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anticipating multiclass combat

KaijinKaijin Member Posts: 29 ✭✭ - Stalwart
I started this discussion with 3 main purposes in mind.

1:  To generate discussion on which classes people think will synergize well with one another.  For example what would be the advantage of apostate/jester over runewarden/bard (just random examples)

2.  To discuss what new strategies this opens up, which strategies will be rendered obsolete, and how to negate various classes under different scenarios.  So if say magi are normally weak against serpent they could multiclass with something that covers that weakness better, but what would be the costs to this? (Ie less offensive potential, etc)

3.  To preempt combos that will likely be nerfed because they are unexpectedly gamebreaking (I definitely don't want to sink a bunch of credits into something that seems interesting and strong only to have it nerfed a few months down the line and be left with a frustrating combination).

4.  I just thought of this, but to generate discussion of class combos that you think would be interesting, would do for roleplay even if not necessarily "the best", are really excited about in general for reasons other than mechanics.  

Thanks in advance!
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Comments

  • AquilAquil Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    If it's anything like Aetolia you cannot switch mid-combat, you can only switch every few hours, and they must be in line with your faction. So no priest/infernal mixes. Class defenses will not pass and things like rune armor will not work the moment you change back to monk or something.
    But who knows, may be different than Aetolia!

    Utianima
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,520 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    0% chance that multiclass will let you have the ability to use more than one skillset at the same time.

    JovoloSlinkKygoUtianima
  • MeradorMerador Member Posts: 107
    Cooper said:
    0% chance that multiclass will let you have the ability to use more than one skillset at the same time.
    That was mostly my feeling, though I'll give it a generous 0.1%.
    UtianimaTvistor
  • KaijinKaijin Member Posts: 29 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    *wipes the egg feom his face*

    Well anyhow, a lot of this still applies, for example if you are being griefed in underworld you can still swap classes for bashing or something.

    Also ypu could have a pvp class and a raiding class or an rp class and a defense class or something?

    4 still applies!  I am still really excited about magi/monk even if I can't launch an punch combo with stonefist while diamondskinned as a horval with my trusty golem fighting beside me before a backbreaker.
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Topic Resurrection!

    I'm still wondering how many classes we will have access to, and at what cost. 

    I'm thinking Monk/Sentinel for Borran. That'd justify level 3 knuckles plenty. I'd provably throw in Serpent just because I miss it, assuming we get 3+ classes.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Depending on how often and how quickly you can switch, what you will see people doing a lot is switching classes after an initial skirmish or two (to something they feel is more appropriate to the situation). 

    Utianima
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bashing mode/fighting mode/monk.
    image
    MishgulAedinUtianima
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    And everyone should have serpent just for phase checking.

  • AerosiAerosi Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Wait, we might be getting multiclasses?!?!?!?
    ''Dude, I want a horse so bad.....''
    ''Mhaldorians don't say 'dude'.''
    ''Oh.... I still want that horse.''
  • AndregorAndregor Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aerosi said:
    Wait, we might be getting multiclasses?!?!?!?
    I am pretty sure it isn't a might, but a definite. Question is, when?
    image
  • AerosiAerosi Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited April 2015
    Omigod, I'm gonna be a...... Jester Serpent!!! :|

    So, you guys were discussing earlier about how the multiclass would work.....

    Hrm. Do you think you would like, be able to specify which skills you could use at a time? Like, pick 3/6? I doubt that the multiclass system coming for Achaea would be anything like Aetolia, as they seem way different (but, I've only had limited experience playing Aetolia). That's just my opinion, though. And 'cause switching class like that would really be..... Less cool than the specific skill sets.


    ''Dude, I want a horse so bad.....''
    ''Mhaldorians don't say 'dude'.''
    ''Oh.... I still want that horse.''
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    When it happens, it is almost certainly going to be binary Jester skills or Serpent skills, with a significant channel time of some kind to switch between them
    Utianima
  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If it is like Aetolia, it'll have a 12 hour wait between switches. If it's Imperian, it'll have a combat delay before you can swap, then you have to relearn everything up to where you were in whatever rank.

    Either way it goes, I'll be taking full advantage of it.

    MizikShirszae
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Honestly, I'd be happy if it was just "once a day you can switch out your third class skill for a skill from your secondary class" or something simple like that (also means newbies can't do it - give them time to learn their first class before they embrace and can begin thinking about a secondary class). But that might create balance issues, depending on what classes people picked as a secondary.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,307 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think the most likely scenario is that multiclass will essentially be the same as obtaining dragon, just instead of bashing to unlock the second class, you'll be paying the lesson investment plus a likely credit capital cost. It will likely have some sort of windup and cooldown, and kill any lingering effects of your previous class ( vibes, rites, harmonics, ents, etc. )

    Mixing and matching skills from various classes is likely unfeasible in terms of administrative development/balancing investment, and would increase the complexity of combat exponentially.
    image
    Utianima
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2015
    There's absolutely no way you could ever mix and match skills from multiple classes like that, unless the admin basically scrap every class and skill and start over from scratch.
    CooperIsaiah
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:
    There's absolutely no way you could ever mix and match skills from multiple classes like that, unless the admin basically scrap every class and skill and start over from scratch.
    Dunno, remember when we were demigods?

