What Happened To You Today?

Gallida

Every faction except Cyrene should be 100% okay with throwing infinity bodies at a problem because they're all a different flavor of "the ends justify the means". It may not work this way in practice and whether this is a good thing is another question.

Mhaldor arcspam is fightable, just not by "we outnumber them three to one, rush rush rush". Stop smashing your deathball-of-bashing-macros into something designed to eat it alive and start thinking strategically.

Kog

I throw more bodies at problems than just about anyone else, to be fair.

Mhaldor has an incredibly potent series of tools for setting up those sort of engagements. I'm not well-versed enough in the options/counters to have a meaningful opinion on it, but I know it absolutely shreds our newbies and gives up a sanction pretty much every time it gets used. "We can sip for more/survive for more than you can" is the challenge, and Mhaldor DOES usually win that bet.

With trace, beckon, and gravehands on Apostate paired with the aoe sustain/damage capabilities of Infernal, Mhaldor has a 'signature' style that lends itself well to digging in and either ripping groups in half to defeat in detail, or killing half of a group immediately. Targossas has a strong-ish factional identity too, I think, with how their classes seem to play out? Paladin defend+heal, the starburst interaction on Priest (I think that's still a thing?) - it's the opposite sort of 'feel', where it's zealot crusaders refusing to even let something so temporary as 'dying' get in the way of continuing the fight.

Mhaldor's factional-specific stuff is extremely powerful, in my opinion- but I think that's the sort of thing that I'd rather see enhanced in other orgs if it's an outlier, not weakened in Mhaldor.

Shecks

4 artied arcs can instantly kill anyone who's not shielded or otherwise immune, and the 4 people can easily use reflections or other mechanics to avoid killing each other (except maybe the first guy).

I mean we really going to say this is ok?

Reyson

You can't arc and be reflected/shielded, and also reflect/shield doesn't stop Guise damage, just so you're aware.

Also, in that log, everyone but Prof died, so I'm not sure what your point is. No one else walked away from that.

Adrik

Yes, 5 people murdered an entire team. With the only person surviving being the Mhaldorian who's soulfire killed me from burst, to truedeath...

Like, I understand your wanting to keep it. However you can't use the logic "Well just don't rush our room, you can LoS us!" or even the logic of stuff like dragon tailsweep into trample whenever you can arc from prone so long as you have one unbroken arm.

We didn't rush you. We LOS'd you, then you immediately rushed us. Proficy dropped crucible. We killed Crixos (who then smacked everyone for 35% of their health)... and then you all arc killed everyone else.

It's not 'fun' or engaging whenever Mhaldor fielding 5-6 infernals means that our side is killed outright. Not even Hashan has this level of room-wide murder. At worst, they burst everyone, and it can be stopped by just murdering the person doing it.

Here murdering one of the 5-6 infernals involved actively makes the situation worse.

Shecks

@Reyson I'm saying knight 2-4 reflect or shield, knight 1 arcs, then knight 2 arcs, then knight 3 arcs.

None of the knights die except maybe the first one. Everyone else dies. Whole thing happens in 50ms.

Not that even if all of the knights arcing died, it'd make this balanced or good gameplay.

Kog

It also gets a sanction if it happens in a city, or charges up a tank (which you can reincarnate onto) if a sanction is already down. You can use the space bought to disarm a tank if it's on defense, too, because defenders should get back to the city faster than attackers during a raid situation, if both sides have to embrace.

If that's in a single round, that also seems kind of crazy since your window for counterplaying it is the time between them walking into the room and the time the fourth arc goes through? Maybe room-wide arc needs to be some kind of soft channel or have some other sort of limitation. I know it's super frustrating when a radiate goes off when Hashan's raiding because it's such a pain to stop if you get stuck, but there's a pretty clear "things are about to get really unpleasant" warning to deal with.

Reyson

@Shecks We've never done it like that, and the reason why is something I noted in my first reply to you, dude. You get told you talk about stuff you don't understand a lot, and this is one of those times.

Adrik just told you everyone in that room but Proficy died.

ETA: Tag

ETA2: I'm not going to give away how to beat us, obviously, but Gallida's on the right track, @Kog.

