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Artefact questions and discussion

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  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2012
    Arlanda said:
    Maht said:
    Venge said:
    I'm hoping to get at least SOMETHING.... maybe a lvl 3 band for my blade.
    I'm not sure if that's a joke or not, but it's incredibly over-zealous.

    Venge, Shogakusha of the Hold (male Human).
    He is 18 years old, having been born on the 11th of Chronos, 594 years after the fall of the
    Seleucarian Empire.
    He is unranked in Achaea.
    He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.

    I suggest reading the first page of this thread extensively.
    Well its all about the money money money. Who says 18 years old can't get level 3 bands
    I've gotta say, whilst I don't think that there's any one artefact that will make you win the game, a lvl3 banded BM is a huge PITA to fight against even with relatively little skill.  I mean, Venge's case is a bit extreme, sure, because I'd probably only have to hit him once to make the band somewhat irrelevant, but when you can pommelstrike-knees and then impale before they have a snowflake's chance of standing again you're in a fairly enviable position for peeveepee.

    TL;DR - Get some hair on your chest, get to the point where you can take two hits against a serious opponent, then, sure buy your level 3 band.

    ETA: the way my browser deals with nested quotes is seriously beginning to piss me off.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Been considering something as a Christmas present to myself. Looking for something decent for combat, not hunting. Raids and 1v1. Options:

    Staff of Illusions: Might give me some new options for pulling off Vivisects etc

    Buckawn's Amulet: Handy in raids

    Upgrade sip ring to Level 3: Glug glug glug

    Upgrade bow to level 2/3: So that I can start stealing some kills

    Diadem: Faster EQ can help a lot for things like shielding, vigour etc

    I have a collared flying mount, wings and artie pipes

    What should I do, Oh Gurus of Bling?

  • RispokRispok Member Posts: 708 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Arador said:
    Been considering something as a Christmas present to myself. Looking for something decent for combat, not hunting. Raids and 1v1. Options:

    Staff of Illusions: Might give me some new options for pulling off Vivisects etc

    Buckawn's Amulet: Handy in raids

    Upgrade sip ring to Level 3: Glug glug glug

    Upgrade bow to level 2/3: So that I can start stealing some kills

    Diadem: Faster EQ can help a lot for things like shielding, vigour etc

    I have a collared flying mount, wings and artie pipes

    What should I do, Oh Gurus of Bling?
    Assuming you're an Infernal, do you have gauntlets yet? The boost can be handy, so it's something worth considering.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Gauntlets are insanely expensive for what they give. I have a free reincarnation and trait respec that I got in globes so would rather use that to change to a higher strength build after I am done with my Dragon/Whatever bashing. With the sip ring I do not mind dropping a bit of CON.

  • ArlandaArlanda Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sylvance said:
    Arlanda said:
    Maht said:
    Venge said:
    I'm hoping to get at least SOMETHING.... maybe a lvl 3 band for my blade.
    I'm not sure if that's a joke or not, but it's incredibly over-zealous.

    Venge, Shogakusha of the Hold (male Human).
    He is 18 years old, having been born on the 11th of Chronos, 594 years after the fall of the
    Seleucarian Empire.
    He is unranked in Achaea.
    He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.

    I suggest reading the first page of this thread extensively.
    Well its all about the money money money. Who says 18 years old can't get level 3 bands
    I've gotta say, whilst I don't think that there's any one artefact that will make you win the game, a lvl3 banded BM is a huge PITA to fight against even with relatively little skill.  I mean, Venge's case is a bit extreme, sure, because I'd probably only have to hit him once to make the band somewhat irrelevant, but when you can pommelstrike-knees and then impale before they have a snowflake's chance of standing again you're in a fairly enviable position for peeveepee.

    TL;DR - Get some hair on your chest, get to the point where you can take two hits against a serious opponent, then, sure buy your level 3 band.

    ETA: the way my browser deals with nested quotes is seriously beginning to piss me off.
    Well of course arties should come after transcending your TwoArts and other whatnot skills. After which the band should help a lot. I remember when I was 18 after transcending elementalism the level 3 gauntlets worked wonders
    Mizik
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,089 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Arador I'd go Collar.
    image
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Mizik That would only really boost Deathaura and the odd Taint, wouldn't it?

  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,720 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Totally boosts Vivisect too, brah.

  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    But my flowerpot already does that!

    Mishgul
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,314 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    oh god more people are figuring out my dirty secrets

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    AradorJonathin
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2012
    staff of illusions for the love of the non-existent god @Arador a staff of illusions. I'm going to learn from Mizik and will happily PM you why if you want
    One day, ACC, one day...
    Maht
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,314 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    staff of illusions is unnecessary, can just ask people to die instead, works 99% of the time.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Xith
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,770 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    @Arador: Buckawn's amulet or boots is always a solid choice, for both group and 1v1 combat. Removing a universal, and easily obtainable, option for hindering from your opponent tends to pay off. Plus being webbed in a group fight usually ends badly.
  • TanrisTanris Member Posts: 683 @ - Epic Achaean

    Don't get buckawns boots. If you need to remove boots to avoid beckon in a flooded room, jokes going to be on you. Amulet is where it is at.

