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Forest Conflict

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  • EldEld
    Nim said:

    Ah. I took his statement as being "you don't need to fight to be involved in a war," as many other people've said in this thread, as opposed to "conflict doesn't have to be violent."

    Also, I personally disagree that factional conflict in Achaea makes the setting compelling; I think, in its current form, it weakens the setting more than anything, particularly thanks to the lack of resolution. That's my own personal opinion though, and I hardly know how many people agree with it.

    Anyway, I just wanted to hammer in the point that not everyone roleplays for the sake of conflict - not that conflict is bad or shouldn't exist at all (although I personally think forced conflict is usually worse than no conflict, and that it should come about as naturally as possible), but it sounds like some people feel that Eleusis is generally over-emphasizing that aspect of roleplay, and maybe it could use more peaceful roleplaying and stuff. :)

    I'm not sure if we're disagreeing about the need for conflict of some sort in general, or the effectiveness of the specific form of factional conflict in Achaea in fulfilling that need, but the point I meant to make is a bit more general. Not every bit of roleplay needs to be writing an interesting story. But it's the overarching story of the setting that makes it compelling to roleplay in, and that story won't be interesting without some conflict (which in the case of Achaea is largely realised in the form of conflict between the major factions, for better or worse).
  • NimNim

    Both things, but in a really weird way where I agree that your points are true in some cases or for some people, but just not valid as sweeping statements. My whole argument is that you shouldn't presume that they're true for everyone, and that you should realize that people like different stuff for different reasons.

    Yes, even your point about overarching stories making settings compelling to roleplay in - some of my favorite roleplaying has come from me and some friends going "we should roleplay," making up characters, and going with it. A setting usually formed over time if we continued roleplaying that particular scenario, but sometimes I've started off engaging roleplays with less setting information than "is it fantasy or modern?"

    If you still disagree, we should probably take it to PMs or maybe start a thread about it in the RP forum, though - what does roleplay need to flourish? What do people think roleplay needs? I'm really lazy about planning things out, so I can assure you that, for me, it doesn't need all that much!

  • SylvanceSylvance
    Just me or is this going in circles?
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    Kind of but not really.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • SylvanceSylvance
    edited March 2013
    @Rangor - me too, but I'm equally quite amazed that it's currently on page 9.

    New thread idea: Old Theft > New Theft
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • RangorRangor
    @sylvance - ONLY at page 9 you mean.
    image
  • WysteriaWysteria
    Mishgul said:

    If it wasn't exterminate it would just be Wysteria tending to city raid damage in the dead of night (which takes 15 minutes of sitting alone in a room doing nothing to fix iirc) because Mhaldor does not have the firepower to sustain a city raid when meeting equal numbers at all, or people just camping your city in awkward locations because they are bored and want to fight. 


    Correct. Solo CITY REPAIR ROOM = 15 minutes per room. When you're the sole development aide and there's 5 rooms to fix, that's a good 1.25 hours gone. I'd just leave it alone but I have that guilty conscience thing poking me in the back of my head.
    "Faded away like the stars in the morning,
     Losing their light in the glorious sun,
     Thus would we pass from this earth and its toiling,
     Only remembered for what we have done."
  • RangorRangor
    What you get for being religious.
    image
  • ChryenthChryenth
    My conscious stopped making sense a while back. Now I just listen, and if it screams louder than whatever I'm doing I should probably reconsider.

    I think my muse may have beaten it senseless. :/
    I am the description ninja.

  • WysteriaWysteria
    Rangor said:
    Got to kill that conscience thing.

     It only took me the first 2 rl years of playing achaea to kick it to the curb and bury it.
    I'm hitting the near two year mark for playing so any time soon I think. Would this apply to the Icons too? It's like OCD with me strengthening them all the time. Like a nervous tick.
    "Faded away like the stars in the morning,
     Losing their light in the glorious sun,
     Thus would we pass from this earth and its toiling,
     Only remembered for what we have done."
  • PrythePrythe
    Idelisa said:
    I wonder at what point Eleusis moved from being a gathering place to might-as-well-be-oakstone?

