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Best class without arties.

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  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Good thing retardation + passive vibes is no longer a thing, then.

    Hehe, a bittersweet memory is exactly what old vibes should be.

    It remains to be seen if Aeon + full vibes is going to be just as powerful, as my understanding is that as soon as retardation vibe is destabilised into Aeon affliction for everyone in the room, that at that moment, the rest of the vibes instantly come right back into full effect.

    So instead of retardation + full vibes, you end up with:

    retardation -> Everyone in the room has Aeon + full vibes

    I'm a bit confused at this stage, however, because I don't understand how aeon is supposed to be useful at all to magi combat (as it has no way of slow locking, or even sticking asthma, aside from maybe TF jabs?).  I am assuming that the Aeon feature was added in order to be used for something specific, but I'm at a loss as to what that is, so far.

    I'm tentatively happy to see retardation changes, but it's not hard to see this as a pretty massive upgrade, if used correctly.  For example:

    1. Full vibes
    2. embed retardation: (drop insomnia at any point before or after embedding ret)
    3. [optional] destabilise lullaby, drops metawake, can't re-def it for [unknown] seconds.
    4. mind paralyze or golem impurity paralysis (or just anticipate them being off herb balance from something else)
    5. golem impurity asthma (and optionally, also anorexia and/or stupidity)

      (this is where it gets good)

    6. destabilise retardation, ~1 second later, smoke elm (resolves 1 second after Aeon, curing Aeon before you even recover balance from destabilise
    7. Your opponent now has Aeon and asthma, you do not, and they're also in full vibes.
    8. golem hypnotise/delph jab/hourglass for a aeon+sleep lock (aka, victory)

    Pretty much the same thing as it used to be, but with some drawbacks and some serious improvements.

    The big drawback is that it all hinges on asthma now, which again, is pretty hard to stick for long as a magi.

    The big improvements are that the only counter to retardation/delph (metawake) is effectively gone ( but not sure for how long yet), and that the primary downside to retardation (that it actually affects the magi as well as their target) can be totally avoided, by instantly curing aeon, leaving the opponent still essentially in retardation, while the magi isn't, and is free to attack normally.


    However, asthma doesn't need to stick for long.  The entire process from destabilising retardation to having them in a one-sided metawake-proof aeon + sleep lock can take as little as whatever the balance cost of destabilise.

    That means that if the balance of destabilise is 2.5 seconds, the target would only have a 2.5 second window to eat asthma and smoke elm, which would require two full commands through aeon, plus latency.  With a 100ms ping, you'd have about 0.3 seconds of wiggle room, and using serverside, you'd be asleep before 'smoke elm' resolved even if you started 'eat asthma' instantly.

    This does assume a 2.5 second balance on destabilise though, which may be a bit longer (or could actually be shorter), and it also assumes that you don't cure asthma with fitness or a passive cure proc in the decently sized window (about 3-4 seconds) that still leaves enough time for elm, before you're visiting the dreamworld.



    I'm really interested in the numbers on some of this stuff, and would love some confirmation that Golem abilities all require and use full balance, such that they can't be combined with any other attacks (which would be a pretty serious design mistake).


  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    edit : I should not post before my first coffee
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,917 Achaean staff
    Impurity and hypnotise cannot be combined. The other abilities can mostly be combined with balance attacks (its based around the idea of comboing staffstrike and golem attacks).
    Tharvis
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Makarios said:
    Impurity and hypnotise cannot be combined. The other abilities can mostly be combined with balance attacks (its based around the idea of comboing staffstrike and golem attacks).
    So magi can simultaneously hourglass+hypnotise?  That's ... very overpowered.  Or did you mean limb balance only (in which case, you could delph jab + hypnotise).

  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ernam said:
    Makarios said:
    Impurity and hypnotise cannot be combined. The other abilities can mostly be combined with balance attacks (its based around the idea of comboing staffstrike and golem attacks).
    So magi can simultaneously hourglass+hypnotise?  That's ... very overpowered.  Or did you mean limb balance only (in which case, you could delph jab + hypnotise).

    @Ernam, you misunderstand him. Impurity and Hypnotise cannot be combined with anything else in a combo.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tharvis said:
    Ernam said:
    Makarios said:
    Impurity and hypnotise cannot be combined. The other abilities can mostly be combined with balance attacks (its based around the idea of comboing staffstrike and golem attacks).
    So magi can simultaneously hourglass+hypnotise?  That's ... very overpowered.  Or did you mean limb balance only (in which case, you could delph jab + hypnotise).

    @Ernam, you misunderstand him. Impurity and Hypnotise cannot be combined with anything else in a combo.
    further clarification, hypnotize and impurity seem to be TrueEquilibrium, making it impossible to use any balance-using abilities while off equilibrium for them, or making it impossible to use them while off-balance
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Excellent.
    Tharvis
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