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Permadeath

AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
Okay, I am going to preface this with: This is a terrible idea. I kind of like it but I also know this is going to get shot down in the biggest ball of flames the forums have ever seen. I expect this to be pretty brutal. That being said, please be kind. This is a serious idea but not one I really expect to have happen. This is to address something seen in at least two recent posts.

My next preface is: THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE ENTIRELY OPT-IN. NO ONE WOULD BE FORCING YOU TO KILL YOUR CHARACTER PERMANENTLY.

The premise: An RP event where Lord Thoth basically says He's done with our shit and He will begin to be more stringent about death in the future. Maybe the lack of souls going to the underworld (or wherever souls go in Achaea) is creating an imbalance and it needs to be rectified.

The system: Every X Achaean years (I'm personally thinking an RL year's worth rounded up which I think is like... 30?) your character is given a token of death. A character can then EMBRACE TOKEN as opposed to EMBRACE DEATH when they die. If they do this, their soul is taken to the underworld (or wherever) and a special deathsight shows that the character has been judged and their time has come to an end. A special tour with Thoth would show and they would be ushered to their final resting place. Afterwards, they would enter a new character creation. 

The effects: 
Class and lessons - With the advent of multi-class, the new character would have to choose one of their existing classes to embrace during re-birth. They retain their skill rank in all those skills and are automatically embraced in that class (if they were before). They would get 75% of the lessons back from other classes, and 75% of the lessons back from non-class skills. All non-spent lessons would be given to their new character.

Age - The player would get an option to choose an age for their character, some where between 20 and 30. This would ensure they are not quite as young as a new character.

Gold and credits - All gold on the character would drop upon embracing the token. The gold in the bank accounts would be given to the new character with 25% of the gold going to the city's coffers that the bank account exists in. All bound and non-bound credits are given to the new character.

Level - The new character would start at the same level as the old -10. So a dragon at level 99 would be level 89 with their new character. At level 105 they would be 95. Embracing token at level 30 would get you a level 20 character. The lesson difference would be taken out of the lessons transferred over to the new character (so they would lose about 50 lessons).

Ranks - All reset. Explorer, city, house. Even if the new character belongs to the same organisation as the old, they would still start back as a novice.

Artefacts - All transferred to the new character. A time in character creation would be spent with an option to trade any in for 2/3rds their value as you can now. The exception to this would be custom pets which the player would get a token back to make a new one (or the same) since custom pets are often associated with the character. A second possible exception would be custom descriptions. Likely they would need to be removed because, once again, descriptions are pretty much related to a specific character. They would likely get an ice figurine back for this but they might just lose them entirely. All things with resetting to the old character count as artefacts in this instance.

Designs - All designs would be made public. If you want them back you would have to purchase them just like anyone else. Any preserved design would be unpreserved and put on the public list and the old folders would go back to being fresh with 50 empty slots.

Tradeskills - Licenses held by a character would get a character a token (just like the ones we got for the big change, giving them a second reason for existing in the game.) All slots a character has bought will still be there with no refund. (If you bought four extra slots, you don't get credits back but you can still learn up to six trade skills.) 

Talisman pieces - All transferred.

Honours - All special honours would be removed from the new character would get a special honours stating something like this is not their first life. (Not a hundred percent sold on this but I could see arguments for separating trubies and restarts.) The old character's honours would still exist but with a special line with something like 'it's mortal coil spent, this character now rests in the halls of Lord Thoth'. The coat of arms would also still be bound to the old character.

The Trial - Instead of the current tour that newbies get, the new character would get their own starter scene. Something similar to the trial of old (I don't know anything about it, it just seems cool that the older characters would still get -something-.) During this they would pick their city just like any other newbie picks their city.

Tasks - Have to do them all! Muahahaha! Suffer!

The Body - The body of the old character would remain for a period of time (maybe three months?), allowing funerals and desecrations to be heaped upon it as they should. It would drop, too, just as a normal corpse so some fun battles could be waged over who gets the final say over a body. It would not be offerable, though, at least not to a shrine. Any essence in the corpse would be doubled (totally pretending I know what I'm talking about here) and would be given directly to the God of the Order they are in. Not in an Order? Too bad.

