anticipating multiclass combat

Brean

Tael said:

Nizana said:

Venser said:

How would traits/specialisation work in multiclass? Would we be able to choose differently when switching to your chosen classes?

Again, if it is like Aetolia, you would be the same trait/spec no matter what class you do. You need the artifacts to switch those freely.

Which I actually sorta like. It means that people will be incentivised to mostly pick class combinations that are at least slightly related - it's easier to do apostate/magi than it is to do paladin/magi, which might make it at least slightly less a problem for immersion.

This is veering slightly off-topic from multiclass combat (though since multiclass combat almost certainly isn't going to be much of a thing, I guess that's not too bad), but my one hope for multiclass remains to be that they actually come up with an in-world explanation for it. That's what bugged me about Aetolia - it was so blatantly meta. The whole concept of "forgetting" a class is already pretty weird (and I wish it also had an in-world explanation), but swapping in and out skillsets is even weirder and was honestly pretty immersion-breaking. I'd rather it be something more like dragons, where there's a mechanical thing going on, but justified by lore. I was hoping that the whole talisman thing was going to be part of that explanation, since they were introduced I think right around the time the multiclass discussion started - something like talismans that act as sort of "phylacteries" for knowledge of class skills, a magical object that literally swaps memories of class abilities in and out. "A wizard did it" might not be the very pinnacle of exposition, but I think it's an awful lot better than offering no explanation and expecting people to just pretend like the people around them aren't mysteriously and instantaneously gaining and losing access to vastly different knowledge and experience all the time.

Was thinking about this, we'll probably have to work it out for ourselves how to reconcile it with RP.  I'd say especially for those of you who have been around forever and know all the class ins and outs it would be easy. 

You've spent so much time learning x class that you began training in the disciplines necessary to be that class, however the mental strain of trying to keep your focus on say...kai training with elemental magics is downright impossible thus requiring you to devote your full attention to one them at a given time. 

Not sure how easy that would be to play/flesh out, but that's quick idea that came to mind after reading this.

Tezcatlipoca

Ic justification:

The gods in ages past created mystical rings of transmutation that they would give to their most loyal/holy/trusted warriors. Over the ages some of these have become lost to the mists of time.  When donning one of these mystic rings your personality mixes with that of the original divine champion who wore it, but in order to access his/her mind more fully you have to quiet your mind and let their personality somewhat take over.  Since that person has no knowledge of your class then they can't know "your" skills.

Iocun

I'm generally a big fan of having credible IC explanations for mechanical peculiarities, but in a case like this, I can't really think of anything that would feel fitting enough for all classes.

The problem is that class (or skill) identity can be based on quite different things, depending on which class we are talking about. Some skills depend on props/tools, some on internal concentration, some are granted from an outside source, some even depend on physical attributes (e.g. a serpent's fangs), some are simply trained movements, etc.

That means that a global explanation for currently not being able to use a skill/class will most likely never fit every class. It's easy to come up with something that would stop, say, elementalism from working, as its being powered by mystical external forces to begin with, but much harder with something like tekura. Any sort of magical explanation for suddenly being unable to throw a decent punch would seem immensely contrived to me.

In order to give us an adequate all-encompassing IC explanation, they'd therefore have to redefine the entire idea of classes and make all of them into some kind of magical property, which you can obtain through some esoteric means, rather than sets of skills you acquire through learning and practice. This, IMHO, would take quite a bit away from the individuality of the different classes.

So, in this instance, I'd actually prefer it if they gave no IC explanation at all, but left it to the players to either find a personal explanation, or simply suspend their disbelief and pretend nothing weird is happening.

Nizana

Just because you can't mechanically throw a punch doesn't mean you can't RP as if you can. My character in Aetolia, for example, has pretty much every class available to her. I avoid trying to explain why I don't fling tarot cards while creating earthquakes and telepathically blasting people to death. I utilize my 'off' classes through RP, because even if I don't have mechanical access to them, I still possess the classes and abilities at whatever rank I invested into them.

It probably won't be enough for some people, but it is honestly the best way to deal with this situation short of the Midkemia way, which is literally taking the memories of those classes and storing them into a ball so that you have the brain-space to learn a new one.

Jovolo

That seems kind of obnoxious. If you can't mechanically use the classes then why would you have access to the abilities? Sounds more like going against roleplay than utilising it effectively. 

Well, as long as you do it tastefully and don't imitate the actual abilities that you don't have access to it would be reasonable. 

Nizana

I don't do something like "summons a chasm from the earth to swallow you up" It's more like a subtle dusting of the class energy, so to speak. It's the same with any sort of RP. Nothing over the top that you need mechanical backing, but little bits to make it obvious that you have the talent.

An example would be that after being a bard, Nizana would be a decent duelist with her rapier, a fair singer, and know how to play her instrument with a little more skill, should I decide to pick up another class and play as it. If I still had Occultist, perhaps she'd retain slight mutations due to the many, many, many months she'd spent Transmogrifying.

If I were a Bard with Occultist class in my pocket and I walked around with flailing tentacles, that'd just be ridiculous. As with all RP, it should be reasonable.

