Limb Damage Equation concept

Ernam

Nim said:

Ernam said:

People are more than welcome to try to crack it.  Good luck!

Does that include reverse engineering your formula? That could be a fun weekend project.

Even with exact outputs (instead of windows), I'd be very surprised if anyone could do this, although I'm sure a few people out there could do it.  The goal is that nobody would need to, because Manda is all you'd ever need, and is far more than just an equation, to boot.

Nim

Intended output (and behavior in general!) relies on environmental assumptions (running it in mudlet) that I have total control over.

Austere

Nim said:

Ernam said:

People are more than welcome to try to crack it.  Good luck!

Does that include reverse engineering your formula? That could be a fun weekend project.

With as many professional coders achaea has, that would be a terrible thing to challenge. . Don't bite that bait @Ernam‌ , there is a hook behind it. 

Ernam

I'm honestly not concerned.  If you can figure it out, you deserve to know it.  I'm also not too optimistic about their odds of actually figuring it out at all.  Challenge on.

Atalkez

Ernam said:

I'm honestly not concerned.  If you can figure it out, you deserve to know it.  I'm also not too optimistic about their odds of actually figuring it out at all.  Challenge on.

I'm sure I speak for alot of people when I say:

Challenge accepted

Nemutaur

Hmm, going to be hard to reverse-engineer without a copy of Manda. Ah well whatever, would have been funny but why bother.

Austere

Ernam said:

I'm honestly not concerned.  If you can figure it out, you deserve to know it.  I'm also not too optimistic about their odds of actually figuring it out at all.  Challenge on.

Man, I swear.  I even warned you. .I just wonder who is going to be the first to crack it.  At least you didn't link everyone to a dropbox with it. . Could have done worse I suppose. .Seriously, sometimes I do give good advice. .

Ernam

*shrug* it isn't as if I own the equation.  I'm just the only one who knows it.

Have fun with the mental breakdowns/anguish of figuring this out, and in all probability, the prospect of accepting defeat!  

Atalkez

Ernam said:

*shrug* it isn't as if I own the equation.  I'm just the only one who knows it.

Have fun with the mental breakdowns/anguish of figuring this out, and in all probability, the prospect of accepting defeat!  

Credit prize for the winner you said?

Valaria

Atalkez said:

Ernam said:

*shrug* it isn't as if I own the equation.  I'm just the only one who knows it.

Have fun with the mental breakdowns/anguish of figuring this out, and in all probability, the prospect of accepting defeat!  

Credit prize for the winner you said?

Tahquil

In a way that y = 2x is the same as y = 4x/2  or  2y = 4x.

Maybe you should say that you can replicate the results of the IRE equation instead of saying you have the exact equation.

The above is not the exact same equation but it does replicate the results. I mean if you write code to fire on the exact match of y=2x it's not going to start firing on y =4x/2. Sorry to nitpick.

I honestly won't buy this since if Ernam gets into ACC it's going to be free anyway. Why would I buy something to be jibbed later if it gets released for free?

Iocun

Without having really followed this thread, I'm just throwing this one out: talking about "the formula IRE uses" already makes a big assumption, namely that a formula is being used. Unless one of their coders once stated this, this isn't a given fact at all. It might very well be an algorithmic process, a lookup table with interpolations, etc.

Who knows, maybe it's based on IRE keeping a number of apes of different sizes in a cage and base player limb health on physically measuring the force it takes to break those apes' limbs.

Ernam

Not sure what the point of this line of arguments is.  It gives the right answer.  Every time.  Is that not enough?

And for academic purposes, @Tahquil, y=2x and y=4x/2 are the same equation, mathematically.  They are not the same equation in spoken English, which doesn't matter at all from a math/programming perspective, aside from some expressions of the same equation use a few more CPU cycles than others.

Cooper

The argument is one you created yourself. I think it's pretty cool that you spent the time to figure out limb damage as far as you did.

Claiming that you have the exact equation IRE uses, without being able to prove it, and it being incredibly unlikely, is the reason people are questioning whether it's truly accurate or not.

Attempting to force your way into the ACC with this, and being generally arrogant about it are other problems.

If you want to sell your system - great, do that. But you'll get a lot better response if you left out all the chest thumping and bragging about things you don't know are true. Say "this limb counter has been 100% accurate for every break scenario that either I or my customers have tested, and is as close to the real limb breaking formula that I've ever seen", not "this is 100% the exact equation Achaea uses and is 100% perfect".