So, any questions? I did my best to average it out between benefits and negatives so it's still a sacrifice for the player but not a terrible one. RP wise it would open up the idea that death -can- be permanent for adventurers while still putting it entirely in the players' hands on whether they want to give up their character or play it forever.

tl:dr - Opt-in permadeath that has benefits to a new character while still being a bit painful. A good new chance for drama!



Tagged:
AegothRiashainKorbenTrillianaEphram
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Comments

  • ValariaValaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    i think we were that close to have perm-death if Yggdrasil didn't survive during Bal'met event.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
    RiashainTharvisTrilliana
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I like it.  I can't see myself doing it, but down the road, I could feel differently.  This is something that's going to appeal to someone who's been around for a long time and whose interest in Achaea is frankly waning.  It's probably a good way for them to refresh their interest in the game and keep them around (and buying items, because there's probably a huge chance of them trading in artefacts and buying new ones).  I don't think we have to worry about "everyone" doing it, either - because I'd far rather keep Jules and eventually use my other little char to try things on in another city and class than actually destroy Jules.  That holds true in terms of both financial and emotional investment for me, and I don't think I'd be that unusual there.  I do think that at least some people aren't going to read it properly/have a shitfit, yes.  
    Riashain
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    That's not permadeath. Permadeath is when you lose everything. Otherwise it's just a form of reincarnation with a new name.
    RiashainSenaKyriellaSaurrocene
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Call it what you will, the idea remains. 

    RiashainTvistor
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    It's sort of a cross between permadeath and reincarnation?  If you cared at all about your old character, it's gone, but it's also reincarnation in the sense that you're not losing everything, absolutely.  
    Riashain
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    We've actually considered something like this on the IRE level previously but nixxed it, sorry. If you want a new character, you need to start a new character. 

    Riashain
  • ValariaValaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    i think it should throw in a challenge.. you have to kill someone who is holding your artifact that you dropped from your previous corpse before your reincarnation. :) Ala Deadsoul or whatever.

    Also, maybe add non-forcible artifact that you can buy with option of 'true reincarnation'. nobody can see this artifact except you and you can decide if you want to die in a blaze of glory.

    also i like this route because it is too cheap to go for melodie's route where you cry blood, be evil and all that. it is like forcing your character to change because just you are bored with your city or whatever.

    It just me liking to keep my character what it is about. A cheerful forestal that Mhaldor don't want.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valaria said:
    i think it should throw in a challenge.. you have to kill someone who is holding your artifact that you dropped from your previous corpse before your reincarnation. :) Ala Deadsoul or whatever.

    Also, maybe add non-forcible artifact that you can buy with option of 'true reincarnation'. nobody can see this artifact except you and you can decide if you want to die in a blaze of glory.

    also i like this route because it is too cheap to go for melodie's route where you cry blood, be evil and all that. it is like forcing your character to change because just you are bored with your city or whatever.
    People already do that now with RELICS ;)
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    I think the conventional term for this in MUDs is "remort". And I can understand why IRE doesn't do it, for a number of reasons.
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    I get why it's not done. I also get that (like I said) it's not going to be done. I was just curious on other's people's thoughts. I also wanted to see if I could come up with a comprehensive way to make it work. Yes, it's technically reincarnation with a fancy name but I call it permadeath because the original character is dead FOREVER! Muahahahahaha! Call it a thought experiment if anything. I like that people are not actually throwing torches at me. Wasn't expecting that ^_^



    Jules
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I've played permadeath muds. Not fun, and the players stop engaging in shit for fear of losing the characters. Wish it'd work, even with reincarnation, but it won't have the same effect.
    Tharvis
  • OrzaansynOrzaansyn Member Posts: 663 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I do not think anyone sane would spend money for credits if their character could be deleted.
    image
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Daslin said:
    I've played permadeath muds. Not fun, and the players stop engaging in shit for fear of losing the characters. Wish it'd work, even with reincarnation, but it won't have the same effect.
    Orzaansyn said:
    I do not think anyone sane would spend money for credits if their character could be deleted.
    There'd be no fear of losing your characters in this system. You either opt to die a noble death or you don't. And you wouldn't lose the credits you bought. You would actually lose less than if you just class hopped around with the same character, the only difference is you also lose all that rep your OC built up over their time.



