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Shaman Room Hindrance
While I didn't think of this while classleads were open, I noticed a problem with Shaman that is rather glaring now that it's been pointed out.
Shaman have been a hybrid momentum/prep class for awhile, with vodun being mostly prep and curses being mostly momentum. With Maligus we're becoming even more hybridized where our prep comes from momentum.
The problem is, we have no way to make people stick around to allow us to build any momentum. People can simply leave the room after one or two hits prepping limbs and we cannot stop it, as that point we'll have stuck one affliction which they will instantly cure before coming back to continue prep.
Both of the classes with which Shaman share similarities have room hindrance (specifically, Jester and Apostate) however for some reason we're boned. With the addition of Spiritlore we also have some skills that are decidedly unfinished and in this case I'd like to focus on Tarnel, which is essentially a web tattoo with a slightly faster balance time at the cost of the spirit binding (which is an extreme cost). I propose modifying this skill into room hindrance of some kind.
Here's a few possibilities:
1) Replace Tarnel's active with a targetted active similar to pinshot or hamstring, or make it room wide similar to Occultist tentacles
2) Instead of adding a percent chance to stop movement, a mechanic that most dislike, give an active to Tarnel which strongly encourages the target to stay in the room. For instance have it give a 60 second affliction that drains mana extremely quickly while the target is not in the room with the Shaman (Maybe 10% of current mana every 2 seconds?)
3) Make the active similar to engage, however have it do a large amount of mana damage instead of health damage upon leaving the room
4) Make the active slow down enemies or a single target in a manner similar to rubble or a broken leg when they are within 3 rooms of the Shaman
Just throwing ideas out there, Tarnel as it stands is utterly useless and I think applying a change to it to fix one of the more noticeable flaws with the Shaman class is a good way to go.
Shaman have been a hybrid momentum/prep class for awhile, with vodun being mostly prep and curses being mostly momentum. With Maligus we're becoming even more hybridized where our prep comes from momentum.
The problem is, we have no way to make people stick around to allow us to build any momentum. People can simply leave the room after one or two hits prepping limbs and we cannot stop it, as that point we'll have stuck one affliction which they will instantly cure before coming back to continue prep.
Both of the classes with which Shaman share similarities have room hindrance (specifically, Jester and Apostate) however for some reason we're boned. With the addition of Spiritlore we also have some skills that are decidedly unfinished and in this case I'd like to focus on Tarnel, which is essentially a web tattoo with a slightly faster balance time at the cost of the spirit binding (which is an extreme cost). I propose modifying this skill into room hindrance of some kind.
Here's a few possibilities:
1) Replace Tarnel's active with a targetted active similar to pinshot or hamstring, or make it room wide similar to Occultist tentacles
2) Instead of adding a percent chance to stop movement, a mechanic that most dislike, give an active to Tarnel which strongly encourages the target to stay in the room. For instance have it give a 60 second affliction that drains mana extremely quickly while the target is not in the room with the Shaman (Maybe 10% of current mana every 2 seconds?)
3) Make the active similar to engage, however have it do a large amount of mana damage instead of health damage upon leaving the room
4) Make the active slow down enemies or a single target in a manner similar to rubble or a broken leg when they are within 3 rooms of the Shaman
Just throwing ideas out there, Tarnel as it stands is utterly useless and I think applying a change to it to fix one of the more noticeable flaws with the Shaman class is a good way to go.
1
Comments
Has, since the introduction of Spritlore/Maligus, Vodun been nerfed in any way?
How does the circle of binding work exactly?
I'm curious what the context is here.
Tarnel balance time is 2 seconds with nimble, which is worse than vodun bind. Furthermore the requirement to lose binding means it's a one time per fight thing - rebinding tarnel requires 6 seconds prone, 4 of those seconds entering no commands. It's bloody terrible.
Ideas 2 and 4 are probably a bit overpowered, but just thought I'd add some alternatives to what most classes already have.
With proper execution, you can lock before someone even realizes it!
Adding room hindrance to Spiritlore is easily balanced out with the fact that you have to use a binding for the hindrance, losing out on significant offensive potential.
Changes are being made to vodun and puppetry to bring it closer in line with other forms of prep. According to class lead responses fashions are going to decay quicker and dolls are going to be lost on death. As stated previously as well, the gaining of fashions as Shaman is moving towards using momentum and as such we need a way to keep people in room that is not 100% countered by riding.
If someone can explain why Jester gets multiple forms of room hindrance, while the more momentum based Shaman does not be my guest.
You don't need any room hindrance because your optimal play if someone is running away to break your momentum a lot is to just make a doll. You have mangles, etc to deal with that. Speculation about future changes is pointless for the scope of this conversation. There's no point discussing anything beyond the way things are now.
As for Santar's 'just make a doll' I'd love to! But I can't use Maligus if they run before I get more than two afflictions on them, which is my entire point. We're obviously moving towards a momentum based style but like early 2h Runewarden we have no ability to gain that momentum if the person we're fighting doesn't sit there and let us.
The only defense to not getting locked right away is to run. No shield.
Shaman and Jester fighting styles aren't even comparable. Not even close.
Party right, party hard,
Sing and dance, perfect bard.
Prefarar loop, accentato whore,Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.
mass agree button (in lieu of an agree button)
I never really used bananas when I was jester. The class doesn't need them, and it unnecessarily having them is not reason to unnecessarily give shaman them.
Icefort > Tower, so unsure why you keep mentioning Tower.
Maligus is obviously not necessary for fashioning. You can fashion without having momentum. And once you have fashions, you have hinder (read: the best hinder in the game).
Will dispute the icefort > tower. Mechanically accurate, obviously but the cost of binding icefort makes it much, much less worthwhile. Either are countered entirely by riding, but Jester gives up no part of it's offense to use tower.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Delete fashion, give Shamans room hinder.
Discuss.
If I had spent the hours Makarios spent giving you a whole new skill just to read this shit, I'd put Runelore back on your whiny ass so fast.
Shaman is better than it has ever been.
Your complaint is like a knight saying 'I don't want to target limbs, but I want their limbs to break so I can disembowel them'.
I do use them, I've been pretty successful with Shaman the last couple weeks.
I'm trying to show that a lot of Spiritlore is designed towards gathering momentum against someone, using that momentum to drain their mana and gathering fashions that way. I'd like to use this, instead of traditional fashioning because I think it's an interesting direction to take the class. Problem is this isn't often possible because anyone that's not a momentum class can simply walk out after 3 curses.
So what I'm presenting here is an idea to make another binding in Spiritlore viable to make that playstyle a possibility. Because it's a binding in Spiritlore, another offensive binding would have to be dropped, which should make this a relatively balanced change overall. Likely, a Shaman doing this wouldn't be able to relapse curses, or use vodun imbibe balanceless to complete locks. It's a tradeoff, not an unfair one to fully flesh out a play style that is already 90% finished.
Do you also think that monks should have massive room hinder? Or bards? Or serpents? Or Blademasters?
What makes shaman so special? You already have more options than every other class.