Ernam

Would appreciate a link to the forum ignore function.  Apparently communication bans aren't what they used to be.

Cynlael

And this is why you have the reputation that you do.

Tael

While I find the tone of a lot of this as noisome as many other people here, I can confirm that there is a formula and Ernam knows the formula. So if you want a testimonial, there you go. He may be full of himself, but he's not full of shit.

He definitely knows it and, philosophical problems of induction aside, if you saw it you would know that it's pretty definitely right. While I guess it's theoretically possible that the formula differs for extreme health values or a miniscule proportion of corner cases, I would bet everything I own that the formula he found is the exact formula (or, more formally, is functionally identical to the formula used by the game).

(Also, the limbtracker thing he sells is compiled code, so reverse engineering it is unlikely, though I suppose you could theoretically use it to help you figure out the formula by feeding it artificial health values, which would be a lot easier than trying to figure out the formula by actually finding people with those health values and breaking their limbs.)

Cynlael

Tael said:

I can confirm that there is a formula and Ernam knows the formula.
He definitely knows it

Since it's clearly gone over your head, as much as it's gone over his... You can literally not confirm anything about it being the exact formula that IRE uses, unless you actually work for IRE, and can physically see the formula. (Hint: Neither of you do, or can)

Speculation != fact. It may produce results, and that's fine, that's not what people have an issue with though.

Remember the last time he openly claimed things like this? I do!

Tael

Cynlael said:

Tael said:

I can confirm that there is a formula and Ernam knows the formula.
He definitely knows it

Since it's clearly gone over your head, as much as it's gone over his... You can literally not confirm anything about it being the exact formula that IRE uses, unless you actually work for IRE, and can physically see the formula.

Speculation != fact. It may produce results, and that's fine, that's not what people have an issue with though.

It works for every single health value I've ever seen, down to the single point. He has tested it for god only knows how many health values. I've tested it for a few dozen too.

And the formula itself is very simple, very elegant, and makes a ton of sense from a programming and game design (e.g., simple to balance) perspective.

Yes, you can never know that it's the exact formula. You can also never know for certain that the sun will come up tomorrow, but it's still silly to act like people who say it will come up are ignorant or mistaken. The fact that induction can never be entirely proven does not preclude talking about facts - that's a category error - a philosophically naive misunderstanding of what an empirical "fact" actually is, of what the word "fact" means in an empirical context.

Having seen it and tested it, the probability that his formula is functionally identical to the one IRE uses is very high - high enough that I feel extremely comfortable asserting that it is the formula (or is functionally identical to it - the actual algorithm might, of course, be (and probably is) different).

Edit: To be clear, I haven't just used his script (I have never used any of his scripts), but in fact know the formula Ernam is talking about. Unfortunately, one condition of knowing it was that I would not reveal it without his permission and, while I find this whole thing pretty distasteful (each of the dozen times it has now come up in various threads), I'm not going back on that.

Nim

oh no, not compiled code, I might have to read byte code to figure it out

(teehee)

Cynlael

Tael, you're drifting very far into Ernam logic now. Back out while you have the chance.

Nim

Thing is that @Ernam is taking this as a mathematical issue when it's actually a marketing issue. My advise is to just be honest. Say the formula's been tested and confirmed identical to IRE's with over X distinct samples of data. Bam, done, everyone's happy, and that's really the point of marketing. That and money.

Tael

Cynlael said:

Tael, you're drifting very far into Ernam logic now. Back out while you have the chance.

I'm indeed backing out now - my only intention was to confirm that he's not bullshitting (about this specific thing anyway), both from the perspective of testing the equation and from the perspective of seeing it (i.e., it makes sense programmatically and for game design/balancing purposes).

But as for the rest of it: professional hazard. This shit is literally my job (research science), and I maintain a pretty active interest in philosophy of science to boot. The notion that any discussion of "facts" in an empirical context is mistaken is a frustratingly common confusion and I'm bad about just letting sleeping dogs lie when I see it, particularly when someone tries to condescendingly explain to me about the problem of induction.

But anyway, everyone can go back to arguing about Ernam now.

Ernam

Cynlael said:

Remember the last time he openly claimed things like this? I do!

Funny that you should mention this, since it is a perfect example of someone putting words in my mouth, then arguing with those words.  I clearly stated that I sent a lengthy email describing what my system does, how it does it, and that I intended to distribute it, and included links and a password to the site, to Sarapis, Tecton, and I believe, Makarios.

