Fashioning, and the royal pain that it is.

Jovolo

Jester really has no room to complain about Minuet with their hinder.

And lol did I see someone earlier in this thread say Jester has poor hindering? Wtf. 

Ernam

Yes, you did.  Seems we agree on more than one thing today.

Seftin

Ernam said:

Yes, you did.  Seems we agree on more than one thing today.

I believe it was Bluef actually.

Kaie

@most of you. Just shut up. I love how people who are other classes or have spent all of 6 minutes exploiting some random ass gimmick come on talking about Jester being the greatest shit since iced tea. Well, if that's the case why are you not Jester? Right.. because you either A) sucked at it, or are just talking out of your ass.
Jester is not really the best damn class. A lot of it's skills are bugged as fuck, or simply do not transition well with the rest of the skills. I assure you after having spent a very long time playing Jester that you will inevitably have to suck it up and just realize that against anyone with a clue, you need high fashion counts.

And @‌Sobriquet don't even start with that. As far as I know you're barely here and haven't been seriously involved in pk since before I made Kaie. So, for you to sit there and say 'you haven't spoken to a proper jester' is ridiculous. Go engage a few actually good people and get back to me on this.

@Ernam Just shut up, you're really not even that good.

Bombs are a hair short of being a total joke, and you can NOT prevent "dropping" of bombs, you can prevent them being given back or packed, however.. dropping does the exact same thing by stopping YOU in your tracks.

So, to put it in a way that's watered down enough that your disease riddled swiss-cheese brains can sponge it up, there is only 1 way to stop bombs from being discarded and that is paralysis. However, if you've reached a point where you can stick paralysis long enough to work with bombs, then you're a retard and wasting your time because you could do something so much better than a gimmicky randomized unreliable bomb trick.

The class is "okay" I'm completely disregarding stupid 1-trick ponies for a reason. Against the majority of classes you will find your shortcomings to be 1, slower prep time and 2, less of a solid strategy. That's not counting any 'slowlock' variants. We're trying to avoid massive fashion counts right? So, for anything solid and by solid i mean more than likely to work.. you -have- to start considering playing defense and survival until you get a high enough count. Which is unfortunately more than enough time to get you killed a couple times over.

If you believe you can do something "solid" without such skills, then you are either banking on the other person being a complete moron and having zero defensive style (aside from automated curing), or are working with a highly unreliable gimmick, or a blademaster speculating.

Jester is either slow or unreliable.. no getting past that. You sacrifice reliability (meaning it's probably not gonna work on smarter people), for speed. And typically doing this you end up spending a longer amount of time on dumb shit than you would have if you'd gunned for something more reliable from the start.

Ps: I quit bitches.

Edit: I forgot riftlocks. Those are possible provided your opponent doesn't just run away after limbs start breaking.. which most people will. So you're still screwed.

Bluef

Seftin said:

Ernam said:

Yes, you did.  Seems we agree on more than one thing today.

I believe it was Bluef actually.

Bluef said:

Bombs can still be very useful if you know how to use them, but they do have some issues at present. Jesters definitely don't have the same kind of hindering that shamans do, but there are ways to address that. 

Jovolo

Which is wrong

Bluef

I play both classes and I don't see a lot of similarity between being able to hinder with curses every 1s, runes and totems amid fashioning and the kind of stuff that jesters use to hinder. I never said jesters couldn't hinder or that they had poor hindering, just that the playstyle is somewhat different as far as hindering goes. 

Kaie

It's not wrong really. It isn't the same type of hindering when you think about it. You might think "omg that's so fake.. jesters have hangedman!" However powerful hangedman is, it's not quite the same. For fashioning Shaman > Jester. For stopping momentum Shaman < Jester.

The reason I say this is because Hangedman takes balance which grants you what, like .5 seconds gained between the time you gain balance back and they writhe? Opposed to dropping runes over an area or hitting with a propped totem. 

No contest, the latter is clearly better for gaining fashions with no resistance.
The former (hangedman) being better for on the fly ball stomping against affliction classes.

Jovolo

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

Jhui

these poor souls, I bet if they were priest they would think priest sucked too.

Mako

Jester these days I would go for vlock with sleep in aeon. THEN FASHION THEM HAHAHAHAHAHA (aint that jesterly?) then you kill them with a full puppet

Mako

i was thinking about this last night before i went to bed. You could slowlock + truelock + sleeplock someone  and not kill em. Why you could collect living specimens even

Mako

i dont think they could heartstop, someone correct me if im wrong

Mako

as of now i see jester as the most powerful 1 vs 1 class

Mishgul

heartstop goes through aeon and sleep iirc

Mako

thats lame

Mako

some people don't want to heartstop tho so theres that

Mako

a jester could take their hocuspocus's pretty far if they wanted too. Gonna end this with that

Jovolo

Jovolo said:

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

@Kaie @Bluef @Achimrst

Atalkez

Brb going Jester

Achimrst

Jovolo said:

Jovolo said:

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

@Kaie @Bluef @Achimrst

Why for art thou summoning me Combat God @Jovolo?