Iocun

Jovolo said:

That seems kind of obnoxious. If you can't mechanically use the classes then why would you have access to the abilities? Sounds more like going against roleplay than utilising it effectively. 

Well, as long as you do it tastefully and don't imitate the actual abilities that you don't have access to it would be reasonable. 

I think it's always going to be somewhat of a grey area. We pretty much all RP retaining some knowledge from former classes, for instance. If my character had been a sentinel before, I would't RP suddenly having no clue of what a trap is, what it can do, what commodities are needed to create it, etc. I also wouldn't RP suddenly becoming totally clumsy when walking through the forest and not finding my way back home.

"Access to abilities" isn't a strict binary thing IC as it is mechanically, since IC, it is actually a varying mixture of many forms of knowledge, physical capabilities, and spiritual connections, some of which you may lose upon taking up different training, others of which you may well retain forever.

If you wanted to be totally strict about avoiding all parts of ability-retention whatsoever, you'd have to avoid retaining any experiences from your past, as these are also part of your former "abilities".

I think allowing your past classes to affect your roleplay in a sensible, moderate manner is pretty much a necessity for a credible character.

Borran

Everyday I check the news to see if Multi-Classing is in effect yet. Everyday, I change my mind on what classes I want to be when it does go into effect.

Today, I think Sentinel/Serpent/Monk.

Iocun

Stop stealing my dream combo.

Jinsun

I just want Druid/shaman/occie- the scary shape shifting death puppeteer of chaos

Kuy

I'll be happy when I can just have monk as an off class for raids

Nizana

Jinsun said:

I just want Druid/shaman/occie- the scary shape shifting death puppeteer of chaos

They probably won't allow cross-faction multi-classing. For that reason >.<

Sarapis

Barbarian/Pistoleer/Psysword wielder here.

Amranu

Pistoleer mmm

Trey

Sarapis said:

Barbarian/Pistoleer/Psysword wielder here.

 
 
       

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Atalkez

I still want a blunderbuss.

Borran

And once I have my Sentinel/Serpent/Monk, I can have an alt that's a magi/occie/alchemist. And another alt that's a Paladin(SnB)/Priest/Bard. And another that's a Jester/Shaman/Blademaster... The possibilities are endless!

Borran

Today, I think I want to be Sentinel/Serpent/Bard.

Borran

Today, I think I want to be Sentinel/Serpent/Magi

That Scorch instakill... and timeflux! What's this new Timeflux? I thought Retardation was retardedly good.

Borran

Today, I want to be serpent/bard/runie

Borran

I love how this thread has turned into me just putting my thoughts. I'm going to continue using it as such if no one minds.

Borran needs to be well-rounded. I think 1 physically damaging class, 1 mentally strenuous class, and 1 speed affliction class. Runie/Magi/Serpent maybe? I really don't want to go Runie unless there's some way to change specialisations, though... But maybe multi-classing will allow you to switch from Runie to something else, then come back and choose a spec again. I hope so.

Katzchen

Hmm. Would love to be Serpent/Jester, but wondering how that would work with puppetry. It wouldn't be any fun if it destroyed your puppets when you switched. Just making them unusable would be fine.

Katzchen

@Borran I imagine you'd have to get a gem of reincarnation and the trait resetting artie if you wanted to change spec/traits frequently. Arties that I'm sure would get more of a sales boost after multi class.

Borran

>.>; I already have a gem of reincarnation and I just bought the Grimoire in anticipation of multi-classing. =X

Borran

Trying to figure out what artefacts overlap on various classes the best has been my hobby for the last 6 months. Wait.. how long ago was Multi-Class announced? That's when I started.

Borran

I just realized that once Multi-Classing has been implemented, I will probably be stuck with the same dilemma- I'll have one or two classes that I keep and then cycle through the other class based on my whims. 

Also, looking back into the history of Multi-Class topics... WAY back... I saw it was in the June 2013 Terraforming Updates. How long until this is a thing, @Silas. 

Tahquil

Want priest. That's about all I care for. Maybe BM just to make swords over and over.

Borran

2nd Anniversary of Multi-Class announcement. Yay! 

Ahmet

Borran said:

2nd Anniversary of Multi-Class announcement. Yay!

Two down, only 3 to go!

Synbios

Tahquil said:

Want priest. That's about all I care for. Maybe BM just to make swords over and over.

Synbios: *faces Tahquil glumly* Uh, Tahquil.
Tahquil: *brightly returns the glare* Yes?
Synbios: *scratching eldritch neck nervously* I know this sounds weird...but I think your obsession with bladenames is getting out of hand.
Tahquil: What? Obsessed? *subtle eyebrow twitch* I'm not obsessed at all!
Synbios: You've been forging blademaster swords and pestering blademasters for their ashes for the past few hours.
Tahquil: *tilts head in what seems to be an innocent manner* Nonsense~ it's only a few tries. You know, until I get a cool name or something...
Synbios's ocular receptors narrow, before pressing a button with a noodly appendage. Camera zooms out: