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  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Santar said:

    No, because then there would be an infinite amount of things to bash, which is a huge contrast from the way things are now. Grinding one area would take much longer and reap much higher rewards. Things wouldn't get bashed out and people wouldn't have to change areas nearly as often. Being able to just stay in one area grinding one denizen type for so long would make bashing much more efficient than having to wander around and find new things. Right now, bashing areas are a bit of a 'resource' that a person has to go around looking for/planning out. If changed like this idea proposes(without any compensating changes), then there would always be tons of high level denizens for anyone to bash, with no such thing as competition or resource management.


    I'm assuming that those wouldn't be intended changes, and would rather be unintended side effects.  Heavily raising the respawn timer on denizens could work as well.

    And then.... 18 year old dragon alts everywhere... Yeah that would not be good in the least.

    image
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Strata said:
    Santar said:

    No, because then there would be an infinite amount of things to bash, which is a huge contrast from the way things are now. Grinding one area would take much longer and reap much higher rewards. Things wouldn't get bashed out and people wouldn't have to change areas nearly as often. Being able to just stay in one area grinding one denizen type for so long would make bashing much more efficient than having to wander around and find new things. Right now, bashing areas are a bit of a 'resource' that a person has to go around looking for/planning out. If changed like this idea proposes(without any compensating changes), then there would always be tons of high level denizens for anyone to bash, with no such thing as competition or resource management.


    I'm assuming that those wouldn't be intended changes, and would rather be unintended side effects.  Heavily raising the respawn timer on denizens could work as well.

    And then.... 18 year old dragon alts everywhere... Yeah that would not be good in the least.

    You mean like we have now?

    Borran
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ideas: 

    Ability to fear mobs
    Abilities that debuff a mobs damage
    Abilities with DoT effects 
    Abilities that reset a mobs 'balance time'
    Mobs with weapon rebounding
    Mobs with conditional instakills (ie. Vivisect/absolve)
    Mobs that sometimes drop their forged weapons/armor upon death. (Possibly lower stat values than forged)



  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Borran said:
    Ideas: 

    Ability to fear mobs
    Abilities that debuff a mobs damage
    Abilities with DoT effects 
    Abilities that reset a mobs 'balance time'
    Mobs with weapon rebounding
    Mobs with conditional instakills (ie. Vivisect/absolve)
    Mobs that sometimes drop their forged weapons/armor upon death. (Possibly lower stat values than forged)


    Mobs in Imperian that are capable of hitting non-heavily artifacted people for ~40% of their health in one hit, same mob also has access (albeit low trigger rate) to incinerate. Pls add this. It's hilarious seeing those deathsights.


    I'm sure Trey would be camping the crap out of the last ones, if you could smelt their stuff.

  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,705 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cynlael said:

    Borran said:
    Ideas: 

    Ability to fear mobs
    Abilities that debuff a mobs damage
    Abilities with DoT effects 
    Abilities that reset a mobs 'balance time'
    Mobs with weapon rebounding
    Mobs with conditional instakills (ie. Vivisect/absolve)
    Mobs that sometimes drop their forged weapons/armor upon death. (Possibly lower stat values than forged)


    Mobs in Imperian that are capable of hitting non-heavily artifacted people for ~40% of their health in one hit, same mob also has access (albeit low trigger rate) to incinerate. Pls add this. It's hilarious seeing those deathsights.


    I'm sure Trey would be camping the crap out of the last ones, if you could smelt their stuff.

    I might even hunt, ever, if that happened. I don't as it is :(

  • MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Love the sound of these changes, though it makes perfect sense that when I finally decide to make the push for dragon, the entire PvE system gets a revamp...lol.



    Borran
  • JhaeliJhaeli Member Posts: 541 @ - Epic Achaean

    More Area of Effect abilities would be neat. Magi has the flavour to be a glass cannon, for example, and being able to use abilities like holobomb in a room full of goblin zombies, for example, would be a lot of fun. Having the surviving zombies target you afterwards would also be part of the fun. Risk vs. Reward and so forth. Would be nicely paired up with, say, a Knight partner who followed up with defend to help soak up the damage and another group member to help take down the now damaged zombies. 

