How to Become a Top Tier Combatant

Vaehl

Go Alchemist.

Valaria

normally, i want to laugh.. but for some reason I don't.

Vaehl

Yeah, alchemist is beyond humorous.

Edit: Pun not intended.

Edit2: Okay I admit it was 100% intentional.

Ernam

Damn, I thought the thread was going to be:

Go serpent, buy Lupine bow.

(or  Go Magi, buy Torc)



But yeah, alchemist is totally insane.  Only way I've found to beat them is hit & run with an ability that bypasses homonculus block, as 4 different classes now.

Actually died to Proficy once in a rampage doing absolutely nothing but spamming Healing & active Bedevil with passive healing going, and trying to gtfo, and failing for about 15 seconds straight, before dying.

If I was one of the 3-4 classes that can't get past homonc block*, I think I'd straight up refuse to fight them, at all.  If you get locked in the room with an alchemist, you're pretty much dead.

*One of which is alchemist, which means all you have to do is be better at combat.

Jovolo

Priest is pretty awesome against Alchemist. I saw a couple "small" priests beat Proficy recently. I think every momentum class not serp/priest gets destroyed by them. Blademaster wrecks everything. Knights get out-momentum'd and can't evade homoblock. I cba to continue this list but yea alchemist op

Ernam

Knight homonc bypasses:

Runwarden: Raido, wunjo/nairat/tumble
Paladin: Illuminate, piety/tumble
Infernal blackwind, gravehands/tumble

Priest is abou 50/50 with alchemist.  Our early affliction pressure is purely RNG, whereas alchemist stuff is pretty consistent (controlled).  I find that about half the time I have to run early on, and the other half I manage to out-tempo the insane aff pressure.  It usually comes down to alchs having like 8-10 affs (counting disrupts) right around the time I get inundated and either barely survive, or die.

I would sincerely doubt I would have trouble as serpent.  (artied) Serp momentum is way faster than alch, and they can obviously evade at pretty much any time, since alch has virtually literally nothing that stops it.

Jovolo

I would pose that the time taken to raze, dsl, dsl and then tumble is enough for an alchemist to at least RNG lock. Tumble = no fitness for those 4 seconds. Best defence is an offence vs alch. Unless you're BM. Fuck BM.

I also think it wouldn't be viable to prep as a knight nowdays with raze, dsl, dsl, tumble. Much less raze, dsl, tumble. They kinda need momentum to prep. Which is awesome!

Ernam

Jovolo said:

I would pose that the time taken to raze, dsl, dsl and then tumble is enough for an alchemist to at least RNG lock. Tumble = no fitness for those 4 seconds. Best defence is an offence vs alch. Unless you're BM. Fuck BM.

(edit: I agree)

If you're a BM, your best defence against everything is your offense.

Your second best strategy is to use one of your 18 abilities that reset all of your opponents' momentum*.  

*(Evade, hamstring, leap, highleap, phoenix, immunity, health trans, mana trans, void/para/impale, double arm/leg breaks, balanceslash, etc.)

Wessux

Vaehl said:

Go Alchemist.

You win. I lost it when I read this. 10/10 would laugh again.

Evvi

Opened this after spending 2hrs trying to beat an alchie. Thank you for providing relief in my grief.

Mizik

Just wait til transmutation is gone. 

Terra

Truewrack should probably be 3 seconds base, 2.7 with nimble. Would make alchemist's affliction rate more comparable to other classes (1 aff per .9 seconds), eliminate the EZ-mode no prep RNG lock, and eliminate the guaranteed phlegmatic inundate truelock, while still leaving open ample methods of killing (and truelocking, with phlegmatic).

Alch does need an evade counter, though, imo.

Priest v. alch is easy, since priest has as crazy of affliction power as alch does.

Bard v. alch isn't bad, but if you got jumped without harms, you're fighting without harms cause gl getting them up without dying. And if the alch gets good RNG, and knows how to use copper, gg.

Constant pressure is a necessity against alch, if you don't have evade (or something comparable).

Dunn

CWHO

scan for doll travel targets

see none

meh;sit;emote stretches out and begins to tan.

Stuneree

I'm comfortable with playing a turtley-defensive-bitch against a class that gives afflictions+humours.

Ernam

Stuneree said:

I'm comfortable with playing a turtley-defensive-bitch against a class that gives afflictions+humours.

For sure - it's pretty much no-holds-barred against alch.  Without some sort of fast-travel / evasion method, most classes don't stand a chance.


@Dunn

Bounty#    Target          Reason                    Claimed   Reward
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
3          Jacintha        Raiding the Dawnspear          N    3cr
5          Dunn            Raiding the Dawnspear          N    3cr Don't Bother
12         Akia            Raiding the Dawnspear          N    20000gp
15         Kadin           Raiding the Dawnspear          N    15000gp

Aalm

My only advice to Mhaldor and Ashtan raiding Targ:

If you're up against @Achilles , SNIPE THE HEEL. Still won't save you, but it's your only chance.  

Exelethril

Terra said:

Truewrack should probably be 3 seconds base, 2.7 with nimble. Would make alchemist's affliction rate more comparable to other classes (1 aff per .9 seconds), eliminate the EZ-mode no prep RNG lock, and eliminate the guaranteed phlegmatic inundate truelock, while still leaving open ample methods of killing (and truelocking, with phlegmatic).

