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Artefact questions and discussion

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  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    How useful is the shaman artifact that gives more swift curses?

  • DochithaDochitha
    edited August 2015
    Caladbolg said:
    How useful is the shaman artifact that gives more swift curses?
    As a shaman you probably have locks setup within 9 curses, cos no one is ever going to be still longer than that to get locked by you. Anything longer also means you are going to hit passive curing tick or tree is back and stuffs. 

    I have the L3 pendant and seriously I can live fine without it. 

    If your strategy involves a lot of cursing going to get a lock, instead of a predetermined setup, then you will find that 1s swiftcurse prep getting in your way. In this case, not even the artefact can help. 

    I think the artefact should let shaman have swiftcurse keep up, instead of just extending them to 16. 

    Oh this is from combat pov, not hunting. 



  • AmranuAmranu
    edited August 2015
    Swiftcurse keep up? What do you mean.

    Also, pendant is plenty worth it. A lot of classes will stick around long enough for you to get use out of it.
  • DochithaDochitha
    @Amranu As in perma swiftcurse when you have the arty, instead of limiting to a number. This will make Shaman stronger, compared to being just a convenient utility. Most other classes offensive arties, like Thoths, Swords etc all make them deadlier, quicker, faster, more damaging.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    Dochitha said:
    @Amranu As in perma swiftcurse when you have the arty, instead of limiting to a number. This will make Shaman stronger, compared to being just a convenient utility. Most other classes offensive arties, like Thoths, Swords etc all make them deadlier, quicker, faster, more damaging.
    Permanent 1s curses with no cooldown on their uses is exactly why it is built the way it is.

    No class could outhinder you ever if that wasn't the case.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    edited August 2015
    1 second doesn't seem like a big deal when your curses are coming in at .8ish seconds a curse to me anyways. that's leading to 1.6 per two iirc Serpent is at around 1.7 

    With no artie that's 9 afflictions in 8.2 seconds. where Serpent should land at about.. 10 in 8.5 with dstab at 1.7 although serpents do have snap.

    with a level three pendant however that's. 15 afflictions in 13 seconds. where as serpents would come in 16 afflictions in 27.2 seconds. which is a huge difference. although a level 2 looks more worth it from a limited credit pool part.

    Also my curses math is including the time to reput swiftcurse up at the end of it. can knock .2 seconds off both those totals and add another affliction and disreguard reapplying swiftcurse.

    ---
    Also personally I think swiftcurse is kinda weird the way it's setup now. while more powerful than the timed version seems to me like it went from a more skill type to a easy mode setup.

    Wouldn't mind seeing curses at a set speed and swiftcurse allowing you to double curse a couple of times or something.

  • DochithaDochitha
    edited August 2015
    Swiftcurse with nimble is 0.99s. 

    It's about the same as S&B, slower than Serpent, a bit quicker than Apostate less passive afflictions...so, not the quickest, not the slowest, without access to slickness without prep. It's not scary.

    Relapse cooldown 10s. Coagulation every 20s. Vodun soulscourge imbibe at 20 fashions and destroys the doll. Play your cards right you will never die to a Shaman easily (like don't go off-salve when they want you to, prio haemophilia for a bit when you know coagulation is gonna hit, run when mana is low, diagnose like a bitch).
  • AmranuAmranu
    Relapse cooldown is 25 seconds, Coagulate is 10 iirc @Dochitha.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    Dochitha said:
    Swiftcurse with nimble is 0.99s. 

    It's about the same as S&B, slower than Serpent, a bit quicker than Apostate less passive afflictions...so, not the quickest, not the slowest, without access to slickness without prep. It's not scary.

    Relapse cooldown 10s. Coagulation every 20s. Vodun soulscourge imbibe at 20 fashions and destroys the doll. Play your cards right you will never die to a Shaman easily (like don't go off-salve when they want you to, prio haemophilia for a bit when you know coagulation is gonna hit, run when mana is low, diagnose like a bitch).
    Mines showing up at about .7-.8ish

  • AmranuAmranu
    It averages out to 1 second from everything I've seen.
  • TrevizeTrevize
    Amranu said:
    It averages out to 1 second from everything I've seen.
    I don't know if it's exactly 1s, been a while since I was a shaman, but this sounds right - I remember most people saying it was faster than it was?
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  • DochithaDochitha
    It feels faster, but it actually isn't. If relapse, coagulation and soulscourge were felt, oh yes it is really fast.
  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Try only sending through the curse if you're using serverside queue, not stand/giggle/wield shield/vault/dismount/whatever else you have in the alias/curse.  The addition of multiple commands before an attack will cause the balance times to look wonky if you're tracking them clientside
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Is Swiftcurse's balance not mentioned in the AB? Most abilities are now. If it's 1 second, which sounds logical, and Nimble is 10%, then it should be .9 seconds.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • AntoniusAntonius

    The AB file for Swiftcurse just lists the equilibrium cost for putting up the defense. However, knowing that Swiftcurse halves Curse balance, that Nimble is 10%, and that the balance on Curse is 2.2 seconds (taken from the AB file for one of the regular Curse affliction abilities), you get the 0.99 seconds number Dochitha posted before.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • SenaSena
    In the past (not sure about now), swiftcurse didn't exactly cut curse balance in half. The AB file said "cut your curse time by more than 50%", and it seemed to be about 55%. It was especially visible once swiftcurse was made to apply to itself; the base eq cost was 4 seconds, and with swiftcurse already up (and no other eq bonuses) it was 1.8, not 2.

