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Permadeath

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  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I've only ever played Achaea as far as MUDs, but is this how 'remort' systems work in certain games?
    Permadeath is the one of the things I might do significantly different in a MUD. Along with races having more meaning, because they'd have longer lifespans.

    Goblin < Human < Centaur < Dwarf < Elf < etc...

    It'd be a detriment to pk systems since normally elves are "immortal" but killed through combat. In the other way they'd die of old age but.. revivable through combat? So in said hypothetical non-Achaean system, each combat death would essentially shave years off your soul or some other aspect of vitality.

    My necromancer class would die faster than normal but be able to regenerate years by stealing time from other players' lifespans. Badass, right? Much different kind of game balance than Achaean combat, to say the least. More rp-focused.
    So to me, remort comes in handy to limit players' access to certain races or classes, forcing some to be more rare than others. But to preserve prodigy/specialsnowflake avenues, remorted characters could spend their previous lives' skillpoints in a lesser class to greatly excel and be more powerful than a true newbie would be.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I actually think this idea fits in Achaea now.

    It lets people have a chance at resetting the one true consequence Achaea has left without completely starting a new character: having a bad reputation.

    Of course, people who deserve said reputations are likely to eventually recreate them, so I don't think it's a terribly dangerous idea in that regard.
    Ephram
  • LideronLideron Member Posts: 27 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Xith said:
    I've only ever played Achaea as far as MUDs, but is this how 'remort' systems work in certain games?


    I'm sure there's many different takes on it, but the only experience I have with it was that it the mechanism by which you gained multiclass.   Once you had reached the top level of experience and mastered all of your class skills, you could choose to undergo the remort process (which was actually fairly involved).  Once completed, you were "reborn" as your new class at Level 1.   You lost all access to any previous abilities at that time, and went about learning them all over again.  It wasn't until you mastered all of your new skills, and bashed all the way back up to the exp cap that you were granted access to a mix of abilities from both classes.   

    I'm interested to see if we'll have to make some sacrifice (albeit temporary) of a similar manner here when choosing to learn a second class.  There was something oddly fun about starting over as Level 1 without having to start a new character to do it.


  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Lideron, do you just mean the first time you learn the class?  My understanding is that we'll be able to switch freely between classes.  Not within in a single skirmish or anything, but you could be Paladin one day, serpent the next, and so forth.  
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 2015

    Seems like a glorified namechange to me. (not that it's a particularly bad idea, just that it's already been shot down like, bi-annually, for the last 13 years)

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Part of my plan involved questing to return from the Underworld too. Instead of rezzes or praying.
        I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
      2. TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,374 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I think remort system work better in smaller game environments with a heavier leaning to RP. I can see it be more widely accepted there than here where who is the player behind the character bares more weight than the character itself. There is also the cool-down period to take into consideration. A player might kill off their char in the heat of the moment here and remort only to find they don't enjoy where they are now. You can easily say "welp to bad" which will result in much buyers remorse. The chances of alienating this woeful player, turning them bitter and jaded or losing them altogether is high.
      3. JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
        Amaryllis built in a lot of cooldown into her version of "remort" (which I now know is what this concept is called), but Sarapis had already considered it in general and they're not doing it anytime soon.  
      4. EphramEphram Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        For the record, @Amarillys‌, I love your version of this idea, with a few minor tweaks. (No association at all with the past character, so pets would have to be gone for good. And pets cost so much because they're custom creations, so just like you can't exchange them, you wouldn't expect to see them refunded.) 

        But as a player who's brought up remorts in the past, doesn't surprise me that @Sarapis says it won't happen. I am impressed that they did consider it for a while though.
      5. TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,374 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I mean month or two down the track with the buyers remorse. Build a new character and just not get what you want. I think people have proven time and time again that they can stay mad for quite s long time.
      6. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Ephram said:
        For the record, @Amarillys‌, I love your version of this idea, with a few minor tweaks. (No association at all with the past character, so pets would have to be gone for good. And pets cost so much because they're custom creations, so just like you can't exchange them, you wouldn't expect to see them refunded.) 
        I did suggest the pet would go away, but I could see either give the credits back or the one artefact that gives you the discount on the pets at least.



      7. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Tahquil said:
        I mean month or two down the track with the buyers remorse. Build a new character and just not get what you want. I think people have proven time and time again that they can stay mad for quite s long time.
        Yeah, the problem is, that's their problem. In the same way that a class change is someone's problem or a city change or any actual decision in the game is their problem. If they don't get what they want, it's on them.



      8. TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,374 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        It's a lot difference between writing a sorry post on public and drawing someone back from Thoth's loving embrace.
      9. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Tahquil said:
        It's a lot difference between writing a sorry post on public and drawing someone back from Thoth's loving embrace.
        Not really. Neither -really- makes any difference in that they both accomplish nothing. Ask @Caoimhaen‌. Sorry post on public gets you a whole lotta nothing.



