Classleads - January 2015

Addama

ANNOUNCE NEWS #4259
Date: 01/11/2015 at 17:24
From: Tecton, the Terraformer
To : Everyone
Subj: Artificing and Weaponmastery changes
...
We'll be opening up a special CLASSLEAD round this coming week, specifically aimed at the classes who have received major overhauls as part of recent changes:
* Alchemists
* Infernals
* Magi
* Paladins
* Runewardens
* Shamans

Discuss Classleads that your class (or your nemeses classes) needs in this year of our Lord 2015.

Also if you shit up this thread with a Priest or Forestal rant I will quit life IRL for real.

Tharvis

"Golem Destabilise Dissonance: breaks all magical shields protecting adventurer's in the room."

since magi offensive can be so easily stopped by the enemy simply shielding (hurrah for erode EQ time being practically equal to touch shield EQ time) I was pondering suggesting a similar "No shields for this duration" as you get for Metawake by destabilising lullaby

Addama

For Runewardens, I think the obvious place for change is in weapon empowerments for blunt weapons.  Getting empowerments for blunt weapons was a buff, and it was nice, but it wasn't a nice buff.  Bleeding is pointless and the chance of rebounding mitigation is likewise.  

Further, Pithakhan, Eihwaz and Nairat are either pointless or near enough to pointless for the two blunt weapon specs that we might as well not grant the fourth weapon rune at all and change the rebounding rune to Hugalaz.  That would at least save me some ink.

Morthif

Paladins. I know SnB is stronk now but still having to spend extra time dropping rites can get you behind a lot. Every time I ask about Fervour being updated its met with silence.

Darklyre

Can we allow runies to empower their shields (if SnB specced)? Strictly for convenience's sake. 

Tesha

Did Tecton edit the "Also if you shit up this thread with a Priest or Forestal rant I will quit life IRL for real." part in? :O

Morthif

He probably added Shaman to the list

Addama

Tesha said:

Did Tecton edit the "Also if you shit up this thread with a Priest or Forestal rant I will quit life IRL for real." part in? :O

No, that was me, he just changed the title from :HONK: CLASSLEADS 2015 :HONK:

Xinna

Magi:

Timeflux - Reduce duration to 20 or 25 seconds, but remove requirements for its use. Make it no longer comboable with balance attacks. Should just be a staple imo. Helps put magi more on par with other classes, with its slower balances, similar to priest's earth disrupt. Can hinder and initiate kill sequence more easily. Make timeflux also increase tumble time by 1 second per broken limb (in addition to the current increase for all classes). Magi is too easily stopped by tumble + piety/traps/gravehands/etc. This would help a lot.

Destabilise Grounding - Make it so magi can keep flying after this. Currently, if the magi doesn't have ring of flying, they fall to the ground, even though they can fly with aerial. Make aerial keep them in the air. This can be used to follow after tumble out of piety/etc, if not indoors. Has a 3 second or so base eq, so it's not too bad.

Alchemist:

Educe Copper - speed up to 2-2.2 second base eq, now that temper doesn't go through shield.

Educe Salt - speed up to 2 second base eq, OR make it temporary passive curing like Sun Tarot. Alchemist should have curing it can use more fluidly like other affliction classes have.

Aegoth

Right now magi are pretty boned against a lot of classes, specifically ones that have a ton of affliction pressure. Until magi get their prep done (which can take forever), they have scant precious few ways to hinder an opponent's offense. I still think transfixing is the way to go. All you need to do to balance easier tfixes would be to lower the writhing time in half (same as hangedman). Remove the blindness requirement and boom.. on demand hinderance that is on par with other classes, giving the magi breathing room

Jovolo

Hangedman is bad enough without giving it to Magi

Addama

On-demand transfix would also be absurd for raids (hangedman + transfix).

Aegoth

So make the two instackable. Instead of just outright dismissing an idea because you don't like it, try working with it and seeing how it could fit

Addama

Aegoth said:

So make the two instackable. Instead of just outright dismissing an idea because you don't like it, try working with it and seeing how it could fit

I'm not dismissing the idea because I don't like it, I'm dismissing the idea because it's OP and changing rope/transfix mechanics to make it work has implications outside of Magi/Tarot so it's a messy solution too.

There's better ways to introduce reliable hinder to Magi, you just don't realize it yet.

Amarillys

Addama said:

Aegoth said:

So make the two instackable. Instead of just outright dismissing an idea because you don't like it, try working with it and seeing how it could fit

I'm not dismissing the idea because I don't like it, I'm dismissing the idea because it's OP and changing rope/transfix mechanics to make it work has implications outside of Magi/Tarot so it's a messy solution too.

There's better ways to introduce reliable hinder to Magi, you just don't realize it yet.

So... what is it? I mean, do you realise it? It sounds like you do so... what is it?