  • SenaSena
    Too late to edit, but I looked back through old logs and notes. Last time I was a shaman (which was before traits, so quite a few years ago), base curse balance was 2.2 seconds, with swiftcurse it was 1 second.
  • DochithaDochitha
    Doing 5 Swiftcurses in a row:

    You weave your fingers together, calling upon the swiftcurse to aid you.
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You weave your fingers together, calling upon the swiftcurse to aid you.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You weave your fingers together, calling upon the swiftcurse to aid you.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You weave your fingers together, calling upon the swiftcurse to aid you.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You take a drink from a sapphire crystal vial.
    Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [System]: Running queued equilibrium command: SWIFTCURSE
    You weave your fingers together, calling upon the swiftcurse to aid you.
    You have recovered equilibrium. (5.053s)
    5 bleeds:

    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 15 curses.
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 14 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 13 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 12 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 11 curses.
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (4.877s)

    Another 5 bleeds:

    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 10 curses.
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a WORLD-SHATTERING CRITICAL hit!!!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 9 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 8 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 7 curses.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    [System]: Running queued balance command: SWIFTCURSE DUMMY BLEED
    You point an imperious finger at a practice dummy.
    Blood begins to flow from a practice dummy's pores.
    The swiftcurse is empowered with another 6 curses.
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (4.923s)
    The AB Files

    Swiftcurse (Curses)                           Known: Yes
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Syntax:            SWIFTCURSE
                       SWIFTCURSE <target> <curse>
    Works on/against:  Self
    Cooldown:          2.50 seconds of equilibrium
    Resource:          300 mana
    Details:
    This potent defence will drastically speed up your next ten curses after
    initiation. Breach is excluded.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Asthma (Curses)                               Known: Yes

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Syntax:            CURSE <target> ASTHMA

    Works on/against:  Adventurers
    Cooldown:          2.20 seconds of balance
    Resource:          100 mana
    Details:

    Make it difficult for your victim to breathe.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    That's with Nimble, isn't it? Nimble and Swiftcurse.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • DochithaDochitha
    Tharvis said:
    That's with Nimble, isn't it? Nimble and Swiftcurse.
    Yes, Nimble + Swiftcurse.


  • LothienLothien Montréal, Québec
    Rebitten by the bug. Sylvan/Dragon, would like to do PVE/exploring mostly, but PVP fairly capable of holding his own, if not absolute top-tier. Budget around 1500.

         Item  Name                                 Originally                    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        22700  an Aldar Diadem                      N/A
        39941  a driftwood stationery kit           N/A
        44261  a blood pendant                      N/A
        47619  a Circlet of the Will                N/A
        63266  a pair of Mayan Bracelets            N/A
        84348  a polished marble pipe               N/A
       117030  a wyrmskin pack bearing the a a wyrmskin pack
       125320  goggles of whitesight                N/A
       148859  a ruby hydra                         a multi-headed water hydra
       154211  an Aeonic hourglass                  N/A
       164935  Gloves of Harvesting                 N/A
       186652  a Lasallian lyre                     N/A
       217645  an Yggdrasian splinter               N/A
       221884  a gem of cloaking                    N/A
       271922  an ornately carved ivory pipe        N/A
       292681  a long, elegant ebony pipe           N/A
       306111  a glittering ring of vitality        N/A
       339608  a Thalassan kitten                   N/A
       359851  a ranger's bow                       N/A
       408498  a Ceylonese ring                     N/A
       417762  a pair of eagle's wings              N/A
       429959  a miniature flagon on a chain        N/A
       444888  a Brooch of the Tempest              N/A

    Also: Lupine plinth

    Thoughts:
    - trading in for Atavian wings.
    - upgrade to logosian ring
    - vibrating stick
    - sash (seems limitedish)
    - buckawn's (but seems limited)
    - save up for a veil

    Help me, fellow Achaeans!
  • SethSeth North Carolina
    Lothien said:
    Rebitten by the bug. Sylvan/Dragon, would like to do PVE/exploring mostly, but PVP fairly capable of holding his own, if not absolute top-tier. Budget around 1500.