    I would assume that Eleusis would have been built as a HAVEN rather than an obligation.
    I believe that at the time Eleusis was created the sentiment among the hardest cored Oakstonians was, "Hey, WE were supposed to be the -not- City."

    One of the things I love(d?) about the (formally?) unique attitudes of the Druid House/Guild was that it provided elements for Role Play as a subset of the larger picture.

    I've watched current debates between beliefs of forestals:

    Join Eleusis - Don't join, it's a City!
    Raid Mhaldor - Don't raid, offense does not help, and might even harm, Nature!
    Help Cyrene - Don't help Cyrene! Us and only us!
    Patrol - Patrolling is a waste of time.
    Run to put out fires - Don't! Fires are natural!
    Rejuvenate Immediately - Wait so that "they" don't gain whatever it is those horrible miserable nature hating Devils gets from exterminating (oh, did I say that aloud?)

    These day-to-day disagreements and struggles are part of what makes the game interesting and not just a Multi-Person Shooter.

    As noted, I loved being in the Druid Guild because Druids, as a whole, were a unique subset of a whole - all dedicated to Nature.

    I love being in the Sylvan House because those differences are celebrated and appreciated, not shut down as heresy. There are actual discussions, with none afraid to speak.

    While combining in some ways makes sense (who needs 100 clans dedicated to patrol and reports going to more than half a dozen people each time something happens?) I fear that if we combine too much we will become Stepford Forestals. Well, some of us will never be Stepford, but the pressures of Group Think will send some people running for the Hills. Which will suck, because then somebody else will be Hunting my Giants!




    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • DraukaDrauka
    if only the conflict of this thread could be directed in-game, that'd be cool.
  • EldEld
    Rangor said:
    I blame the guy that made a new necro'd the old forest conflict thread.

  • SylvanceSylvance
    Only... if it did... somebody would lose... then they'd start a thread about it :'(
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • IdelisaIdelisa
    @skye - missing some giant ass smilies.
    image
  • AwanAwan
    ANNOUNCE NEWS #3818
    Date: 04/03/2013 at 02:11
    From: The Omega
    To  : Everyone
    Subj: Exterminate

    In news that is, no doubt, of interest to forestals and necromancers both, exterminate is no longer permanent. After approximately one in-game year, an exterminated room will regenerate on its own, with the exception of forest rooms in Mhaldor, where the red fog and the power manifested by Sartan keeps Nature at bay.
    I'm gonna go ahead and re-resurrect this thread, since the above change seems to have surely been in response to the suggestion, made in this thread, that it would help if exterminate isn't permanent.

    Okay, I am somewhat inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt, and assume that y'all do understand that a change to the game mechanics that we're notified of in a completely OOC fashion, in an Announce post, which is not an event that occurred in game that characters can respond to, and which has come with no change in the descriptions of extermination or the in-game story about what it does, is not by itself of any benefit.

    But I confess I'm slightly concerned; obviously, forestals are not going to start leaving rooms exterminated without rejuvenating them, so there doesn't seem much point to having them rejuvenate themselves after a year unless one mistakenly thought that would make a difference.

    So, just in case... This is what does seem like it could help, at least to me:

    Have a significant, meaningful event in which extermination is either made impossible, or is weakened. Then, make a new skill works in a mechanically similar way, save that it isn't permanent, and which has a different name (the word "exterminate" has a meaning), a different description, and a different story about what it does. (That story being that it temporarily draws some natural energy away for the necromancer's own use, temporarily suppressing the vitality of an area, or something else of the sort, not that it kills everything, and not that it is removing the very Natural essence of an area, which is the current story. It would need to be something we are able to understand as not doing genuine harm to Nature.)

    Having the extermination-equivalent be non-permanent would be a necessary condition for having an adequately different story about what it does, but it is not, at all, a sufficient condition, if you didn't do the other parts too. If the idea behind this recent change was that it would affect forestal roleplay, that would require a very significant misunderstanding of forestal roleplay, and would be kind of insulting to the people in Eleusis who roleplay, and care about doing so consistently.

