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  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    No sorry, grabbing the foot out of the stirrups seems pretty unlikely unless the rider has already essentially "lost a stirrup" himself (but it's Achaea and go ahead and make it that way if people like it) - exactly because it's a point the rider is using to center his weight and it should be pretty solid, especially the heavy duty stirrups and rigging we'd probably be talking about, and especially if he's got any momentum to speak of.  Sorry that wasn't clear.  To be honest, I was trying to avoid being overly confrontational by saying something like "nope, this is just wrong" :/  

    Anyway, my main point was really don't even bother trying to be super realistic/true to form, partly because it's a fantasy game and being realistic would itself be silly (and just plain unworkable) in some ways.  If something looked especially awful it would probably bug me, but mostly I tell myself that Achaea has its own physics (and hey, it does, so it's okay).  
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,618 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:
    No sorry, grabbing the foot out of the stirrups seems pretty unlikely unless the rider has already essentially "lost a stirrup" himself (but it's Achaea and go ahead and make it that way if people like it) - exactly because it's a point the rider is using to center his weight and it should be pretty solid, especially the heavy duty stirrups and rigging we'd probably be talking about, and especially if he's got any momentum to speak of.  Sorry that wasn't clear.  To be honest, I was trying to avoid being overly confrontational by saying something like "nope, this is just wrong" :/ 
    From experience, it's actually pretty easy to physically disengage a foot from a stirrup and thereby leverage someone out of their seat, rather forcefully. I'm not sure why you mentioned momentum, as there aren't any Blademasters out there flinging people out of their saddles as they gallop by, so that seems largely irrelevant (and just plain silly).

    Jules said:
    Anyway, my main point was really don't even bother trying to be super realistic/true to form, partly because it's a fantasy game and being realistic would itself be silly (and just plain unworkable) in some ways.  If something looked especially awful it would probably bug me, but mostly I tell myself that Achaea has its own physics (and hey, it does, so it's okay).  
    I disagree with this for the following reason: Just because it's a game set in a fantasy environment doesn't mean some physics shouldn't, and are not expected to, conform to standard application. Yes, flying is something that can be done, but based on certain conditions that negate the already existent and accepted concept of gravity. So your main point seems to have been rather besides the point.


  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    For a "regular" size horse that weighs around 1000 lbs (so puny by Achaean standards) not even trotting that fast (around 10 mph), his momentum very conservatively speaking is around 2033 kg-m/s - and we won't even add the rider with all his heavy gear, which in this case could *easily* add another 200-300 lbs (too much for our poor 1000 lb horse anyway).  For a pretty big guy (around 200 lbs) who is running around trying to kill the rider at 10 mph, his momentum is around 407 kg-m/s.  Their kinetic energy is about 4542J and 910J at that point, respectively. 

    Now let's take a nice sloooooooow canter, the sort of thing someone could easily manage with a well-trained horse in any space that isn't so small you *really* need to ditch the horse anyway (if you're not in Achaea).  Adding just 3 mph, so that we're going 13 mph, the horse's momentum is now 2639 kg-m/s.  Our 200 lb guy's momentum at the new speed is only about 528 kg-m/s.  Now their kinetic energy is 7653J and 1531J.

    Even though the horse is going just 3 mph hour faster now (and is still going sloooooooooow overall), his momentum gain alone is more than the entire momentum of the big guy running at the slightly faster speed (and it's a lot harder for him to bump up to that speed too).

    Once you get even a little bit of momentum like that, the inertia helps make the rider rock solid in his stirrups so long as he's moving with the motion of his mount (it's also why very light stirrups tend to be hard to regain if you do slip a foot out - heavy ones drop back down and regain some semblance of stability so you can grab them back more easily). 

    If the space is cramped enough, though, the rider is pretty vulnerable on his horse now (as I'd indicated in my original post).  Now, the horse becomes a liability if he can't maneuver sufficiently.  Or entrenching... now things are really bad for us.  Depending on how invulnerable we are to them in fantasy land, arrows could also be quite bad.  Anyway, if people want to yank riders' feet out of stirrups in Achaea (or not), god bless 'em. 


  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,618 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This is the point I'm going to make, in that you do not seem to be reading what the topic is about, and instead are just throwing in thesis long posts that bear no relevance to the topic at hand.

