Spiritlore

Amarillys

Why has this not been a posted thing yet!? Someone tell me everything! I want to knooooooooooooooooow!!!

(Been waiting for this for a bit to see if I want to switch over.)

@Bluef, you're basically the only Shaman I've ever heard of, is it awesome? Does it fit the feel of the class for you?

Tell me tell me tell me! I'm soooo excited. 

Sena

To get you started:
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/211990/#Comment_211990
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/211996/#Comment_211996

I think it looks awesome.

Addama

So now Shaman can do a "circle" around a totem - does this act as an extra transfix?  Or like Piety?

Amarillys

Oh my god soooooooooo awesome! Shaman just got moved up the list! That's so amazing. It looks super fun. 

Malorn

Holy.

A practical use for black ink.

I.

I might have to actually stock it. *Sob*

Bluef

@Amarillys‌

Spiritlore is a much better fit for shaman than runelore ever was, even though Phineus and Tithian are brothers. Spiritlore has a ton of potential. So much that it's a little hard to wrap one's mind around the best path toward anything at the moment because of the awesome flexibility.

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

Amarillys

Hopefully enough combat utility will be added to the new skillsets coming out that the utility of spiritlore will not be so overwhelmed with PKers since I know a lot of Shamans are pretty into the RP of it. It's one of the reasons it's so interesting to me as a class. So much promise for fun. ^_^

Trey

Bluef said:

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

I think the fallacy here is that your RP potential can somehow be diluted by someone who isn't as strong/interested of a roleplayer as other people. You get what you put into it, plain and simple.

Bluef

Trey said:

Bluef said:

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

I think the fallacy here is that your RP potential can somehow be diluted by someone who isn't as strong/interested of a roleplayer as other people. You get what you put into it, plain and simple.

There isn't a flaw in the logic of the argument that too many short order chefs familiar with nothing more than making burgers and onion rings may  have difficulty adding palatable cuisine to a formal French dinner service. For example, I've seen this so many times today:

(Clan): Someone says, "Ooh, spiritlore."

(Clan): Someoneelse says, "Yeah, looks sick."
(Clan): Someoneelse says, "Gonna get my K:D ratio up!"
(Clan): Someone says, "Yeah, we're petitioning to have it included in <Cityname> classes now."

Classes as a whole may not be the main focus of RP anymore though - that's what cities are for now, especially with multiclass on the horizon.

That said, whoever put together the spiritlore event did an amazing job. It was all about class-specific RP (but most of the shamans who participated are shamans who actively RP being shamans, not just using the class to get kills). The event rivaled the renewal of runelore event in its awesomeness. 

Trey

Bluef said:

Trey said:

Bluef said:

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

I think the fallacy here is that your RP potential can somehow be diluted by someone who isn't as strong/interested of a roleplayer as other people. You get what you put into it, plain and simple.

There isn't a flaw in the logic of the argument that too many short order chefs familiar with nothing more than making burgers and onion rings may  have difficulty adding palatable cuisine to a formal French dinner service.

To continue your analogy, stop eating at McDonalds!

Bade

I hope class specific rp won't disappear with multiclass, I am semiplaning to become a shaman at that point to get involved with shaman rp.

Addama

Bade said:

I hope class specific rp won't disappear with multiclass, I am semiplaning to become a shaman at that point to get involved with shaman rp.

This is a difficult prospect, as there are viable examples of multiclassing two classes with a history of antagonism, like Jesters and Occultists. 

All I'd recommend is that if RP is important to you, choose two classes that don't require you to roleplay a schizophrenic with split personalities.  Personally, I think I'm going Bard or Blademaster in addition to Runewarden.

Tael

Bluef said:

Trey said:

Bluef said:

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

I think the fallacy here is that your RP potential can somehow be diluted by someone who isn't as strong/interested of a roleplayer as other people. You get what you put into it, plain and simple.

There isn't a flaw in the logic of the argument that too many short order chefs familiar with nothing more than making burgers and onion rings may  have difficulty adding palatable cuisine to a formal French dinner service.