    Honestly, I guess the change at least doesn't hurt anything, even if it also doesn't help anything. But I'm a bit nervous, because to the part of me rendered cynical by spending 5 years trying to get forestal conflict to be made bearable only to be repeatedly jerked around or ignored, this has the faint odor of a half-hearted effort which enables the administration to say they tried, so y'all can carry on implementing whatever plan you like, and continue blaming forestals for everything if/when that plan doesn't work for them. I'm going to hope that's not what this was about.
  • DraukaDrauka
    edited April 2013
    This doesn't really impact anything, does it? Does anyone really care about pissing off forestals? I do notice that some famous forestals do head over to Mhaldor just to fight, but it seems like the same ~20 characters doing rounds with each other all the time.

    Meh. 

    Maybe before Alchemists, when you needed forestals for curing, but now I could never interact with a forestal or really care much about the forest being mad at me and it wouldn't impact my character at all. Yet, I suppose the same could be said with any faction, and the same could be said about Mhaldor in the Nature camp.

    Dunno how to fix anything or if it needs fixing. Suppose it makes forestals' life easier?

    Then again, Drauka is a Grook in Mhaldor with tons of healing supplies in shops there. So the forest regions and the curing supples from Nature are not as important to him.

    One thing that would be a big plus for Nature characters would be not just the plants of forest being pissed off, but also the wild beasts there too, like in the southern Vashnars. -swarm, swarm, swarm!- Not THAT would be awesome and I'd fear Nature a lot more for pissing them off as it actually would impact my character as he goes through there all the time to get to the southern continent and Orilla. I'd think twice about doing harm to Nature if I got swarmed by two huge bears and a drake or two at once, unless I just blackwinded though there, but still it'd be a pain.

    Edit: as long as the forestals were fair about it and not be jerks abusing power, that is ;)
  • NizarisNizaris The Holy City of Mhaldor
    Awan said:
    ANNOUNCE NEWS #3818
    Date: 04/03/2013 at 02:11
    From: The Omega
    To  : Everyone
    Subj: Exterminate

    In news that is, no doubt, of interest to forestals and necromancers both, exterminate is no longer permanent. After approximately one in-game year, an exterminated room will regenerate on its own, with the exception of forest rooms in Mhaldor, where the red fog and the power manifested by Sartan keeps Nature at bay.
    I'm gonna go ahead and re-resurrect this thread, since the above change seems to have surely been in response to the suggestion, made in this thread, that it would help if exterminate isn't permanent.

    Okay, I am somewhat inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt, and assume that y'all do understand that a change to the game mechanics that we're notified of in a completely OOC fashion, in an Announce post, which is not an event that occurred in game that characters can respond to, and which has come with no change in the descriptions of extermination or the in-game story about what it does, is not by itself of any benefit.

    But I confess I'm slightly concerned; obviously, forestals are not going to start leaving rooms exterminated without rejuvenating them, so there doesn't seem much point to having them rejuvenate themselves after a year unless one mistakenly thought that would make a difference.

    So, just in case... This is what does seem like it could help, at least to me:

    Have a significant, meaningful event in which extermination is either made impossible, or is weakened. Then, make a new skill works in a mechanically similar way, save that it isn't permanent, and which has a different name (the word "exterminate" has a meaning), a different description, and a different story about what it does. (That story being that it temporarily draws some natural energy away for the necromancer's own use, temporarily suppressing the vitality of an area, or something else of the sort, not that it kills everything, and not that it is removing the very Natural essence of an area, which is the current story. It would need to be something we are able to understand as not doing genuine harm to Nature.)

    Having the extermination-equivalent be non-permanent would be a necessary condition for having an adequately different story about what it does, but it is not, at all, a sufficient condition, if you didn't do the other parts too. If the idea behind this recent change was that it would affect forestal roleplay, that would require a very significant misunderstanding of forestal roleplay, and would be kind of insulting to the people in Eleusis who roleplay, and care about doing so consistently.