Shecks

@Reyson So you're saying you guys didn't just instantly kill 10+ people or?

I really don't care if I'm off on a detail, whatever you're using is busted. I don't need a PhD Arc mechanics to see that.

Adrik

@Kog I saw them enter room, we killed Crixos, and then Crixos died to an arc. By the time Crixos died from multiple people attacking him, our team was essentially dead.

Arc does about 28% against people with poor cutting resist. (About 14% vs fullplate. Less depending on other circumstances).. One person dying with miasma/vengeance to arc is another 33% to the room, and 15%ish fire damage to everyone.. Considering 1 arc will generally heal about 20% on average with the group size we had.. Killing Crixos actively was a detriment to us, because it meant that we all lost another chunk of health and effectively reduced the amount of knights required to true kill us all down to 3~4, rather than 5~6.

vengeance can't proc miasma/vengeance/crucible. Crucible can't proc vengeance/miasma/crucible. These things are mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, Arc can kill one person (or 2 people), which will have them proc their effects.. Which will weaken the next person down the line in the arc chain to be susceptible to being killed by arc. Which if they die, will trigger another Crucible tick. Which will weaken the next person in the line. Ad nauseum until everyone but the Infernal who started that arc train is dead, since they heal per kill that they've gotten.

This probably shouldn't be in WHTYT, but at the very least. Room-wide attacks should NOT be proccing crucible/miasma. That will at least be a start that makes surviving the deathball somewhat more reasonable.

Edit: You can say what you want about "strategic thinking".. I guess you are right though. If the options are: Attempt to range out Mhaldor and then have them all rush you and the infernals arc + gravehands so you can't escape and die anyways... or.. rush them and die anyways.... There's no real winner here. The end result is "Just don't engage Mhaldor."

Reyson

Nvm, it's definitely not worth it. Classleads!

Saonji

Anyone else notice they changed the @person colour finally? Hooray.

Now if we can change the rest of these terrible forum colours... And the layout...

Taryius

There are plenty of options, and plenty that can be performed by a single competent individual if asking to train an entire group to respond is asking too much (which it really shouldn't be).

I can't definitively say what is balanced, but I can say that you cannot really balance around consistently taking no action.

A crucible change just rolled through to make interactions more consistent, so I'm looking forward to what's to come!

Savira

add new skill to survival/avoidance/weaponry (or a new artefact for the creditsales/golddrain in game) whatever: Duck'n'cover, for a moderat to high endurance drain and +5% Bal/EQ on abilities you'll be on  constant lookout for AoE attacks, giving you a 50% chance to avoid them by jumping to the ground, in case you dont avoid it you take 50-75% less dmg from the AoE attack because you cover vital areas of your body

(or full damage from the first Arc, 50% reduced from the second, 75% reduced from the third, 100% reduced from the 4th with a internal timer or 10 seconds from the first Arc hitting you (Arc is used as an example)). (numbers can be tweaked but whatever, just an example)

Add a per room CD timers on balance free AoE effects such as Crucible/Vengeance/Maisma on something like 2-5 seconds.

Alt keep Vengance/Maisma as they are and chance Crucible to be a mini worldburn gimic dealing 10% dmg every couple of seconds for a min or so when dropped.

Tada now you can still spam your arc or thronspray or whatever else AoE you wish and people will have a fighting chance to either gtfo or fight back. Will probably still hurt like a bitch to stand around in there and it can be used to throw out entrenched enemies but in most cases single target will still be superior. Assuming the enemy team have the skill active, else it'll work just like it do now. If the second option with dropping damage per hit would be used rather then a flat reduction then two two knights using arc would still hurt a lot for most people to apply AoE pressure while the rest of the group single target people to death but this way it would actually work both ways since it wouldnt instantly kill everyone in the room

Saonji

bottom text

Ryssa

Did some sailing with @Synthus , the first in a long, LONG while, even then, just a single stint. So panicky and nervous of crashing or doing something wrong, anxious fingers making things worse, lol. Was really fun though.