  • KaevanKaevan ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Member Posts: 152 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Since we do not have the dislike button any longer, I shall simply elaborate on what I think about this suggestion. I agree with you, this is a terrible idea. I do not feel that the avenues of RP that would be opened up would be worth it, much like pregnancy RP as it currently stands in the game. Mechanics as they stand do not support many of the suggested consequences of dying, either. 

    Creating this mechanic for the sake of drama seems like too much effort overall. There are easier ways to start story arcs and meaningful stories. 
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    I'm more than a little relieved that this doesn't just happen to me, and by "this" I mean people blatantly not reading the OP with any sort of care (maybe not reading it at all?), responding with no clue as to what the OP actually said, and pretty much getting away with it.  Then, the OP's author gets incredibly frustrated with a stream of responses from people who are so clearly responding to something entirely different from what the OP author wrote and tries to clarify (these clarifications are also usually not read carefully, or at all)...  Anyway, Sarapis had already considered doing what OP suggested (which again, is something totally different than what several of you are responding to), but said they'd decided against it.  
    NimEphram
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Amarillys said:
    Daslin said:
    I've played permadeath muds. Not fun, and the players stop engaging in shit for fear of losing the characters. Wish it'd work, even with reincarnation, but it won't have the same effect.
    Orzaansyn said:
    I do not think anyone sane would spend money for credits if their character could be deleted.
    There'd be no fear of losing your characters in this system. You either opt to die a noble death or you don't. And you wouldn't lose the credits you bought. You would actually lose less than if you just class hopped around with the same character, the only difference is you also lose all that rep your OC built up over their time.
    Clarification, for clarity sake. The game I played with permadeath like you described (paid benefits stay), I had a char who died a noble death, didn't want it, but for rp it happened. Now, the players would literally hole up in houses and shit when enemies showed up, because they didn't want death. In achaea, it's already impossible for that to exist, due to denizens and their repop. Why wouldn't that gnoll slaver want permadeath after tons of kiddies kill him repeatedly? Even opt in, it'd be harsh, plus suicide does that already. I'd explain better, but I'm currently located under a car, and the parts have shown up so I have to stop typing on my phone and make some cash.
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    @Jules Not really frustrated. This stuff happens. Or maybe it's a mis-communication. Just gotta role with things.

    @Daslin Clearly the gnolls have what we like to call 'Job Satisfaction'. And by we, I mean someone else. I don't know what that's like.



  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    That's good... I mean, we're still on page one and there are already a string of replies from people who clearly didn't bother to read your OP (or for that matter, Sarapis' post).  I'd at least be doing a bit of eye-rolling.  
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Oh! New idea to add to this!

    A primer - You have to activate it and wait for a month (24 hours) before you can EMBRACE TOKEN, this means you cannot just do it out of frustration, but have to have a little thought behind it. If not used in a month after it has been primed, it will go back to unprimed, meaning you have only a small window (24 hours) to use it until you have to wait another month. I think this would cut down on drama queens using this when they get fed up with something but not put such a huge burden on people to have to wait to have their final moment.



  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jules said:
    That's good... I mean, we're still on page one and there are already a string of replies from people who clearly didn't bother to read your OP (or for that matter, Sarapis' post).  I'd at least be doing a bit of eye-rolling.  
    No eye-rolling for me. I'm what you might call a laid back individual. Usually. I mean, sure, the wrong thing at the wrong time will set me off, but for the most part? I try to not let stuff bother me. When I'm upset, it's either for a good reason or my insecurities are acting up. Usually the latter. Anyways, nope, no eye-rolling for people not reading or miscommunicating. 



    JulesSarapis
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    I read shit, I'm just an ass. Amar knows this. Also, Jules, dial back your jabs. You're getting your own blood on the forums. Or at least take it on the chin and call people out. Kinda tired of your passive aggressive posts. Balls. I wanted to leave that well enough alone.
  • ValariaValaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015


    Kyrra said:
    Valaria said:
    i think it should throw in a challenge.. you have to kill someone who is holding your artifact that you dropped from your previous corpse before your reincarnation. :) Ala Deadsoul or whatever.

    Also, maybe add non-forcible artifact that you can buy with option of 'true reincarnation'. nobody can see this artifact except you and you can decide if you want to die in a blaze of glory.
    also i like this route because it is too cheap to go for melodie's route where you cry blood, be evil and all that. it is like forcing your character to change because just you are bored with your city or whatever.
    People already do that now with RELICS ;)

    um somewhat half-related but yes relic exists that i realized just now.