Alch does need an evade counter, though, imo.

Priest v. alch is easy, since priest has as crazy of affliction power as alch does.

Bard v. alch isn't bad, but if you got jumped without harms, you're fighting without harms cause gl getting them up without dying. And if the alch gets good RNG, and knows how to use copper, gg.

Constant pressure is a necessity against alch, if you don't have evade (or something comparable).

How do you pressure alch as a physical dps class when they can kelp stack quickly with clumsiness? Also homonculus bite, such rng, very op  

Cynder

Slow prep the fuck out of them. It's how most people have gotten me to date.
Just lame them, do whatever it takes as you rotate slowly. Spam that shield tattoo, tumble behind gulwar(?)stonewall, just remember you have the advantage of not needing momentum. Every time you have to make us start fresh it's in your favor, until we get ahead in herb balance it becomes ours. No reason for you to stay in the room after 4~5 tempers. 

That's just my 2 cents of how I've been beaten against physical classes.

Addama

Yeah, if you want to know how to win 90% of your fights as Runewarden, just don't rush your prep.  Take your time, use Gular, use your totem, shield/tumble/web, wunjo/nairat.

I say 90% because decent Priests have triggers to cancel my tumble by forcing a move action, and trying to walk out of a room you've Gular'd yourself into is the worst way to realize you're boned.

Cooper

Good luck prepping 2 limbs + torso on an alchemist without the damage resetting.

Terra

Eh. How many people can stay in the room full offense against a runewarden's thurisaz stack?

Pressure! Runie f-in hurts.

Addama

Terra said:

Eh. How many people can stay in the room full offense against a runewarden's thurisaz stack?

Pressure! Runie f-in hurts.

Please get the indoor flooded room in the Gauntlet removed, I will happily do all the forging you ever want for you.

Cooper

Terra said:

Eh. How many people can stay in the room full offense against a runewarden's thurisaz stack?

Pressure! Runie f-in hurts.

Alchemist who goes full hinder while the stack is going off shouldn't have much trouble.

Exelethril

Yeah, it's like paralyze/clumsiness/paralyze, oh crap, asthma is stuck. Tumbling takes four seconds-ish, mountjump is < 1 second. Homonculus blocks fly.

I sort of have a rough idea how to beat alchie but it's just so much effort with the tumbling/running/sketching/unenemying, 3 minute reset while avoiding the bread and butter lock

Mizik

Can Alchs be epseth/epteth blasted? 

Dunn

with nairat blade procs, maybe. They can get two rounds of heals off though. Apply/tree, apply/whatevertheftheiractivehealiscalled.

Nemutaur

Dunn said:

with nairat blade procs, maybe. They can get two rounds of heals off though. Apply/tree, apply/whatevertheftheiractivehealiscalled.

Dunn

Terra

Iirc, they only need one arm to attack, as well, so have to stick double epteth.

You have raido, though. Easy! Or could maybe spam curare/kalmia and gecko/monkshood til you can leave.

Aerek

In my testing with that, Monkshood only turns the homunculus to attack the owner if the homunculus actually attacks while they have disloyalty, and the homunculus only attacks every 10 seconds or so. If you're to the point where you need to gtfo, you can't stand around spamming curare/kalmia curare/monkshood (through the para/clumsy spam, mind you) waiting for the homunculus ticks to line up right. It's one of those theoretical possibilities that I've never gotten to work well in practice. If Monkshood worked more consistently, turning the homunculus against the Alchemist even between attacks, then that would be something, though you still have to get 3 consecutive attacks through the paralysis/clumsiness somehow.

Even tumbling over walls and into pre-sketched wunjo/nairat isn't as effective as it sounds, because the homunculus keeps its target, so the Alchemist just needs to leap/mountjump into the new room and summon homunculus before you get balance back and you're stuck again, even if they are transfixed. You have time to cure one or two affs/fluids but not enough to get back into the fight.

When Raido is the only reliable way to avoid dying to a class, (and it's the only thing that's really worked for me) then that class might be a touch on the strong side.

Edit: and yeah, Tempering only takes 1 arm, so even epteth spam doesn't particularly bother them.

Caladbolg

Isn't this a thread of how to be a top tier combatant? not a why is alchemist op?

1. Learn what all of your class abilities do, how they work together and how you can use them to achieve your goals.
2. Learn every other class so you know what to expect while your fighting. and as of number 1. how to use your abilities to prevent dying to the other classes.
3. Coding is extremely important, because the human brain (mine at least) can't handle the massive amount of text information that comes in at the same time having a good offensive and defensive setup is important.
4. Experience, practice makes perfect. the more you combat the more often you'll understand how things work.
5. In my personal opinion you can learn something from every fight. but fighting people who are really weak vs fighting strong people makes a difference, If you don't have to try vs someone then your going to get rusty when you actually do have to try.

Would say those are the basic steps. 

Oh and Artifacts. make a difference. they might not in -every- situation. but none the less they make a difference. 


Also just for the record. figure out why you died everytime you did and think about how you could have prevented it. If you for instance die to brokenstar. don't say FUCKING OP ASS BLADEMASTER BULLSHIT, think to your self how could I overcome that and -not die- asking others for help when your stuck is also always useful.