    Honestly, I guess the change at least doesn't hurt anything, even if it also doesn't help anything. But I'm a bit nervous, because to the part of me rendered cynical by spending 5 years trying to get forestal conflict to be made bearable only to be repeatedly jerked around or ignored, this has the faint odor of a half-hearted effort which enables the administration to say they tried, so y'all can carry on implementing whatever plan you like, and continue blaming forestals for everything if/when that plan doesn't work for them. I'm going to hope that's not what this was about.
    Based on Sarapis's earlier post, it sounds to me like the recent change is more of a bandaid, which I think @Cahin mentioned on the Whiner's clan:


    Sarapis said:

    Extermination isn't going anywhere, btw. It may see some changes, but it will still be what it is now: The severe damaging of normal nature within that room. The mechanics by which that happens may see some adjustment.

    Beyond that, let's just say we're going to even things out a bit and give Nature a way to be aggressive rather than purely defensive.


    Looks like there's more to come. And some progress is indicative of a larger system to be put in place at a later date.
    image
  • DraukaDrauka
    Doh.

    Disclaimer: I've been drinking, my bad. Don't drink and forums? (tm)
  • HayteHayte
    edited April 2013
    Awan said:
    I'm gonna go ahead and re-resurrect this thread, since the above change seems to have surely been in response to the suggestion, made in this thread, that it would help if exterminate isn't permanent.

    Okay, I am somewhat inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt, and assume that y'all do understand that a change to the game mechanics that we're notified of in a completely OOC fashion, in an Announce post, which is not an event that occurred in game that characters can respond to, and which has come with no change in the descriptions of extermination or the in-game story about what it does, is not by itself of any benefit.

    But I confess I'm slightly concerned; obviously, forestals are not going to start leaving rooms exterminated without rejuvenating them, so there doesn't seem much point to having them rejuvenate themselves after a year unless one mistakenly thought that would make a difference.

    So, just in case... This is what does seem like it could help, at least to me:

    Have a significant, meaningful event in which extermination is either made impossible, or is weakened. Then, make a new skill works in a mechanically similar way, save that it isn't permanent, and which has a different name (the word "exterminate" has a meaning), a different description, and a different story about what it does. (That story being that it temporarily draws some natural energy away for the necromancer's own use, temporarily suppressing the vitality of an area, or something else of the sort, not that it kills everything, and not that it is removing the very Natural essence of an area, which is the current story. It would need to be something we are able to understand as not doing genuine harm to Nature.)

    Having the extermination-equivalent be non-permanent would be a necessary condition for having an adequately different story about what it does, but it is not, at all, a sufficient condition, if you didn't do the other parts too. If the idea behind this recent change was that it would affect forestal roleplay, that would require a very significant misunderstanding of forestal roleplay, and would be kind of insulting to the people in Eleusis who roleplay, and care about doing so consistently.

    Honestly, I guess the change at least doesn't hurt anything, even if it also doesn't help anything. But I'm a bit nervous, because to the part of me rendered cynical by spending 5 years trying to get forestal conflict to be made bearable only to be repeatedly jerked around or ignored, this has the faint odor of a half-hearted effort which enables the administration to say they tried, so y'all can carry on implementing whatever plan you like, and continue blaming forestals for everything if/when that plan doesn't work for them. I'm going to hope that's not what this was about.
    Bolded: Ruin your credibility at the beginning of a post and it won't magically appear for the rest of it.
    Sorry guys, I know treading doesn't exist anymore, but it was in an OOC announce post, so I'm going to continue trying to tread water, and since it won't let me, I'm going to force myself to drown because that's good roleplay.
    If you want your roleplay handed to you on a silver platter exactly the way you want it or no way at all, don't be surprised 5 years later when you're cynical.
    Also what is your obsession with changing the name of exterminate?
    Your whole post came off as

  • JacenJacen
    @Hayte be hatin'. 

    HA! Finally got to do one of those "substitute forum name for real word" things all the cool people around here do. B-)

    On topic, Awan's right. Its not even a bandaid, its a totally ineffectual attempt at a solution. Its like saying X city can raid and destroy as many rooms as they want in your city, but don't worry about it, they'll repair themselves after a year. If the admin expect this solution to even be a bandaid at all, nature leaders would have to pull crazy shit out of their asses to tie it in IGly.

    image
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