    ...I am so freakin' excited now for this. I would be willing to die a couple times to over-aggro just to blow up a group of mobs for shits 'n' giggles. 

    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that [everlasting] life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man." 

    Borran
  • TraelorTraelor Columbia, SCMember Posts: 70 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I hope we get some sort of "threat" system so those of us who are a bit tankier can encourage mobs to attack us and leave our party mates alone. However, I'm loving the idea of a PVE revamp that allows me to use more skills and actually have to think a bit.

    Traelor - Saving the day since 594

    JhaeliBorranEilona
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Just realized the meta idea encourages an Alpha in a hunting pack. 

    coolio.


    TharvisJhaeliValaria
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Are my ideas anywhere close to what the Higher Powers had in mind? @Sarapis



    Hasar
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Traelor said:

    I hope we get some sort of "threat" system so those of us who are a bit tankier can encourage mobs to attack us and leave our party mates alone. However, I'm loving the idea of a PVE revamp that allows me to use more skills and actually have to think a bit.

    This already exists, though it's a pain in the ass. Effectively, if you're in a group of many mobs, you can make any number of them focus on you by being the last to hit them. What this means is, you have to strike things further down on IH (I think, but am not sure, that hitting creatures by their name (i.e. 'orc') hits the first 'orc' listed on IH), identifying them by number. That's how I've always done 'tanking' in Achaea, at any rate.


    Downside is it's a pain in the ass, of course. I have to confess, I'm set in my ways, so I haven't tried 'DSL orc#2'- does that work? Not sure if that works/is not affected by holding corpses in your inventory.

  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Fear is a weird thing to give blademasters. Maybe bleeding or something against targets with blood to lose? Getting Shin from denizens would be cool as heck too, giving BMs like six different attack types with infusions. We'd be like magimonks!
    BorranAtalkez
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I think this is great. I hated pve mostly because doing the same thing for hours is boring. New bashing abilities to mix things up would be great, especially if it's more than just a flavor change. 

  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Ooh! Give them a bleed DoT they can start with to maximize dps. Shin idea broken IMO. 


  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited July 2014
    You'll have people hitting their mules to get shin in combat. =/


    Kerria
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bleed DoT is DPS. Not engaging. I take it back already, unless we can brokenstar mobs. Shin idea is resource management, thus decisions, and thus engaging. It doesn't exist yet so I dunno how it's already broken!
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I though about giving them a taunt,  but it doesn't fit their kit... and I honestly don't know how shin works, except that it is kinda like kai.


  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    DoT can be engaging in longer fights, but not really useful with how quickly things die right now. If you're taking on a mob that takes 2-3 people to kill, a DoT can be very beneficial.

    I'd be fine with DoTs as long as there are other ways to fight as well, but it would make things like shaman bleed a lot more interesting with how much it stacks. Also, DoTs should take a lot of balance.

    I think every class should have around 3 bashing/hunting abilities, which currently is only runewarden with group heals, group buffs, dsl, rsl.

    if every class had something similar to this, it would be a lot more fun.

    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    Borran
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Maybe give knights and BMs a technique to barge mobs into another room with them.. 


  • NellaundraNellaundra Member Posts: 1,556 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Shin works by building up as you attack instead of getting attacked, and it's basically Kai - except much less potent. A Blademaster requires some level of Shin for any sort of fighting and gains/loses it really fast, while Monk is a much more of a slow build up to more potent abilities. Having Shin in PvP would let Blademasters infuse their strikes for different elements (maybe different effects on the mobs based off element) which would likely be a tad stronger than a normal slash at base anyway.


    E: Basically, I fully support letting Blademasters get shin from mobs because it would be cool as hell and it builds fast enough that hitting a mule would only save like fifteen to thirty seconds of smacking.