         Item  Name                                 Originally                    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        22700  an Aldar Diadem                      N/A
        39941  a driftwood stationery kit           N/A
        44261  a blood pendant                      N/A
        47619  a Circlet of the Will                N/A
        63266  a pair of Mayan Bracelets            N/A
        84348  a polished marble pipe               N/A
       117030  a wyrmskin pack bearing the a a wyrmskin pack
       125320  goggles of whitesight                N/A
       148859  a ruby hydra                         a multi-headed water hydra
       154211  an Aeonic hourglass                  N/A
       164935  Gloves of Harvesting                 N/A
       186652  a Lasallian lyre                     N/A
       217645  an Yggdrasian splinter               N/A
       221884  a gem of cloaking                    N/A
       271922  an ornately carved ivory pipe        N/A
       292681  a long, elegant ebony pipe           N/A
       306111  a glittering ring of vitality        N/A
       339608  a Thalassan kitten                   N/A
       359851  a ranger's bow                       N/A
       408498  a Ceylonese ring                     N/A
       417762  a pair of eagle's wings              N/A
       429959  a miniature flagon on a chain        N/A
       444888  a Brooch of the Tempest              N/A

    Also: Lupine plinth

    Thoughts:
    - trading in for Atavian wings.
    - upgrade to logosian ring
    - vibrating stick
    - sash (seems limitedish)
    - buckawn's (but seems limited)
    - save up for a veil

    Help me, fellow Achaeans!
    Do you hunt in dragon more? If so, an SoA would be a great addition. A collar or sash would increase both thornrend damage, weatherweaving abilities and incantation damage. Can't go wrong with an upgraded sip ring either. It'll be close to your old sip with concoction bonus if you remember it.
  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    An SoA should be a dragons first purchase if they don't already have one, imo. The artefact really is about as strong as you can get for that price range. 
  • LothienLothien Montréal, Québec
    Thanks for the ideas! It seems like hunting in dragon is a much better idea than in sylvan (seeing as how I've died 3-4 times already trying in the old camps I used to go to). I miss the tanky sip.

    I've kind of narrowed it down to:

    4/500: sash/collar (not sure which is more useful first)/CON belt
    800: vibrating stick - for getting from camp to camp, getting to Meropis faster, etc. Any thoughts?

    or

    800: SoA - only useful for dragon :(
    4/500: sash/collar/CON belt

    or

    1000: upgrade sip ring - useful for both
    4/500: sash/collar/CON belt

    ..

    If I'm being honest, the vibrating stick is really appealing. I'm not sure it's worth to get, but the thought of bouncing around camps really quickly is nice, especially for an explorer/bashing type.

    Yay indecision.
  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    I have always enjoyed my artefacts that actually do something unique over ones that just increase a stat. I love my collar, but given the option between that and wings,  I would go wings all day. I classify warp stick similarly; it's just not as raid oriented.

    An SoA really does increase your tankiness absurdly for the price, but if you only hunt in dragon, is tanking even an issue?  For combat,  I definitely see the pros, but hunting only?  If the only time that you dragon is for hunting: sip/con. 
     
    Sash and collar,  at least for dragon hunting, feel pretty meh.  I still use gut as my primary attack until endurance is low,  because it is quicker (easier to run) and more/equal dps (correct me if I am wrong here). For sylvan obviously chose collar first. 
  • TahquilTahquil
    I find wielding my SOA in Sylvan as I hunt to be pretty alright. I don't know how to get the numbers crunched to see if the armour of a spun staff is better than the occasional complete block of an attack.
  • SarathaiSarathai
    Unartied gut is apparently better than artied incantation, so yes.

    And yes to the SoA question about dragon tanking. Even in dform the SoA can and will save you.

     @Austere
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
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    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • SenaSena
    Fully artied gut and fully artied incantation are nearly the same DPS, though gut is faster so it's still a little better. "Fully artied" for gut though just means L3 gauntlets, while incantation needs L3 sash, L3 collar, and diadem.
  • ArditiArditi
    Tahquil said:
    I find wielding my SOA in Sylvan as I hunt to be pretty alright. I don't know how to get the numbers crunched to see if the armour of a spun staff is better than the occasional complete block of an attack.
    While completely unscientific, go into your preferred hunting area with X sips of health. Clear it twice, once with the SoA, once with spun staff. Count how many sips difference between the two.

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Arditi said:
    Tahquil said:
    I find wielding my SOA in Sylvan as I hunt to be pretty alright. I don't know how to get the numbers crunched to see if the armour of a spun staff is better than the occasional complete block of an attack.
    While completely unscientific, go into your preferred hunting area with X sips of health. Clear it twice, once with the SoA, once with spun staff. Count how many sips difference between the two.
    I'd not recommend this method, for multiple reasons, the biggest one being crits can easily skew the numbers.
    Huh. Neat.
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