Adrik

Today I had someone take me off of ignore to tell me that he is going to PK me forever for forest enemying him (I didn't). And that me killing him for defending Targossas (he dropped piety on me, and later flew above me with deliverance while I was uprooting)... is against the PK rules...

And then went on to state in an IC message, that if I don't stop PKing him when he defends Targossas (and let him freely kill me).. that he's gonna get the admins involved and issue me.

Safe to say, I just ignored the guy who uses Ignore to not have to interact with me except on his own terms.

Shecks

You 3v1ing me outside of the city for dropping a piety during an earlier engagement on defendable is something I can handle. Completely unengaging, unprovoked, flippant aggression that isn't fun for anyone is the par for the course with you (like your 7-man totem raid on a city with 2 people online earlier today), and I wouldn't be in the same area with you if I wasn't prepared to see more of it. However, you killing novices (emphasis on the plural) walking into the city who hadn't touched you, I'm not going to overlook, especially when it's a pattern of behavior not just a one-off.

You cannot just kill uninvolved players for being citizens of a city you want to raid, and you cannot claim PK on people for defending a city, after-the-fact, either. It is not fun or fair for them, nor should it be fun for you.

Messages are not IC, obviously, and the message to you was a courtesy, as an attempt to get you to stop killing our newbies on flimsy "but we were raiding" nonsense. If issuing you is the only way to get you to stop, then we will - but I thought a polite message was worth a try. I'd also like you to go ahead and screenshot any instance of me ever saying that I want you to let me freely kill you. I'll screenshot me transferring you 100cr if you can manage that. It's also generally best practice not to put someone on ignore then immediately go to forums to trash talk them.

As for enemying someone to Eleusis for defending themself from being attacked by an Eleusian outside of Eleusis, I guess that's your prerogative. I noticed that after attacking me and getting venomlocked, this fellow ran back to Eleusis and died to Voyria. Maybe that's the source of your confusion, or maybe it's blind rage. Who knows. I'm sure it will get fixed as soon as Eleusis gets rid of you. I've been a friend of 'loosis for 5 times longer than your character existed, and will still be one long after you get bored and go back to Ashtan/Mhaldor.

Adrik

Literally what novices. The ones you brought with you to attack us? I didn't touch anyone until you brought a huge group.

Messages are IC. All forms of contact are IC unless agreed upon by both parties. As for "killing your newbies", lets see! Astryr was killed by me (he attacked), Shecks was killed by Endryn (he attacked), Reonna was killed by Lyrin (She attacked), I killed you when you tried to deliverance bomb us (for the second time).

Do you mean Rhyco? Who joined with your group to attack us? Or maybe Erick, who also joined with your group to attack us?

https://ada-young.com/pastebin/KoMYsrQ0

Oh, or do you mean whenever you entered my room, snickered, and dropped piety? Or.. Perchance you mean when you continued to meteor / kai choke me after that engagement to "get me off the totem"?

00:04:34.963 Reonna, Rhyco, and Romaen arrive, following Astarod, riding a withered crypt worm, from the east.

00:04:34.969 Mieshka raises up her head, letting out a baleful howl, her blue eyes cold and piercing, fur raised

00:04:34.969 on the back of her coat as she starts circling her prey.

Or do you mean this?

00:04:58.583 Rhyco explodes upward from a low crouch, driving a Delosian bastard sword toward your torso.

00:04:58.589 The attack rebounds back onto Rhyco!

00:04:58.594 Rhyco doubles over as the blade slams into his side.

or... this?

23:52:05.948 Holding an apperception stone aloft, you gaze into the depths, seeking out Shecks.

