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How to Become a Top Tier Combatant

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  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Isn't this a thread of how to be a top tier combatant? not a why is alchemist op?

    1. Learn what all of your class abilities do, how they work together and how you can use them to achieve your goals.
    2. Learn every other class so you know what to expect while your fighting. and as of number 1. how to use your abilities to prevent dying to the other classes.
    3. Coding is extremely important, because the human brain (mine at least) can't handle the massive amount of text information that comes in at the same time having a good offensive and defensive setup is important.
    4. Experience, practice makes perfect. the more you combat the more often you'll understand how things work.
    5. In my personal opinion you can learn something from every fight. but fighting people who are really weak vs fighting strong people makes a difference, If you don't have to try vs someone then your going to get rusty when you actually do have to try.

    Would say those are the basic steps. 

    Oh and Artifacts. make a difference. they might not in -every- situation. but none the less they make a difference. 


    Also just for the record. figure out why you died everytime you did and think about how you could have prevented it. If you for instance die to brokenstar. don't say FUCKING OP ASS BLADEMASTER BULLSHIT, think to your self how could I overcome that and -not die- asking others for help when your stuck is also always useful.

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    And nevermind I thought Vaehl's comment was the second comment and it was a newbie asking a question. This is why you don't drink and forum. 

    WessuxBadeEld
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited November 2014
    @Caladbolg
    Brokenstar is overpowered.  A six-limb break setup, with hamstring, is completely unavoidable death, without fast-travel.  The only "counter" to it is to increase your characters dodging to the point where 6-limb preps are more or less impossible, and turtle if you get close to having all limbs prepped.

    It's important to note that the massive cries about how hard it is to prep are pretty misguided.  You can reset the 3 minute timer on all six limbs by landing three slashes.  Combine this with four incredibly easy to use methods to ignore parrying (hitting other limb, airfist, double arm breaks, void/para) and you have yourself a class that can basically Puppet Obliterate you if you can't kill them before they get you prepped.

    Add to the mix that BM (as previously discussed) can basically plaugh at every form of momentum in the game, without losing their prep, and can easily turtle long enough to reset their own limbs against Knights, without losing their prep, and what you get is a class that is dramatically OP.

    The other thing worth mentioning is that if you have low mana going into something as insanely simple as head/torso, leg/leg quad break setup (or in many cases, only a double leg break), you're just as screwed.  The "good" BMs out there are mindful of their target's mana, and use Hamstring in conjunction with Striking affliction pressure to drain huge amounts of mana before initiating the kill setup.  Also, unlike every other prep-based class in the game, you can't tumble away from BMs, using hindrance like walls, gravehands, etc, because 1) tumbling is a huge balance cost and results in getting impaled a second time and 2)  they can evade through hindrance and continue the kill sequence unhindered.

    Sorry for the derail, but since pretty much everyone already agrees that Alchemist is currently a little overpowered, I thought I'd chuck this into the mix.

    As far as I'm concerned, BM is, by far, the best class in the game.  It (contrary to what some might say) is a massive defensive powerhouse, can bypass/ignore almost every kill strategy in the game, has incredible mobility, THREE class-based active cures, and some of the best single-combat affliction pressure in existence.  It also has access to some pretty ridiculous DPS with high str and level 3 band, that combined with hamstring, can actually kill about 2/3s of the playerbase without using a single limb break or affliction.

    / derail
  • CynderCynder Where the Red Pandas roam.Member Posts: 132 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I just stick clusmy on a BM and laugh in their faces. 
    NemutaurAtalkezWessux
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Yeah, yeah. Every class is OP. That's why they're mostly balanced!

    Just need to nerf some stupid defenses like shackle/balloon, angel sacrifice, evade, numb, and bedevil fullheal.

    Atalkez
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Terra said:

    Yeah, yeah. Every class is OP. That's why they're mostly balanced!

    Just need to nerf some stupid defenses like shackle/balloon, angel sacrifice, evade, numb, and bedevil fullheal.


    Honestly would rather have Fitness than the entire Healing skillset.  Kind of getting tired of arguing with people about silly claims like active bedevil being a "fullheal", especially when they know damn well that it isn't.  I can't even count how many times I've used Bedevil and had it do next to nothing, at all.

    Affliction classes just hate it because it isn't trackable by tracking systems, so they actually have to think and fight without knowing exactly what their opponent has at all times.  This is a pain in the ass, but it's a valid part of class balance.  In truth, priest doesn't have that good passive healing (relative to other passives), and despite what the mob mentality folks constantly try to push, priest's active curing kindof sucks now, to the point that I literally only use it for asthma, ever, at the expense of 4 seconds of eq loss, which would almost certainly be better used for something else (like just shielding, which is 1.5 seconds eq loss).