        Caoimhaen
      10. EllodinEllodin HawaiiMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 951 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        that's not really an accurate way to view consequences of actions, results aren't as binary as "had an effect" or "didn't have an effect."  there are many factors that go into a purposeful apology, and there are apologetic posts on public that meant something to a group of people moving forward and served a distinct purpose in some character's development.
        And as he slept he dreamed a dream, and this was his dream.
        Herenicus
      11. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Ellodin said:
        that's not really an accurate way to view consequences of actions, results aren't as binary as "had an effect" or "didn't have an effect."  there are many factors that go into a purposeful apology, and there are apologetic posts on public that meant something to a group of people moving forward and served a distinct purpose in some character's development.
        I know, but since my idea got squashed so readily, it makes me grumpy :stuck_out_tongue: 




      12. KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I read the OP and I'm kind of on the fence about it. Before Achaea, I came from a MUD that had pretty severe death penalties. Like not only would you lose some experience and some of your stats, but you dropped all of your equipment as well and could potentially be shit out of luck if someone decides to take it all when/if they came across it. That led to some people not caring about dying and being reckless, and some people adopted the logging in/sitting in safe room approach because they didn't want to risk what they worked so hard to achieve. I think that MUD actually ended up implementing a HC mode, but chosen through character creation similar to playing Diablo. If your character dies, either that's it or it takes about a week to be able to resurrect yourself. 

        I also think about the way I play Kyrra and how sometimes I wish I could just start over. I've been playing on and off for such a long time, I've achieved a lot with the character, and there's no real tangible goals for me in Achaea any more unless I do a faction change and that's not likely going to happen because so much of Kyrra's history is ingrained into who she is and why she is the way she is.

        Sometimes when I want that starting over aspect, I make an alt. I know a lot of people are against alting for various reasons but it really is a good way to still be actively involved even when you don't want to be playing your main character. When alting though, the main thing that runs through my head is how much it sucks that my new character doesn't have all the shinies that Kyrra has, and well, there is the plain fact that I've made a major monetary investment in Kyrra over the last three years which makes me feel obligated to play the character and get some use out of all the crap I paid money for.

        I think having the option to do something like that would be pretty nifty but I don't know how practical it would ever be. But I could just see someone like @Seftin waking up one morning and realising that he didn't just class-hop the night before while intoxicated.
        (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

        Amarillys
      13. SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
        Kyrra said:
        I read the OP and I'm kind of on the fence about it. Before Achaea, I came from a MUD that had pretty severe death penalties. Like not only would you lose some experience and some of your stats, but you dropped all of your equipment as well and could potentially be shit out of luck if someone decides to take it all when/if they came across it. That led to some people not caring about dying and being reckless, and some people adopted the logging in/sitting in safe room approach because they didn't want to risk what they worked so hard to achieve. I think that MUD actually ended up implementing a HC mode, but chosen through character creation similar to playing Diablo. If your character dies, either that's it or it takes about a week to be able to resurrect yourself. 

        I also think about the way I play Kyrra and how sometimes I wish I could just start over. I've been playing on and off for such a long time, I've achieved a lot with the character, and there's no real tangible goals for me in Achaea any more unless I do a faction change and that's not likely going to happen because so much of Kyrra's history is ingrained into who she is and why she is the way she is.

        Sometimes when I want that starting over aspect, I make an alt. I know a lot of people are against alting for various reasons but it really is a good way to still be actively involved even when you don't want to be playing your main character. When alting though, the main thing that runs through my head is how much it sucks that my new character doesn't have all the shinies that Kyrra has, and well, there is the plain fact that I've made a major monetary investment in Kyrra over the last three years which makes me feel obligated to play the character and get some use out of all the crap I paid money for.

        I think having the option to do something like that would be pretty nifty but I don't know how practical it would ever be. But I could just see someone like @Seftin waking up one morning and realising that he didn't just class-hop the night before while intoxicated.
        My lawyer will be contacting you.
        AmarillysTharvis
      14. KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Seftin said:
        Kyrra said:
        I read the OP and I'm kind of on the fence about it. Before Achaea, I came from a MUD that had pretty severe death penalties. Like not only would you lose some experience and some of your stats, but you dropped all of your equipment as well and could potentially be shit out of luck if someone decides to take it all when/if they came across it. That led to some people not caring about dying and being reckless, and some people adopted the logging in/sitting in safe room approach because they didn't want to risk what they worked so hard to achieve. I think that MUD actually ended up implementing a HC mode, but chosen through character creation similar to playing Diablo. If your character dies, either that's it or it takes about a week to be able to resurrect yourself. 

        I also think about the way I play Kyrra and how sometimes I wish I could just start over. I've been playing on and off for such a long time, I've achieved a lot with the character, and there's no real tangible goals for me in Achaea any more unless I do a faction change and that's not likely going to happen because so much of Kyrra's history is ingrained into who she is and why she is the way she is.

        Sometimes when I want that starting over aspect, I make an alt. I know a lot of people are against alting for various reasons but it really is a good way to still be actively involved even when you don't want to be playing your main character. When alting though, the main thing that runs through my head is how much it sucks that my new character doesn't have all the shinies that Kyrra has, and well, there is the plain fact that I've made a major monetary investment in Kyrra over the last three years which makes me feel obligated to play the character and get some use out of all the crap I paid money for.

