the price.  An "auctioneer permit" could be offered for a large gold sum which would remove the fee.

Kyrra

Greater vaults mean commodities = 10k in rifts. Totally worth the investment, with the amount of times I used to collect 10000 steel just for fun.

Not to mention 10k herbs/minerals, and more of everything else too.

Borran

How about cities take responsibility for their commodity markets and hold their Treasurers accountable. Achaea's supposed to be a game that the players have a part in running, but every time we get a chance for interaction, we want to hand it over to a hard-coded solution.

Skye

I think we're talking about the Delos comm market which is an open market for anyone to sell and has no player control.

Austere

Personally, if you add a surcharge to add commodities to the comm market,  I will just use regular market.  I suspect that I am not the only one, and I doubt this is the intention at all.  I think the negatives outweigh the positives there.  

Jarrod

You would, instead of using the non-interactive Delos comm market, increase player to player interaction?

Seems like a rough solution, you're right.

Morthif

Actually I like the idea of charging an upfront fee based on quantity and price that gets completely refunded upon sale of the comms. Stopping the market to be used as a storage locker

Austere

Jarrod said:

You would, instead of using the non-interactive Delos comm market, increase player to player interaction?

Seems like a rough solution, you're right.

I agree. At that point though, why not just delete the system all together? 

Trey

Well, I don't  necessarily think it needs to go away completely. For people who have limited time in Achaea, being able to legitimately sell comms in absentia is nice. Just needs to be repercussions or drawbacks for using it with no intent to sell, imo.

Tahquil

Pay 10% of the appointed price just to stick them up there. Get it back when you sell the comms and lose it if you take the comms off the market.

Jules

Man, talk about something that I could theoretically argue is my business/affects me (but is pretty much not my business at all, might BUG it if you really think it's just the WORST).  Where do I sign up?  I get it I get it, some guys are getting away with using the comms market as extra storage while some people may have bought the vaults, and while that's the real reason you're mad, oh by the way if they're forced to sell it will be good for the comm shortage, yeah... that's it.  Or something.  In all seriousness, and to be fair, it's exactly the sort of thing that tends to annoy me, but it seems awfully petty to be discussing (at length, even) on Dais.  Also, it's shitty (but also the sort of thing a lot of people seem to usually support as totally legit), but has it occurred to anyone that these people are also using the pricey comms to help adjust price points in buyer's heads? 

Trey

@Jules what the fuck are you talking about?

Antonius

I got "Why the fuck do you care? Why are we even discussing this as something that needs to be changed?" from that, don't know about anybody else.

Trey

I appreciate your services as translator, sir.

Jules

Antonius probably has to go back to his real job as anger translator for the POTUS, but it sure was nice having him

Trey

To answer the semi-coherent bit of your post, it has nothing to do with some people having bought vaults and some not. It's that using the commodity market to store your overflow in a 100% theft free manner is completely bypassing the fact that there's a rift limit in the first place.

Jules

Oh no!  Anything but that!  I mean, it's bad enough that they're doing something slightly annoying and skeevy that doesn't really impact you, but how dare anyone try to avoid an unfun, one-sided mechanic that every player is opted into by default whether they like it or not in such a dastardly manner. 

Sybilla

Jules said:

Oh no!  Anything but that!  I mean, it's bad enough that they're doing something slightly annoying and skeevy that doesn't really impact you, but how dare anyone try to avoid an unfun, one-sided mechanic that every player is opted into by default whether they like it or not in such a dastardly manner. 

This seems unnecessary, @Jules .

The purpose of this thread, as I see it, is to address two questions:

1. The commodity market is there to buy and sell commodities. Is storing commodities you don't intend to sell on the market an intended feature, or an unplanned loophole people are exploiting? Discuss.
2. If it is not an intended feature, how could the system be changed to prevent it?

It has nothing to do with who it affects or whether it benefits the OP in any way, not every discussion on mechanics has to have someone with a vested interest.

Jules

It's all good, Sybilla, just couldn't resist taking a couple good jabs at some of the galloping hypocrisy going on here.  IDEA on, people. 

Sarapis

Jules said:

Oh no!  Anything but that!  I mean, it's bad enough that they're doing something slightly annoying and skeevy that doesn't really impact you, but how dare anyone try to avoid an unfun, one-sided mechanic that every player is opted into by default whether they like it or not in such a dastardly manner. 

Yes, how dare people be exposed to the actions of other players in a massively multiplayer game world!

Jules

Well, Sarapis, you're lucky I'm still lining your pockets because some of your compatriots take a slightly less "screw you noob" point of view.