I never said Shaman have better hindering than Jester >.> I don't even know wtf Jesters do other than they have puppets and itching powder gives impatience or something. Oh and OMG I freaking hate tarot... this is why I don't play occultist anymore or jester at all :P

Um, so anyway. Shaman can force a tumble and throw you into runes and bind. I guess that is hindery. Force tumble and leave to prop a totem might be fun although I have never tried it and depending on the totem configuration it can he hindery. Um...can't blight sleep right now because of serverside curing last I checked so that's out, you can blight dizzy or bind and mangle or something....WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME HARD QUESTIONS!


Edit2: Continuously blight dizzy and curse paralyse? Just another idea I had in the three seconds since I edited.

Jovolo

Why did you disagree when I said Jesters have better hindering than Shamans, then...?

Achimrst

Jovolo said:

Why did you disagree when I said Jesters have better hindering than Shamans, then...?

Basically because we have totems which can transfix, paralyze and put you to sleep. Then we can immediately begin attacking with a doll to add a bind and slow you.

Jovolo

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Seftin

Ok, time to make this thread obsolete.

Talysin

Oh God, you made him go Jester.

Patroklos

Talysin said:

Oh God, you made him go Jester.

Works for me, gives me someone to work with and bounce ideas off of. I've found one tactic I can do that uses zero fashions and no prep, but Jesus it's terrifying depending on if the concussionbomb is much longer than what I set it for. 

Kaie

Jovolo said:

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

@Jovolo man, if you'd simply utilize those eyes to read the post. I never said Shaman has "better" hindering. I said it's not exactly the same. The styles are apples and oranges. Each has their shortcomings, but if you're talking simply about just using hindering to fashion. then Shaman is where it's at because it won't consume balance to hinder via runes/totems. It's a pointless conversation anyways, fashioning is boring and time consuming for everyone.

Patroklos

Kaie said:

Jovolo said:

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

@Jovolo man, if you'd simply utilize those eyes to read the post. I never said Shaman has "better" hindering. I said it's not exactly the same. The styles are apples and oranges. Each has their shortcomings, but if you're talking simply about just using hindering to fashion. then Shaman is where it's at because it won't consume balance to hinder via runes/totems. It's a pointless conversation anyways, fashioning is boring and time consuming for everyone.

There's also the fact that if someone -really- wants to escape a Jester they can, the RNG on peels is absolutely horrible, even if you drop 10 of them which is blatantly obscene. Two classes can evade out of them with no penalty, one can raido out if there isn't a mono down, another two can pilgrimage out with no mono, flying out isn't hindered, nor is duanathar if you're outdoors. At that point all they have to do is run away and wait for the doll the unravel itself and they're usually happy to come at you again if you feel like expending the energy again.

In all honesty Jester is almost a strictly support class with the current design, if I recall reportedly @Tecton‌ mentioned something about Jester getting an overhaul, but I could be wrong. Right now the current feeling on Jester is a lot of frustration, I only got my one slowlock move working because @Dartega‌ happened to point out a few things that actually showed the validity of it. As @Kaie mentioned, most of the people saying "Lol, Jester is easy, clearly you're a nub" aren't of the class and giving suggestions that still involve utilizing fashions in order to get ahead in fashioning, which derails from the original purpose of the thread.

Bluef

Kaie said:
@Jovolo man, if you'd simply utilize those eyes to read the post. I never said Shaman has "better" hindering. I said it's not exactly the same. The styles are apples and oranges. Each has their shortcomings, but if you're talking simply about just using hindering to fashion. then Shaman is where it's at because it won't consume balance to hinder via runes/totems. It's a pointless conversation anyways, fashioning is boring and time consuming for everyone.

Achimrst said:
Basically because we have totems which can transfix, paralyze and put you to sleep. Then we can immediately begin attacking with a doll to add a bind and slow you.

Kaie said:

It's not wrong really. It isn't the same type of hindering when you think about it.

Bluef said:

I play both classes and I don't see a lot of similarity between being able to hinder with curses every 1s, runes and totems amid fashioning and the kind of stuff that jesters use to hinder. I never said jesters couldn't hinder or that they had poor hindering, just that the playstyle is somewhat different as far as hindering goes. 

Bluef said:

Bombs can still be very useful if you know how to use them, but they do have some issues at present. Jesters definitely don't have the same kind of hindering that shamans do, but there are ways to address that. 

Jovolo said:

Jovolo said:

So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?

@Kaie @Bluef @Achimrst

It's already been stated. ^^^More than once. I never ever, ever, ever said it was better, just different.