    VV Much cooler than you.

    image
    BorranWes
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shin: each strike gives 8 (12 in sanya) shin. Can use it for infusions, elemental fists, and a small handful of shindo powers (health, mana (neither very good), room attacks, and vitiate (stat penalty to target)). Could ask burst to that list if blademasters get a way of generating shin from PvE. Getting it from combat is not hard enough that the mule thing would be an issue, I think, except against opponents who like avoidance tactics a lot, but maybe someone cooler than I could elaborate.
    Borran
  • ZivaZiva Member Posts: 8 ✭✭ - Stalwart

    Why not also make certain kinds of weapons more effective against certain kinds of denizens than others? At the very simplest level, armoured denizens could be more susceptible to blunt weapons (like maces) and less to piercing weapons (like rapiers). This might encourage people to use a wider variety of weapons and could make fighting as a knight more interesting. At a more complicated level, the weapons could be on a sliding scale. For example. a club is 100% blunt, rapier is 100% piercing, broadswords are 80% cutting, 20% piercing, or whatever. The idea would be for each weapon to be a unique mix of 2 or 3 characteristics which provide a reason to use them.

  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    More abilities to use in PvE. In particular, abilities that will make group bashing more efficient than solo bashing, though every class is also going to get at least one other bashing ability that's useful solo. The goal here is that while bashing may be f1 f1 f1 f1 f1 right now, it'd be slightly better if it was f1 f1 f1 f2 f1 f1 f3, if you see what I mean.

    I think you all are reading far too much into this point right here. The plan doesn't seem to be "extensive PvE combat system with tanks and healers and dps", but more along the lines, "you will bash like normal but have other abilities to maximize what you're already doing".

    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    Aepas
  • UreelUreel Member Posts: 50 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited July 2014
    The basic idea behind making pve more intricate is commendable, but I don't much like the beginning implementation. The very start of these changes put a bad taste in my mouth simply because instead of buffing other classes up to reach the "ideal" bashing threshold, they nerfed the better bashing classes. That alone makes me a little wary of where this might go. 

    Sometimes, ideas appear better on paper than they truly are, and I am afraid that this might be one of those cases. Be careful that while attempting to make bashing more enjoyable to your players you don't turn it into one big nightmare (note the new mark system). There are times that people just want to log in, bash, and relax after a stressful day. PVP is where the complication should remain, in my opinion.  

    Mishgul wanted Jesus to fix my banner. Neither of us could get it right :(


    BorranCronoEilona
  • TessaTessa Member Posts: 66 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Alright, to state: I haven't read past the first few post due to time restrictions. So if what I say beyond this point has already been said, that's the reason.

    That said, I do like the idea of this, so long as it doesn't go overboard.


    Some areas are fun -because- it's a ton of little things that will hurt you very badly in groups, but die easily...so the idea becomes to kill them as fast as possible. Mind you this is rare and usually dependent on random mob stacking. Hope you guys consider that one. :)

    To adds a few examples more specific to class play:
    -I found monk a fun class to hunt with. Why? Because you have to juggle a few skills to survive and prevail. Numbing, stances, attacking, transmuting, hammer (if you bother with breaking shields). A very active class, but not overboard. Too much more and it'd be a bit excessive. Not every player would want to swap through ten aliases just to grind for gold.

    -Occultist, was boring. Prep, warp indefinitely, sometimes Empress for extra health or Astralform as an emergency button. I hope this sort of hunting receives a lot of love. Chaos Rays AOE or somesuch. :P

    -Knight is a bit more interesting than Occultist due to DSL, razing, rune usage such as Uruz and Raido (if things go south), etc, but could use something more. Maybe the ability to lunge into a room for a first strike.


    A final point I'd like to bring up - another thing I think PvE could really use is 'instanced dungeons'. A respawn system like it has is good for smaller communities, but when you get a lot of people out at once, a good amount will end up staring at empty hunting grounds and waiting for timers that a lot of people have their own little alarm clocks set for. Especially when you get higher levels bashing lower level areas (no hate there, it's just a factor). Hunting is still very doable in Achaea, but there are gaps that are painful during the level progression and generally lend to saying 'screw it' over doing something else. Manara, Actar, Tenwat, Dun Fortress are just a few examples. I doubt nor do I hope that it ends up wholly changed, but I think some instanced areas for differing levels could ease those pains?

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