    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Daslin said:
    I read shit, I'm just an ass. Amar knows this. Also, Jules, dial back your jabs. You're getting your own blood on the forums. Or at least take it on the chin and call people out. Kinda tired of your passive aggressive posts. Balls. I wanted to leave that well enough alone.
    You're... a whole different level.  I've seen you absolutely revel in it when the forums hit rock bottom (which got you banned for a bit).  Some people just can't be bothered, some people just sort of repeat what the last person or two just said (can't be bothered) but you're saying that you read her OP and understood it, but chose to post a straight-faced reply that makes it seem like you didn't bother to read, or just didn't understand the post.  But it's a joke between friends, or something?  That's pretty twisted.  Seriously, what is wrong with you?  There, consider yourself "called out".  Anyway, this discussion pretty much ended with Sarapis' post, but it's fine/valid that Amaryllis still wants to explore what it could look like if it were implemented.  
  • RiashainRiashain ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Member Posts: 191 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Some of us just want to hit disagree and move on but now we have to tell you how we really feel. I think this idea blows personally. I would've settled for disagree but I can't.
    SilasTreyNim
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,549 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, ideas like this are exactly what the disagree button was good for.

    TreyKyrraAodfionn
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jules said:
     Anyway, this discussion pretty much ended with Sarapis' post, but it's fine/valid that Amaryllis still wants to explore what it could look like if it were implemented.  
    Yeah, Sarapants shut me down pretty hardcore right out of the gate. I wanted to have conversations and talk and frolic but noooooooooo. He had to make me cry :cry: But yeah, I wrote all that, I'ma keep talking about it. Muahahaha!



  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Kind of sucks, yeah, but I still like it when they give me an answer, even if it's not the one I was hoping for, because then I know.  Every once in awhile, things change, though.  They do reconsider years down the road sometimes.  
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Jules said:
    Daslin said:
    I read shit, I'm just an ass. Amar knows this. Also, Jules, dial back your jabs. You're getting your own blood on the forums. Or at least take it on the chin and call people out. Kinda tired of your passive aggressive posts. Balls. I wanted to leave that well enough alone.
    You're... a whole different level.  I've seen you absolutely revel in it when the forums hit rock bottom (which got you banned for a bit).  Some people just can't be bothered, some people just sort of repeat what the last person or two just said (can't be bothered) but you're saying that you read her OP and understood it, but chose to post a straight-faced reply that makes it seem like you didn't bother to read, or just didn't understand the post.  But it's a joke between friends, or something?  That's pretty twisted.  Seriously, what is wrong with you?  There, consider yourself "called out".  Anyway, this discussion pretty much ended with Sarapis' post, but it's fine/valid that Amaryllis still wants to explore what it could look like if it were implemented.  
    I am a whole different level. It's called human being. Please, ascend to our level, it'd be nice. And yeah, I get a kick out of being an ass (also, was banned because I shot down some stupid idea with the force of a thousand suns and was mildly offensive to a new person ((which turns out is worse than what I'm doing here))). As for why I posted that? I posted it because it was actually kinda relevant, and if -you- would read, you'd see I was at work at the time, and underneath a car. Y'know, making money. Doing my job. Part of it was a joke, and Amar knows not to take me too seriously. You on the other hand, make me laugh with how -seriously- you take everything. Twisted? Newp. What's wrong with me? Lotsa shit. ADD, some form of multiple personality disorder, dead father, near dead mother, broken back, deviated septum, holes in my ears, all sortsa junk, shall I continue? Newp. Now, I'm gonna say this once. IM PROUD OF YOU JULES! Even if you didn't tag me, you still did a small amount of calling out. Props and applause.

    tl;dr I think you're an idiot, and honestly, I doubt you're going to really read anything, let alone this tl;dr.

    edit: Fully expecting ban or moderation on my post, still not gonna change it, in hope Jules opens her eyes to how shit she acts sometimes.
    TrillianaShirszaeBluef
  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    And this is why we can't have nice things. You guys are going to get my thread closed :cry: 




  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Daslin said:


    edit: Fully expecting ban
    Good prediction. 
    XithJules
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