    Or the player test realm thing? Yeah the Player test realm thing.

    Caladbolg's a Paladin wtf he just blackwinded

    wtf he's in mhaldor now

    wtf he just radienced me.

    This would make the game near unplayable. if it -didn't- have some kind of cooldown inbetween switching class imo.

  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2015
    I think the key word here is 'balance'. During those events I am sure balance isn't a thing. I give it a 90% chance it'll be like Aetolia. I am a Bard, I have Bard and Jester. I want to be Jester. I engaged in combat recently, so I have to wait 10 minutes until I am out of 'combat' so to speak, then I can switch to Jester which will put an X hour cooldown on my ability to class swap. I trade out every bard skill for the jester skills, and the Jester skills are at whatever amount of lessons I dumped in them. 900cr for bard, 900cr for jester, 1800cr total.

    CooperShirszaeTaelMizik
  • ChordChord Member Posts: 142 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I have been biding my time for multiclass, so I can be the Priest/Blademaster/Monk of my dreammmmms. 
    Arahaelon
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tecton was rather vague when I asked in the most recent AYP thread, but the costs involved for multiclass are likely going to work similarly to tradeskills. You might get your first and second classes for the standard lesson cost (1736 per Trans skill), but you'll be paying an increasing amount for every subsequent one. It definitely won't be cheap to be fully Transed in a lot of classes.
    Aedin
  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2015
    Antonius said:
    Tecton was rather vague when I asked in the most recent AYP thread, but the costs involved for multiclass are likely going to work similarly to tradeskills. You might get your first and second classes for the standard lesson cost (1736 per Trans skill), but you'll be paying an increasing amount for every subsequent one. It definitely won't be cheap to be fully Transed in a lot of classes.
    that's the same as Aetolia, too, though the amounts were flat increases. 100 for the 3rd class, 200 for 4th and 5th, 300 for every class after that. On top of lesson investment.

  • VenserVenser Member Posts: 51 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    How would traits/specialisation work in multiclass? Would we be able to choose differently when switching to your chosen classes?

  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2015
    Venser said:
    How would traits/specialisation work in multiclass? Would we be able to choose differently when switching to your chosen classes?

    Again, if it is like Aetolia, you would be the same trait/spec no matter what class you do. You need the artifacts to switch those freely.

  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    Nizana said:
    Venser said:
    How would traits/specialisation work in multiclass? Would we be able to choose differently when switching to your chosen classes?

    Again, if it is like Aetolia, you would be the same trait/spec no matter what class you do. You need the artifacts to switch those freely.
    Which I actually sorta like. It means that people will be incentivised to mostly pick class combinations that are at least slightly related - it's easier to do apostate/magi than it is to do paladin/magi, which might make it at least slightly less a problem for immersion.

    This is veering slightly off-topic from multiclass combat (though since multiclass combat almost certainly isn't going to be much of a thing, I guess that's not too bad), but my one hope for multiclass remains to be that they actually come up with an in-world explanation for it. That's what bugged me about Aetolia - it was so blatantly meta. The whole concept of "forgetting" a class is already pretty weird (and I wish it also had an in-world explanation), but swapping in and out skillsets is even weirder and was honestly pretty immersion-breaking. I'd rather it be something more like dragons, where there's a mechanical thing going on, but justified by lore. I was hoping that the whole talisman thing was going to be part of that explanation, since they were introduced I think right around the time the multiclass discussion started - something like talismans that act as sort of "phylacteries" for knowledge of class skills, a magical object that literally swaps memories of class abilities in and out. "A wizard did it" might not be the very pinnacle of exposition, but I think it's an awful lot better than offering no explanation and expecting people to just pretend like the people around them aren't mysteriously and instantaneously gaining and losing access to vastly different knowledge and experience all the time.
    TherisShimi
  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2015
    ^^ That is more like Midkemia, where you have to speak with a wizard to store the memories of your class in an orb (or w/e) of memories before you can take on the new stuff.

    Either way, it is hard to justify IC in a way like Dragon unless there is some shapeshifty change. At the start, unless they already have a plan for how it'll be executed, it'll likely just be a class swap thing. If they really want to, they can use the Imperian way of doing things, have no cooldown to class swap, you just have to relearn from inept to trans in.. what.. 5 learning sessions? That's half the number of ranks, roughly.

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Nizana said:
    I think the key word here is 'balance'. During those events I am sure balance isn't a thing. I give it a 90% chance it'll be like Aetolia. I am a Bard, I have Bard and Jester. I want to be Jester. I engaged in combat recently, so I have to wait 10 minutes until I am out of 'combat' so to speak, then I can switch to Jester which will put an X hour cooldown on my ability to class swap. I trade out every bard skill for the jester skills, and the Jester skills are at whatever amount of lessons I dumped in them. 900cr for bard, 900cr for jester, 1800cr total.
    1800 Credits doesn't even put a damper in how many credits i've wasted changing class over the years.

    Actually.. 15 x 436  6540 credits in class changes total or so? And that's not even counting how many artifacts i've traded in when I switched classes.

    Austere
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I hope it is retroactive, allowing us to switch to all of the classes we've been in the past. 

    Small chance of that happening, but one can hope
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