23:52:05.954 Approaching the Champions' Bridge. (road)

23:52:05.959 The sun shines down, tinged grey by its passage through the thick clouds above. There are 2

23:52:05.959 Blackstone swordsmen here. Resplendent rays of white and gold suffuse the smooth contours of a

23:52:05.959 slender glass pillar, a fervent symbol of Light's resolve. Gripping a broadsword, a Shornwall

23:52:05.959 defender crouches slightly in anticipation. A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground. There

23:52:05.959 are 2 Naxian mistweavers here. An obsidian eye sigil is here. A sigil in the shape of a small,

23:52:05.959 rectangular monolith is on the ground. A gorgeous grey kelpie reclines, passive in its silken

23:52:05.959 bridle. A mottled Mhojave Desert falcon glides effortlessly to and fro. Standing still as a statue,

23:52:05.959 a blood steed has fixed its fiery red eyes on some movement in the distance. Harbinger Astryr Van

23:52:05.959 Helsing Emberheart is here. Her features are obscured by a mask of lifevision beneath the raised

23:52:05.959 hood of a Shadowcloak. Ensign Erick Karlsefni is here, shrouded. He wields a rune-etched mithril

23:52:05.959 scimitar in each hand. Cadet Rhyco is here. He wields a Targossian darkbow in both hands. Lumarch

23:52:05.959 Reonna Fitheach, Prophet of Justice is here. Legionnaire Shecks, the serpent is riding on a blood

23:52:05.959 steed. He wields a needle-pointed dirk in his left hand and a blackened leather buckler shield in

23:52:05.959 his right.

Like I have the entire thing logged. We didn't attack anyone that was not involved at some point in the defense. Even Astarod logging in, litanying, and QQing right after because you couldn't stop me from uprooting yourself.

If you're going to kick and scream and throw a fit that I attacked you because you walked into my room while I was uprooting, and dropped piety? At least make it believable.

Edit: Or is this another case of me portaling to you in a GHC that you put totems in, you screaming that I was griefing you because you went "DID YOU ATTACK ME?!"

Edit 2: Also literally what the fuck. I have never been a member of Ashtan or Mhaldor. You complete baffoon.

Saonji

Wait what.

Messages are IC.

Literally everything that is player-to-player communication is IC. Except very clearly-labelled OOC clans.

Even tells are. Admin have even stated that just because someone uses their little (( rp shields )) you don't have to take that tell as OOC. Especially if it's out of the blue, unwanted.

Also Adrik's never been either Ashtani, or Mhaldorian, to my knowledge. Just Targ/Cyrene/Hashan (and now Eleusis).

Shecks

Post the logs then, champ. Yes, I attacked you at defendable. That doesn't mean you can kill novices for the crime of being in the same room as me. It also doesn't mean you can 3v1 gank someone later on, outside of the city.

Adrik

@Shecks literally what the fuck are you talking about ganking someone 3v1 later.

Are you talking about Romaen? Because he's Dauntless.

Nor did I attack any novices. They literally came into room and attacked me.

Saonji

He literally posted the log showing them attacking him first, lol.

Shecks

@Saonji jokes on me for getting pulled into this "refute my bullshit" challenge on forums where I have to state the obvious "that wasn't the beginning of the fight nor was it the thing anyone was referring to".

He posted a log that was after everything I mentioned. But go ahead and encourage him. Looks great on you.

Saonji

I mean everyone knows you're a pathological liar.

He sent me the full log, right from when he logged in. Right from him first farseeing you in Azdun, to him going to smudge totems in the Reaches, then you and Romaen going to attack him.

This has much less to do with 'encouraging him' and more to do with dismissing your outright lies. Including this gem, after you guys attacked him first lol.

Eryl

Careful guys. Shecks will issue you, lie to the admin about things that are super easily proven false, confuse you with someone else, and then delete the issue after you reply.

Its almost like he’s not just a pathological liar, but he’s a pathological liar that tries to bully people by abusing marks and issues.

Milabar

Honestly i just want some of the weed he be smoking cause that's the good delusional stuff.

Puff puff pass bruh

Milabar

Double posting, obviously I'm high enough

Ryssa

Been using the new 'think' action, and been nice, considering Ryssa spends a lot of time in her head. A Divine even answered her musings, though, not very reassuring to Ryssa in the moment. But, interesting.

Dominius

I think you guys got it all wrong.

So you THINK Shecks is this relentless lying prick that makes people laugh with his temper fits BUT that's just the CHARACTER that he plays!

In reality he's the supermind master of Achaean combat who is happy to stay in the shadows while making sure the balance scale of combat never favours one class over the other.