All I ever claimed is that it never breaks any game rules, and that I ran it by the game admin without issue.  [Bluef] Stating that I said Sarapis endorsed anything was a blatant lie, intended to make me look dishonest, while simultaneously pissing off Sarapis, which worked until I explained what happened.

Perhaps you should just take this advice, @Cynlael.  If you don't like the system, then don't buy it.  Tell your friends not to buy it.  Create a thread about why people shouldn't buy it.  Whatever you want.  But please don't focus your entire argument around the accusation that I am dishonest or somehow misleading anyone, because that has yet to actually ever occur.  I realize it is currently pop culture to attack my integrity, but your points are so far both invalid and irrelevant.

Also, Godzilla has (almost) nothing to do with this system, nor does your theory that I'm out to dupe the entire Achaea community.  Take your negativity and dishonest accusations somewhere else please, so we can discuss the topic of the thread.

Rangor

so like is there one equation that includes every limb damage dealing attack from any class. Or is there one equation/counter for each class?

Ernam

Nope, different equations for each class.

Iocun

I have the shatter equation!

Austere

Iocun said:

I have the shatter equation!

I bet it is not the exact same as IRE's. Share or lies. 

Bluef

Ernam said:

Funny that you should mention this, since it is a perfect example of someone putting words in my mouth, then arguing with those words.  I clearly stated that I sent a lengthy email describing what my system does, how it does it, and that I intended to distribute it, and included links and a password to the site, to Sarapis, Tecton, and I believe, Makarios.

All I ever claimed is that it never breaks any game rules, and that I ran it by the game admin without issue.  [Bluef] Stating that I said Sarapis endorsed anything was a blatant lie, intended to make me look dishonest, while simultaneously pissing off Sarapis, which worked until I explained what happened.

Perhaps you should just take this advice, @Cynlael.  If you don't like the system, then don't buy it.  Tell your friends not to buy it.  Create a thread about why people shouldn't buy it.  Whatever you want.  But please don't focus your entire argument around the accusation that I am dishonest or somehow misleading anyone, because that has yet to actually ever occur.  I realize it is currently pop culture to attack my integrity, but your points are so far both invalid and irrelevant.

Also, Godzilla has (almost) nothing to do with this system, nor does your theory that I'm out to dupe the entire Achaea community.  Take your negativity and dishonest accusations somewhere else please, so we can discuss the topic of the thread.

No. This is an example of someone putting words where they belong:

(Project 9): Ernam says, "It is 100% legal, Sarapis has read the site."

Your contributions to the conversation, including your admission that you AFK PvP via automation, is right here. No mention of an email. No mention of running it by admin other than the comment that Sarapis said the site was 100% good-to-go, which was obviously intended to infer his support of it. 

Here you're even charging that clan with being in some way responsible for your forum reputation:

I understand that it is the status quo to judge people based on their forum popularity and P9 friend list, but in this case, I'm going to have to ask that you take a step back and accept the fact that you actually don't know me, don't know what I've done or plan on doing, or why I do it - because you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions.

The reality is that everyone's forum reputation is formed by what they write here and the way they write it. It's really that simple. If yours isn't up to snuff, look to yourself not to others. 

Before you start complaining that I'm contacting you and breaching some IC Ignore function, keep in mind too that you mentioned me here first - in violation of that function. Don't passive aggressively ask for the Ignore add-on either. Just stop pretending that you're a nice guy helping out the masses when in reality...

This will accomplish everyone's goal of finding out what they are (for free) while solving my goal of being able to have a positive, lasting impact on combat theory, without having to go super-saiyan (Celani) and losing my characters.

The only player you really care about is yourself.

True, we don't know you IRL. Maybe you're selfless. But again that's precisely why what you write on the forums and how you write it matters. 

You're the one who opened up this can of worms by boasting that you'd solved the equation. Then you moved on to peddling it. Finally, you tried to use it as a way to gatecrash your way into ACC. No one suggested that they had the right to your equation. People just said what they thought of the way you handled it after you solved it. Personally, I hope someone does the same thing and gives it out for free.

Tael

Ernam said:

Nope, different equations for each class.

I will say no more than this, but that's a pretty misleading way of putting it. The equation is mostly the same. There is definitely a unifying formula.

(Can someone else please solve it/reverse-engineer it so we can stop having these threads? @Nim ?)