    I'd recommend sip ring if you're going for defence, bow if going for group stuff, or staff for one v one.

    Sylvance
  • FrizticFriztic Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ok, I'll bite. Why is a staff of illusions useful for a knight who can already give two afflictions at roughly the same balance.

    Also, since a sash and collar only raise Thurisaz damage, is it particularly useful to have them as a Runewarden?
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2012
    this is the msg I sent to Arador: 

    The reason you want a staff of illusions is because:
     A) it's great for roleplay. You get a huge character limit on the staff of illusions and it can be great for things like rituals, sermons, and even just impromptu.
     B) when you're trying to vivisect another Knight, using shatter provided they don't apply restoration off eq can be quite difficult because of Curare Arc. With a staff of illusion, you can unwield left/right, wield flail;conjure illusion fake shatter - when they arc, you real shatter. If you're fighting someone quite smart, one thing they might do is apply restoration when you begin a shatter (if they don't have arc or even if they do... they might arc/apply restoration to a beaten limb) this is because shatter balance is roughly restoration balance, and they can cure a limb while you're off balance and can't take advantage of it. However, if you fake a shatter with an illusion, then you'll be on balance when they apply restoration and can salve beat their limbs with epseth or epteth while they're off eq from restore and off salve balance! Vivisect, whay! You can also try and figure out some restoration illusions if you want a nice head start on a vivisect stratetegy requiring less limbs, or in groups if you're fighting with another infernal (gank, for example): You illusion, epteth/epteth, they epseth/epseth, you vivisect. 

     C) all reasons of B - the creativity encouraged with a staff of illusions and the way it can open your mind up to working with illusions can really help your combat.

    Less helpful to you as a runewarden who can already two limb disembowel, but I suppose it could help with parry bypass -- not that you need that as a runie -- (but that's only if you can find a restoration illusion that works). Can fake rebounding, shielding, etcetera.

    One day, ACC, one day...
    Friztic
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,770 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Friztic: More damage is basically always better, but you have to weigh the cost of buying a collar and/or sash against the benefit they'd provide, and then look at what else you could buy with those credits and how much benefit you'd get from that instead. Unless you're at a point where you've bought nearly everything, I'm not sure either would be worth the credits since there would always be something better to spend them on.

    Essentially, they're more useful than not having them, but not more useful than most other artefacts.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,089 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Arador Staff of Illusions won't help you in the fights that matter. You either can Vivisect or you can't. People who can effectively or consistently avoid Vivisect usually leave a strong gap for disembowel. You don't have Thurisaz or Hugalaz, you have Taint and Deathaura.

    I suggested Collar because it provides you will the highest amount of killing power.

    You can already Vivisect. Think about it.
    image
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Arador said:
    Buckawn's Amulet: Handy in raids

    Upgrade sip ring to Level 3: Glug glug glug
    Upgrade bow to level 2/3: So that I can start stealing some kills

    Diadem: Faster EQ can help a lot for things like shielding, vigour etc

    Infernal doesn't strike me as benefitting from EQ that much, but I'd say that one, just cause I don't want anyone to have Buckawn's. It's annoying. As for level 3 arties, if you already have a version of them I'd just go for new things. Your sips are already above standard and so is your shooting speed, so good enough.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,089 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    @Friztic If you're looking to boost your offense, don't need Soulpiercers, and are already top of diminishing returns unartied (19 with Fury, 20 if Icon), then Collar is the best (only) option.

    Thurisaz gets ridiculous with Collar. Flood will no longer be a problem after Classleads (so after 2015).

    Runewarden is already such a defensive powerhouse, the only thing that can dent it is like... Akia.

    Will admit: best artefact any knight can buy, bar none, is a mountable pet. That's what I would focus on, were I you. Runie can kill anything without Shrugging.
    image
    Friztic
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2012
    Ok. 

    Let's take these first couple of scenarios withouta staff of illusions. 
    We'll begin with a 3 limb setup, assuming a person is applying resto before mending against infernal.
    ------ also remember you need to occupy a setup dsl with a torso break if you're going to factor in dsb chance, because they'll catch it otherwise --------
    THEY HIT - REBOUNDING DOWN FOR 9S (4 dsl's)
    Torso epseth/epseth
    Left arm epteth/epseth
    Left leg delph/deph - restore 
    salve balance back - wait (sorry, wait on applying i mean)
    Right leg epteth/epteth
    REBOUNDING
    Mending arm, apply restoration to legs

    You get one disembowel off - standard dsb attempt with single torso. Unlikely to kill unless you're fighting low health peeps. 