    Momentum has absolutely ZERO relevance in to how Striking Feet dismounts an opponent. This is because the person on the mount is in the room, and it is thereby understood that the mount is in a standstill position.

    I literally skimmed over your response, because it's obvious that the entire 3+ paragraphs are to do with 'momentum of the mount as it applies to dismounting your opponent', which has no bearing in anything to do with how dismounting works in Achaea.

    Read please try to actually understand what the topic is about, by reading the previous and original responses, instead of throwing in random posts which contribute nothing of relevance.



  • Razzlo
    Razzlo Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Plus...legendary mounts are a pretty big trend in the game. So you are talking about people riding flying horses, mammoths, gryphons, and random crap that is fairly terrifying. I think I can suspend my disbelief enough that whacking a dude's foot out of a stirrup with a hand or a scabbard is enough to send him sprawling...
  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Razzlo, I totally agree.  That was my point - that we shouldn't be trying to be bringing much real world mechanics into Achaea.  And if you're fighting mounted from a standstill, you *really* need to ditch real world mechanics.  Big time. 
    Razzlo
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,618 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Jules said:
    Razzlo, I totally agree.  That was my point - that we shouldn't be trying to be bringing much real world mechanics into Achaea.  And if you're fighting mounted from a standstill, you *really* need to ditch real world mechanics.  Big time. 


    What would you say the horse's momentum is in this case?


    SharaShirszae
  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2015

    That edit isn't exactly an improvement...

    In any case, I responded to you because you were insistent that things needed to conform more closely to real world mechanics than seems possible.  You were the one wanting more "realistic", I am trying to explain why that's probably not reasonable/workable.  That and your original idea isn't very realistic in any situation where a mount should/would be useful (which is just fine in Achaea, but let's not kid ourselves about its level of realism). 

  • Trey
    Trey Member Posts: 4,890 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Jules said:

    That edit isn't exactly an improvement...

    In any case, I responded to you because you were insistent that things needed to conform more closely to real world mechanics than seems possible.  You were the one wanting more "realistic", I am trying to explain why that's probably not reasonable/workable.  That and your original idea isn't very realistic in any situation where a mount should/would be useful (which is just fine in Achaea, but let's not kid ourselves about its level of realism). 

    Jules I know you -really- like horses, but your posts are kind of like jumping into a conversation about coffee and writing an essay on how awesome spoons are for eating ice cream, but you really have to have the right shape to get the kind of scooping motion that you want, and some spoons are thin and long like almost 11-12" long. Also realistically speaking while a spoon like that is good for ice cream it would be terrible for soup, but they make spoons that are pretty bitchin' for soup too, deep wide bowls that hold a decent amount of broth with the noodles and veggies. Spoons have a bit of relevance to the topic at hand (coffee), but the conversation is, at its heart, strictly about coffee.

    tl;dr - Horses/mounts in your thread, striking with/without a scabbard in mine please!

  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,618 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I wasn't insisting on anything. I simply pointed out that currently the way Strike Feet works is based off actual physics, not imagined ones. I neither see where that is being 'insistent', nor what original idea of mine you're referring to in relation to forcing dismount via Strike Feet.


  • Jules
    Jules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    I *really* just wanted to make a single comment about the snippet of the thread I think I do have some insight on :( Yes, please, move this thread along to its many other items. 

  • Synbios
    Synbios Member Posts: 4,634 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ok, let's talk about how the generic drawslash message can be modified by your current stance. 

    From an old thread

    Unstanced: 
    With expert precision, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and unleash a vicious slash towards a young rat.
    Synbios unleashes a vicious slash towards a young rat before resheathing his blade, Eternal Mercy.

    Doya: 
    Firmly steadying yourself, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and launch a heavy slash towards a young rat.
    From a low stance, Synbios launches a heavy slash towards a young rat, before resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Thyr: 
    With rapid movements, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and deliver a lightning-fast slash against a young rat.
    Moving quickly, Synbios delivers a lightning-fast slash against a young rat, resheathing Eternal Mercy in one motion.