Aegoth

Are there? Please enlighten me since you seem to be the one with these realisations and better solutions

Aegoth

As well, a magi with a hangedman equiv would still never outdo an occie. That's an absurd statement you make

Addama

Aegoth said:

As well, a magi with a hangedman equiv would still never outdo an occie. That's an absurd statement you make

Wait, what?  Who said anything about Occultists?

Ayoxele

Hangedman is up there for stupidest abilities in the game. God damnit wrong account but w/e

Addama

Also, I don't play a Magi and I have no idea what kind of abilities would mesh well with their offense, but somebody who does play Magi could probably come up with some ideas more creative than "push butan = hinder"

Aegoth

I suggest that instead of spouting arrogant, high-handed remarks like "you haven't realised it yet" without having ideas of your own, that perhaps you do not remark at all, or offer a more constructive reply that doesn't belittle the person you are replying to. I'm open to other solutions, yet no one has said anything but "lol op" wthout even explaining why. It's like i turned on Fox news for achaea. Anyway, another solution i have revoles around golem smash, but it'd be absurd to have it break two limbs in one go. Perhaps prevent a few destabilize vibes like plague from hitting the magi.. idk.

Xinna

I provided a solution already.

Aegoth

Not you Xinna. The other ppl

Addama

Aegoth said:

I suggest that instead of spouting arrogant, high-handed remarks like "you haven't realised it yet" without having ideas of your own, that perhaps you do not remark at all, or offer a more constructive reply that doesn't belittle the person you are replying to. I'm open to other solutions, yet no one has said anything but "lol op" wthout even explaining why. It's like i turned on Fox news for achaea. Anyway, another solution i have revoles around golem smash, but it'd be absurd to have it break two limbs in one go. Perhaps prevent a few destabilize vibes like plague from hitting the magi.. idk.

You're absolutely taking what I said personally, which I didn't intend.  It wasn't a good idea.  Changing Transfix mechanics affects other classes (notably Runewarden, Shaman and Totems in general) so it's a messy solution.  This is solid, reasonable and pertinent criticism, not an "arrogant, high-handed remark."

Working some hindrance into golems or vibes is a good idea, so there you go.

Wessux

See, this is why I got annoyed the other day at Addama. "I have no idea how this stuff works. Here is my opinion anyway."

Ernam

Magi has always had an over-the-top offense, both in constant DPS and arguably the most powerful spike capability in the game, and one of the best defenses in the game, to boot.

Giving them some of the best hindrance in the game would be absurd.

Just because it has "weak" hindrance doesn't mean it needs to be stronger.  It is, and always has been, intentionally weak.

And I'm going to cast my vote in with the tidal wave of people saying "wtf, another hangedman (that stacks with hangedman), what a terrible idea."

Vaehl

I can't wait for classleads.

It's fun watching people try to get their class buffed as much as possible, and deny all nerfs, including reasonable ones to try and keep their class OP.

Addama

Wessux said:

See, this is why I got annoyed the other day at Addama. "I have no idea how this stuff works. Here is my opinion anyway."

I'm willing to take a step back and say "I'm not a Magi, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it does need some hindrance."

But no-unblind Transfix?  Yikes.

Ernam

Magi already has hindrance.  Iced ground is so good that I payed 1000cr for it, on TWO characters.  I've also sold 6-8 shimmering icicles for 450-500cr, which people happily pay so that they can use it once an hour.

Magi have it for free, stack it with Block, stack that with dizziness, tremors, adduction, staffstrike leg breaks, retardation, and amnesia pets, LoS transfix, then bitch on forums about not having hindrance.

I've played magi extensively, it has more than enough hindrance.  If you can't kill people, it is because you aren't good at magi combat.  Subjective?  Yes.  True?  Also, yes.  I am truly sorry if anyone's feelings are hurt by this analysis.


I could make a much more logical argument for monk to have more hindrance, as they have considerably less hindrance (none) and also have considerably less DPS and damage spikes.  Yet, everyone would instantly realize how silly an idea that would be, because unlike magi, the general community is aware of exactly how good it is, even without hindrance.

Antonius

Jokes on you, Vaehl, I'm going to get my class nerfed. Will just be for a spec I'm not playing.

Aegoth

By hinderance, I definitely do not mean "This guy always leaves the room". That's another issue. What I mean (and what other magi agree with me on, even if we don't agree on the solution) is that we have very little in the way of hindering someone's offense, whether it be via affliction or by other means, so that we can get the person prepped.

Right now, against many classes, we have to fight tooth and nail to get our prep in while others have a rather jolly good time of their offense. We're trying to think of ways to give magi a way to hinder that onslaught of offense so we can get a chance to work in our prep by some miracle. Right now, we can't do that to a good degree.

Magi were super powerful with full vibes+ret, yes, and I think people are still having nightmares about that to be so up in arms about buffing new magi. It's new, it needs tweaks, JUST like how knights are getting all these unmitigated (and sometimes absurd) buffs.

I know you like to think you're some hot shot (you're not) who understands every class (you don't.. not even your current one), but I suggest that you don't poke your head into the beehive, Ernam. Subective? Yes. True? Also yes