While there isn't a flaw in that argument, I think there is perhaps a flaw in its application here - specifically that you're presuming that the short order chefs are at the formal French dinner service in the first place. The lolcombatants largely aren't going to join RP-specific orgs. Are they going to join your cities? Sure. But that doesn't dilute anything. Combatant shaman in your city doesn't do anything to prevent you from carrying out your shaman RP. They might even join your houses, though that seems less likely given the general Renaissance emphasis on providing separate houses for different playstyles, but that too does almost nothing to hurt your RP.

When you have rituals or discussions or RP that those combatants wouldn't fit into, they're just not going to be there. They don't want to be a part of it any more than you want them to be a part of it. To the extent that it's a problem at all, it's a problem that is born of class-specific orgs that pair combatants who aren't interested in RP together with people who are interested in RP. As we move away from that, this problem just largely evaporates.

Bluef

Tael said:

Bluef said:

Trey said:

Bluef said:

I may be most interested to see how cities react to the communing with spirits of various factions (Occultist, Apostate, Priest) or whether so many people interested in the combat utility change into the class that it's RP is weakened.

I think the fallacy here is that your RP potential can somehow be diluted by someone who isn't as strong/interested of a roleplayer as other people. You get what you put into it, plain and simple.

There isn't a flaw in the logic of the argument that too many short order chefs familiar with nothing more than making burgers and onion rings may  have difficulty adding palatable cuisine to a formal French dinner service.

While there isn't a flaw in that argument, I think there is perhaps a flaw in its application here - specifically that you're presuming that the short order chefs are at the formal French dinner service in the first place. The lolcombatants largely aren't going to join RP-specific orgs. Are they going to join your cities? Sure. But that doesn't dilute anything. Combatant shaman in your city doesn't do anything to prevent you from carrying out your shaman RP. They might even join your houses, though that seems less likely given the general Renaissance emphasis on providing separate houses for different playstyles, but that too does almost nothing to hurt your RP.

When you have rituals or discussions or RP that those combatants wouldn't fit into, they're just not going to be there. They don't want to be a part of it any more than you want them to be a part of it. To the extent that it's a problem at all, it's a problem that is born of class-specific orgs that pair combatants who aren't interested in RP together with people who are interested in RP. As we move away from that, this problem just largely evaporates.

There isn't a flaw in the premise of my argument. You are suggesting that hey I can still RP so everything should be GREAT! But individual RP is not the same as city, House or even class RP. When a bunch of lolcombatants jump into a class, any class, the class as a whole suffers for it because it becomes known by their actions, their lack of RP cohesion, etc. 

Ernam

A game centered around PVP suffers when people change a class in order to PVP?

You should probably realize that aside from Devo/Necro users, "Class RP" died with guilds.

Shirszae

Not sure I agree to that. There are many famous combatants that regularly jump classes and even though the class they currently are widely circulates both ICLY and OCCLY, I don't think very many people, if any, strictly associates the class they currently are with them. Perhaps this is just me, but I've never, ever, heard of someone say, "W class sucks, because X, Y, and Z ruined its RP." 

Bluef

Ernam said:

A game centered around PVP suffers when people change a class in order to PVP?

You should probably realize that aside from Devo/Necro users, "Class RP" died with guilds.

Yeah, that's why we had a 5-hour long event last night focused solely on the future of shamans and their connection to the spirits.

Class RP is dead, yo. Long live Class RP! 

Ernam

What I meant to say is that the concept of being "required" to participate in it died with Guilds.  Nobody has to get into Shaman mysticism and history if they don't want to, and that is fine.  Would the game be better if everyone did?  Probably, but it'd also be annoying and forced.  This is arguably the main reason Guilds were replaced with Houses.

Bluef

Houses replaced Guilds so that there could be more open access to class abilities. It was the era of Autoclass. It had nothing to do with roleplay being foisted on people in organizations. 

Ernam

Interesting opinion.

Bade

Addama said:

Bade said:

I hope class specific rp won't disappear with multiclass, I am semiplaning to become a shaman at that point to get involved with shaman rp.

This is a difficult prospect, as there are viable examples of multiclassing two classes with a history of antagonism, like Jesters and Occultists. 