    Mir: 
    With flowing, weaving movements, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard, launching a calculated slash against a young rat.
    Weaving and moving fluidly into motion, Synbios launches a calculated slash against a young rat before resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Arash: 
    Foregoing any semblance of restraint, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and loose a savage slash against a young rat.
    Stepping forward without restraint, Synbios savagely draws and slashes a young rat, before quickly resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Sanya: 
    With supreme focus, you approach from a dead angle and draw Eternal Mercy, slashing a young rat as you do so.
    Striking from a dead angle, Synbios draws and delivers a focused slash against a young rat, before resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Naverre
  • Razzlo
    Razzlo Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Synbios said:
    Ok, let's talk about how the generic drawslash message can be modified by your current stance. 

    From an old thread

    Unstanced: 
    With expert precision, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and unleash a vicious slash towards a young rat.
    Synbios unleashes a vicious slash towards a young rat before resheathing his blade, Eternal Mercy.

    Doya: 
    Firmly steadying yourself, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and launch a heavy slash towards a young rat.
    From a low stance, Synbios launches a heavy slash towards a young rat, before resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Thyr: 
    With rapid movements, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and deliver a lightning-fast slash against a young rat.
    Moving quickly, Synbios delivers a lightning-fast slash against a young rat, resheathing Eternal Mercy in one motion.

    Mir: 
    With flowing, weaving movements, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard, launching a calculated slash against a young rat.
    Weaving and moving fluidly into motion, Synbios launches a calculated slash against a young rat before resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Arash: 
    Foregoing any semblance of restraint, you draw Eternal Mercy from its scabbard and loose a savage slash against a young rat.
    Stepping forward without restraint, Synbios savagely draws and slashes a young rat, before quickly resheathing Eternal Mercy.

    Sanya: 
    With supreme focus, you approach from a dead angle and draw Eternal Mercy, slashing a young rat as you do so.
    Striking from a dead angle, Synbios draws and delivers a focused slash against a young rat, before resheathing Eternal Mercy.
    I think it might be cool if the personal message has you imagining the element attached to the stance. Arash can be something such as...Your mind a dancing flame, you release an unrestrained slash at blah blah.

    Mir can be something like...Body moving like undulating waves, you send a veiled strike at blah blah.

    Something like that.
  • Razzlo
    Razzlo Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Kingfisher catches a Silverback goes into a Rain at Sunrise...
    Synbios
  • Trey
    Trey Member Posts: 4,890 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Trey's got Cat Crosses the Courtyard down pat, I'm a cocky fuck.

    SynbiosRazzloNizana
  • Synbios
    Synbios Member Posts: 4,634 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Razzlo said:
    I think it might be cool if the personal message has you imagining the element attached to the stance. Arash can be something such as...Your mind a dancing flame, you release an unrestrained slash at blah blah.

    Mir can be something like...Body moving like undulating waves, you send a veiled strike at blah blah.

    Something like that.

    Initially thought of that, but considering that they already imagine the element when they enter the associated stance, it would come across as overly redundant.

  • Gamden
    Gamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I like the scabbard Idea!
    I dont want to derail, but I would be nice if you actually sheathed your blade after each kill instead of between each hit. Looks kinda stupid drawing your blade and sheathing it the whole time.
    But thats maybe just me..



  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,508 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can you customise a scabbard sheathed "sound" along with its description?




    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • Nim
    Nim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sounds like a custom reaction, maybe.
    Melodie
  • Razzlo
    Razzlo Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Well, I know I have seen someone have a thing happen when they wield their Shield of Absorption, but I think the sword would be hard. To me, it looks sword honestly never leaves the scabbard (coding wise) except with certain attacks like impale happen. Maybe a coder could correct me though if I am wrong, but when I used the standard client on the main website my scabbard never emptied while hunting...it always showed it was full with the sword. So I am not sure that the reaction or emote on the scabbard or sword would be easy to code.
  • Synbios
    Synbios Member Posts: 4,634 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Razzlo: As far as I can speculate(halp pls @Makarios), it looks like it really is coded that way - that the sword never actually 'leaves' the scabbard, except during impales.

  • Nim
    Nim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It doesn't send any GMCP messages or anything.

    So if you got it as a reaction, it'd probably have to be a bunch of reactions, perhaps even one reaction per attack (plus any you'd want for normal drawing)... and who knows if they do attack reactions... but, that's the avenue I'd look into.
  • Tharvis
    Tharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Can you customise a scabbard sheathed "sound" along with its description?
    I tried that, apparently not able to gag the normal sheathing sound. Just a reaction that triggers on the same prompt as the sheathing/drawing.
    That's what I was told by the customisation team anyway.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

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