    Switch it up, going for vivisect. They're not applying restoration off eq. 

    Break left arm epseth/epteth
    Break left leg epteth/epseth - restore
    salve balance back
    shatter left arm
    apply restoration to legs
    left leg cured - left arm broken again (You have one dsl before rebounding, they have one broken arm and they get eq back in 2s)
    REBOUNDING

    i can't be bothered to continue when i'm sure you know the rest. The point I'm making is that when you're fighting the smarter, tankier folk. People who don't get impaled and continue to not apply restoration and let themselves get dsb'd twice. People that don't apply restoration off eq. People that apply restoration when you shatter. 

    It's about mind games and psyching your opponent out. I can think of a few things that staff of illusions seriously opens up for an infernal. Considering the cost of it... which is the main reason I suggest it. You can always throw 500 credits on the staff of illusions and then keep the rest of your credits until you can afford to increase your damage output. 

    (Also? it's really fun).
    One day, ACC, one day...
    Arador
  • FrizticFriztic Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Antonius: Don't take this the wrong way, but that was a useless comment that didn't answer my question at all. Of course they are more useful than if I didn't have them. Almost certainly the credit cost is something to consider when comparing them to other artifacts. What I'd like to know is if the increase in damage makes a huge difference when using runes to help disembowel, or if the increased damage is large or small in the context of a ranged volley.

    Please try again?
    Arador
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I do not think there is a bad choice between all of those and the great advice I have gotten here shows that. Each will help in a good way and I really appreciate all the advice. 

    I ended up going for the staff. Because:
    1. It is a lot cheaper than most of the other options so I can take the bow upgrade as well (Seem to be doing a lot of LoS in these raids)
    2. I would like to play around with some new ideas. I know all the standard Vivisect methods and I know that many people can avoid all of them. @Katalyst lent his a while ago and I could see the shadows of ideas forming, just did not have enough time to flesh out the details.
    3. My current spec is geared for bashing, not damage dealing and will only change upon level 99. So trying to boost damage at this point would be half-assing it. That is not to say that after I respec I would not look at a collar.
    4. It looks like a hell lot of fun.

    Garao
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'd go for the buckawns or bow. Sip ring is nice but if you already have a level 2 one then it shouldn't be as big of a priority. Bow damage is also pretty nice in 1v1, though obviously raid sniping is where it's at. Wouldn't go for the staff of illusions myself but that mostly depends on your play style. Illusions get nerfed with every new generation of systems and I don't like trick tactics that vary a lot depending on who I'm fighting. There's enough of that inherent to combat, without adding more.

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

    MizikCorbeaux
  • VengeVenge Member Posts: 9
    edited December 2012
    Sorry mean to say earlier im going to trans my skills first before I get any artefact.

    Jespar
  • ArlandaArlanda Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Artefacts makes me lazy. Vials decay, darn, buy gemstone vials. Waterwalking boots decay, darn, buy pixie boots. Have to pay for letters all the time, darn, buy stationery kit. 
    Prythe
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Arlanda said:
    Artefacts makes me lazy. Vials decay, darn, buy gemstone vials. Waterwalking boots decay, darn, buy pixie boots. Have to pay for letters all the time, darn, buy stationery kit. 
    Lazy is good for IRE.  We should all be more lazy.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JesparJespar Member Posts: 345 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    how many credits did they give you to say that @sylvance? HOW MANY I NEED TO KNOW
    SylvanceXaetherian
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,815 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My 18 year old BM has a level 3 band :/
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    Lyr
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Are the changes to weapons going to make it less (or perhaps more) worthwhile it to buy lvl 3 rapiers / level 3 rapiers / soulpiercers?  Does anyone actually know?  It sounds like the changes are definitely going to happen, and perhaps shortly after these large scale events.  When I say "worthwhile", I do take into account that the weapons never decay and are resetting, but that's really only worthwhile if they are comparable to the best forged rapiers available in terms of stats - where currently they seem to have lagged greatly in terms of speed.  You could say that they make up for it with to-hit and high damage, but the guys on here that kill people consistently recommend them as one of the last things to buy unless you *really* want the convenience - and even then, will sometimes grudgingly admit that they just don't compare to the crazy forged weapons being produced.  Most tellingly though, these guys speak with their own $$$.  They buy every artefact besides the weapons, and will spend 50-400+ credits for good forged... It makes you wonder if admin counted on just how many hours some forgers would be willing to tink tink tink away when they designed forging... As well, since the changes seem more comprehensive than just a stat rework, to counteract some problems people are having post-traits, there may be even more to consider?  So, with all of these things in mind, does anyone have an idea of whether the soulpiercers are worth buying?  They are on sale after all :)  I know I'm a total non-com (and I can't even log on right now), but please humor me!

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