    Speaking for myself, I can absolutely say that I thought priest healing was OP until I played priest.  Having seen what the multitude of nerfs to priest healing has resulted in, I can honestly say that it's easily in the "middle" of the affliction healing spectrum.  Magi, Sylvan, Blademaster, Serpent are all much better, and Monk, Knight, Bard, Occultist, Dragon all have much better active or passive healing.

    As for Numb - yes, it's retarded.  Evade... just needs a few affs to affect it, I think.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nothing is better than Priest passive + active. 

    Bedevil is insane.

    Sacrifice is a joke. 

    But who needs those unnecessary cureall abilities when you have snipe curing + passive healing. I keep up just fine with just regular eating, smoking and applying + shield. I have Fool and now Sun. Don't need.

    Blademasters are offensive and defensive powerhouses, but I'm Jester. Everything dies indiscriminately. 
    image
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    Blademasters are offensive and defensive powerhouses, but I'm Mizik. Everything dies indiscriminately. 
    fixed maybe
    Amarillys
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Nim said:
    Mizik said:
    Blademasters are offensive and defensive powerhouses, but I'm Mizik. Everything dies indiscriminately. 
    fixed maybe

    I haven't had a problem vs Mizik as 4 classes now*, but every single time I win is a "fluke"  :'(.

    Except for serp Mizik forcing absolve, then beheading.   :s
  • CynderCynder Where the Red Pandas roam.Member Posts: 132 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I've seen logs of you dying to him and saying a BS excuse, so you're both even I guess.
    ElphabaNemutaurShirszae
  • CynderCynder Where the Red Pandas roam.Member Posts: 132 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm just making sarcastic remarks because I'm fully taking advantage of this class and hoping that it doesn't tell its parents and take away my privileges of said actions being taken away then I have to go Serpent or something.
    Shh
    Shirszae
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Cynder said:
    I've seen logs of you dying to him and saying a BS excuse, so you're both even I guess.

    Mizik and I both seem to agree that at high-end combat, between well-balanced classes, a fight can pretty much be decided by a very small mistake (missing recklessness, allowing a single limb break during blackout, missing a forced command, using a tree/active cure too early, etc.).  Sure, I (like pretty much everyone else, at some point in their life) has made an excuse for losing a fight, but I take my own advice, and try to never die to the same mistake twice.

    That said, losing a fight over "broken" combat mechanics (evade/prep) isn't an "excuse" - however Mizik hasn't (to my knowledge, and/or recently) been a serious perpetrator of this type of thing (although as a BM he does inherently ignore the one and only form of hindrance available to priest, so killing him can be pretty much impossible unless he goes Bushido and refuses to run).

  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ernam said:
    You can reset the 3 minute timer on all six limbs by landing three slashes.
    Actually no.

    As pointed out in several other threads in the past few days, the off-slashes of BM don't reset the timer.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Bypassing parry is a blademaster is pretty hilariously easy though, it just means it would require six slashes instead of three. Knights should be the only limb-prep class that have any issue with the limb damage timer.
    ErnamAradorWessux
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Tael said:
    As pointed out in several other threads in the past few days, the off-slashes of BM don't reset the timer.

    I actually did not know this at all, although @Jovolo's point stands.

  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Ernam said:


    Honestly would rather have Fitness than the entire Healing skillset.  Kind of getting tired of arguing with people about silly claims like active bedevil being a "fullheal", especially when they know damn well that it isn't.  I can't even count how many times I've used Bedevil and had it do next to nothing, at all.

    I am unsure why you always say things like this. As far as most of us are aware, bedevil heals all afflictions. This is how it has always been as far as I can remember. This is how it has been everytime I have used it on my priest alt. This is how it has been everytime I have tested it on the test server. You'll have to post a log of it -not- healing all afflictions if you want us to "know damn well it isn't." Heh.

    Maybe it was silent nerfed recently. Maybe you just don't know your own abilities (kinda like you thought angel sacrifice didn't heal things like limb damage, despite being told several times that it did). Instead of responding with hostility, you could simply test the abilities yourself, and then either prove that you are correct, or acknowledge that you are wrong.