        I think having the option to do something like that would be pretty nifty but I don't know how practical it would ever be. But I could just see someone like @Seftin waking up one morning and realising that he didn't just class-hop the night before while intoxicated.
        My lawyer will be contacting you.
        Is he hot?
        (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

        Amarillys
      15. SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
        Kyrra said:
        Seftin said:
        Kyrra said:
        I read the OP and I'm kind of on the fence about it. Before Achaea, I came from a MUD that had pretty severe death penalties. Like not only would you lose some experience and some of your stats, but you dropped all of your equipment as well and could potentially be shit out of luck if someone decides to take it all when/if they came across it. That led to some people not caring about dying and being reckless, and some people adopted the logging in/sitting in safe room approach because they didn't want to risk what they worked so hard to achieve. I think that MUD actually ended up implementing a HC mode, but chosen through character creation similar to playing Diablo. If your character dies, either that's it or it takes about a week to be able to resurrect yourself. 

        I also think about the way I play Kyrra and how sometimes I wish I could just start over. I've been playing on and off for such a long time, I've achieved a lot with the character, and there's no real tangible goals for me in Achaea any more unless I do a faction change and that's not likely going to happen because so much of Kyrra's history is ingrained into who she is and why she is the way she is.

        Sometimes when I want that starting over aspect, I make an alt. I know a lot of people are against alting for various reasons but it really is a good way to still be actively involved even when you don't want to be playing your main character. When alting though, the main thing that runs through my head is how much it sucks that my new character doesn't have all the shinies that Kyrra has, and well, there is the plain fact that I've made a major monetary investment in Kyrra over the last three years which makes me feel obligated to play the character and get some use out of all the crap I paid money for.

        I think having the option to do something like that would be pretty nifty but I don't know how practical it would ever be. But I could just see someone like @Seftin waking up one morning and realising that he didn't just class-hop the night before while intoxicated.
        My lawyer will be contacting you.
        Is he hot?
        About as hot as you're supposed to drink Earl Grey tea.
      16. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Seftin said:
        Kyrra said:
        Seftin said:
        Kyrra said:
        I read the OP and I'm kind of on the fence about it. Before Achaea, I came from a MUD that had pretty severe death penalties. Like not only would you lose some experience and some of your stats, but you dropped all of your equipment as well and could potentially be shit out of luck if someone decides to take it all when/if they came across it. That led to some people not caring about dying and being reckless, and some people adopted the logging in/sitting in safe room approach because they didn't want to risk what they worked so hard to achieve. I think that MUD actually ended up implementing a HC mode, but chosen through character creation similar to playing Diablo. If your character dies, either that's it or it takes about a week to be able to resurrect yourself. 

        I also think about the way I play Kyrra and how sometimes I wish I could just start over. I've been playing on and off for such a long time, I've achieved a lot with the character, and there's no real tangible goals for me in Achaea any more unless I do a faction change and that's not likely going to happen because so much of Kyrra's history is ingrained into who she is and why she is the way she is.

        Sometimes when I want that starting over aspect, I make an alt. I know a lot of people are against alting for various reasons but it really is a good way to still be actively involved even when you don't want to be playing your main character. When alting though, the main thing that runs through my head is how much it sucks that my new character doesn't have all the shinies that Kyrra has, and well, there is the plain fact that I've made a major monetary investment in Kyrra over the last three years which makes me feel obligated to play the character and get some use out of all the crap I paid money for.

        I think having the option to do something like that would be pretty nifty but I don't know how practical it would ever be. But I could just see someone like @Seftin waking up one morning and realising that he didn't just class-hop the night before while intoxicated.
        My lawyer will be contacting you.
        Is he hot?
        About as hot as you're supposed to drink Earl Grey tea.
        Yummy.



      17. SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
        Filthy casuals, you're probably not even British.
        Arador
      18. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Seftin said:
        Filthy casuals, you're probably not even British.
        Fuck you, I drink cream in my tea like any other person. Don't you go judging me!



      19. KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Amarillys said:
        Seftin said:
        Filthy casuals, you're probably not even British.
        Fuck you, I drink cream in my tea like any no other sane person. Don't you go judging me!
        FTFY

        Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
      20. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        Klendathu said:
        Amarillys said:
        Seftin said:
        Filthy casuals, you're probably not even British.
        Fuck you, I drink cream in my tea like any no other sane person. Don't you go judging me!
        BTFY
        FTFY



      21. KhairtKhairt Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
        I take my tea with nothing added, thank you very much


      22. JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,240 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Amarillys said:
        Seftin said:
        Filthy casuals, you're probably not even British.
        Fuck you, I drink cream in my tea like any other person. Don't you go judging me!
        Who on earth drinks tea with cream in it? It's not a hot chocolate you heretics
        Jules
      23. AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Arthur Dent did, and he learned the answer to life, the universe, and everything. What do you got?
        -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
        AmarillysTahquil
      24. JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,240 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        1v1 me irl
      25. KhairtKhairt Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
        Ok, you have to make me tea after, though


        Xith
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