All I'd recommend is that if RP is important to you, choose two classes that don't require you to roleplay a schizophrenic with split personalities.  Personally, I think I'm going Bard or Blademaster in addition to Runewarden.

yeah I'm not really worried about Bade's rp, I am still new only been back a month but while he's a Serpent and all the things that go with that, he is also a religious scholar and intrigued by spirit's and their realm, that's why I hope Shaman rp doesn't suffer, I want him to get involved with it. He's trying now but there is little he can do not being in a class it seems for now but I'm working on that.

Addama

Since Serpents don't seem very tied to spiritual/religious RP, I don't think it's outrageous to multiclass Serpent/Shaman.  The only problem I'd foresee is that your PVP might suffer, since Serpents are Dex-based and Shaman more Con/Int based.

Ernam

Ohhhhhhhhhh.

Now I understand why Ashtan (aka the ACC, who designed/endorsed the changes) flocked to Shaman.

Ureel

Ernam said:

What I meant to say is that the concept of being "required" to participate in it died with Guilds.  Nobody has to get into Shaman mysticism and history if they don't want to, and that is fine.  Would the game be better if everyone did?  Probably, but it'd also be annoying and forced.  This is arguably the main reason Guilds were replaced with Houses.

Not to change the subject, but why in the world was this post flagged? There are no personal attacks in it. Disagree buttons exist for a reason...

Dunn

Actually, we had absolutely no creative input on spiritlore.

The entirety of the ACC, that is. We just tested it. Nice call, tho.

Ernam

@Ureel

Confucious says:  A broken clock is right, twice a day.

Gotta flag'em all.

Dunn said:

Actually, we had absolutely no creative input on spiritlore.

The entirety of the ACC, that is. We just tested it. Nice call, tho.

Oh.  Well, in that case, I can't see how premeir access to testing/class information could have possibly been a factor in the mass wave of class-changes.

Also cute that for no conceivable reason, Shamans were given another fast-travel ability.

Xith

Well anyway, I think it's awesome.
As soon as I saw the 5 bound spirts + invoke formula I was like "OMG they used Spellweaving!" I gotta say it fits Shaman better than a battlemage.

Didn't expect the spiritual channeling of other classes but I gotta say it's pretty cool. Reminds me of Shang Tsung. XD



So I have some questions about function, if any shamans can answer/experiment.

1. Can Spiritwalking souls be seen by anyone? Lifevision or otherwise?
 - already checked and they cannot enter closed doors, wise choice
2. Coagulation requires a bleeding target to add an extra affliction?
3. Bloodlet consumes blood-based afflictions to add an amount of bleeding?
- the combo of those two is clever
4. How far away does Aelkesh projection move you?
5. Does attuning to Maligus 'drain' the health/mana or just damage the target?
6. Can the curse-appendable invocations be used with blight?
7. How does relapsing work again? And can shamans choose which affliction to relapse even if it's not the last 'venom' used?
8. How long do the ICEFORT walls last?
- @Garden when do Magi get Icefort?  
9. Attune to Arcanor only protects from fire/cold/electric and not magic, right?
10. Is there a distance limitation on Wayfare?
11. How many afflictions does Purification cure?
12. For tribal totems, how much damage for PAIN and how long or what type of BINDING is it?
13. Is Judgement basically firelash?

14. How long are the cooldowns on things like Snare and Roar?
- When will Achaea make numbers like this available so that every player ever doesn't have to test the mana/eq/damage costs of the hundred abilities they have access to?

Addama

I'm seeing so many bleeding deaths on deathsight.

Ernam

Xith said:

14. How long are the cooldowns on things like Snare and Roar?
- When will Achaea make numbers like this available so that every player ever doesn't have to test the mana/eq/damage costs of the hundred abilities they have access to?

Currently testing, will post results.

Dunn

You are just so cute.

What fast travel are you talking about? The removal of raido? The channel time of wayfare? 

Xith

I imagine a typical combat strategy binding: Maligus & Tarnel, to get those quick fashions.

Then unbind Maligus and Tarnel, switching to:
Syvis (relapse)
Aelkesh** (more swiftcurses)
Aspar (coag afflicts)
Teraile** (bleed)
Marak (fashion to 20 so you can SOULSCOURGE paralysis with your final curse for the lock)

**=attuned