  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Ernam said:
    @Caladbolg
    Brokenstar is overpowered.  A six-limb break setup, with hamstring, is completely unavoidable death, without fast-travel. 
    The two hilarious things about this:

    1) If you're willing and able to prep all six limbs on an opponent - i.e., they're unable to kill you before you can prep all six limbs and none reset - you deserve that fucking kill.
    2) Even if you do prep all six limbs on said opponent and they, for all intents and purposes, deserve to die, they can still SAY RIDE HOME or just leave the room and wait for the limbs to reset.

    tl;dr limb prep is dumb
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Addama said:
    Ernam said:
    @Caladbolg
    Brokenstar is overpowered.  A six-limb break setup, with hamstring, is completely unavoidable death, without fast-travel. 
    The two hilarious things about this:

    1) If you're willing and able to prep all six limbs on an opponent - i.e., they're unable to kill you before you can prep all six limbs and none reset - you deserve that fucking kill.
    2) Even if you do prep all six limbs on said opponent and they, for all intents and purposes, deserve to die, they can still SAY RIDE HOME or just leave the room and wait for the limbs to reset.

    tl;dr limb prep is dumb
    Blademaster basically ignores parry and is fast to prep. Prepping six limbs is easy. He also mentioned hamstring making it hard to just leave the room. And he also said "unless you can fast travel", so yes if you're a runewarden you can raido out. 

    Stop posting when you don't understand what's happening and/or can't read. 

    Side note for a lot of people. I don't agree it's 100% unavoidable. There are very few setups that you can't escape from in this game. It's not setup and kill it's setup and hope they don't dodge it. 
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    AradorAtalkez
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    All you have to do is fly at the right time and 6 limb prep is 100% wasted.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Addama
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    All you have to do is fly at the right time and 6 limb prep is 100% wasted.
    That's my point.  Prepping six limbs, whatever class you might be, takes awhile, it can be screwed up pretty easily, and all your opponent has to do is leave.  I wouldn't blame anybody for running from me if they knew I had six limbs prepped, staying would be incredibly stupid.

    So yeah, if a BM manages to fulfill a six-limb prep and you don't leave the room, you are almost certainly going to die.  But this is like complaining that an opponent who is six seconds into a Cleave is almost 100% going to kill you. 
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can't you high leap and bring em down? Does knees work to prone out of flight? 

    ErnamAtalkez
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes but if you fly on head/torso I can leap to break legs+prone but no arms so no salve difference. If I break arms, your still flying and I land. Either way you negate the setup for bstar because you throw the timing off. Opens up other options though


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Wessux said:
    Addama said:
    Ernam said:
    @Caladbolg
    Brokenstar is overpowered.  A six-limb break setup, with hamstring, is completely unavoidable death, without fast-travel. 
    The two hilarious things about this:

    1) If you're willing and able to prep all six limbs on an opponent - i.e., they're unable to kill you before you can prep all six limbs and none reset - you deserve that fucking kill.
    2) Even if you do prep all six limbs on said opponent and they, for all intents and purposes, deserve to die, they can still SAY RIDE HOME or just leave the room and wait for the limbs to reset.

    tl;dr limb prep is dumb
    Blademaster basically ignores parry and is fast to prep. Prepping six limbs is easy. He also mentioned hamstring making it hard to just leave the room. And he also said "unless you can fast travel", so yes if you're a runewarden you can raido out. 

    Stop posting when you don't understand what's happening and/or can't read. 

    Side note for a lot of people. I don't agree it's 100% unavoidable. There are very few setups that you can't escape from in this game. It's not setup and kill it's setup and hope they don't dodge it. 


    Telling people to "stop posting" is always a pretty jerkish way to respond to comments you don't agree with. You aren't the master of combat, yourself.

    Not disagreeing with the last paragraph, but the first part of your post was just rude. Particularly since whether someone -should- die when 6 limbs are prepped is an opinion, not a factual statement.

    Tael
  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    You know, I think I just realized the 100% sure way to become a top-tier combatant.

    Bribe @Tecton with moonshine to create a bunch of Runewarden Runes that go together in a sentence that reads "top-tier combatant" and have the Runie sketch them on your forehead. Be a top-tier combatant until runes poof. Find another Runie, rinse, lather, repeat.

    That way nobody's left out except those poor hopeless souls who don't have a kindly Runie friend.

    ...this is what happens when you let a non-comm near something like this.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    describe self + and is the best there ever was.
    YaeTaelTibitha
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,819 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nim said:
    describe self + and is the best there ever was.
     

    PayneKadin
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Yes but if you fly on head/torso I can leap to break legs+prone but no arms so no salve difference. If I break arms, your still flying and I land. Either way you negate the setup for bstar because you throw the timing off. Opens up other options though
    Can do arms first, which prevent movement in flight.

    Arms / fly
    High leap / centre
    Legs/prone
    Land/impale
    image
    Atalkez
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And if they are flying with a mount, arms/feet will stop them remounting. If they have a ring, maybe go for a silent torso break so you don't spook them, with arms/sternum. Then legs/prone. 

    I get that you want to break the legs right after they apply, but can perhaps use fire infusions to help with that as many prio renewal over reconstructive.

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,917 Achaean staff
    Bedevil does cure all (actively cureable) afflictions. This may or not be a bug (hard to say what the original intention was with such an old ability), but it is the case at the moment. It does not transfer all afflictions, however.
    DalranNemutaurTerraHalos
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