Houseless city member

Ayena

A question: Which city is most supportive of/ good for a member who is not planning to be in a house? I believe Eleusis and Mhaldor has laws in place to make all citizens be in a house... But what about other cities? Do they have pressures to join a house? Does it make a significant difference for the player/character if they aren't in a house?

Okay, that was more than one question... >_< thanks for any responses in advance!

Kresslack

There are cities which allow you to be a citizen without forcing you into a House. Hashan and Ashtan come to mind, maybe Cyrene as well.

Ayena

Thanks for the response. What do you mean by "maybe" in Cyrene? Is that because the new houses haven't come in place yet?

Kresslack

I've never been a citizen of Cyrene, so can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure they don't require citizens by law to be Housed.

Ayleth

Kresslack said:

I've never been a citizen of Cyrene, so can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure they don't require citizens by law to be Housed.

This is true, yes.

Ashtan, Hashan, and Cyrene (I don't know if this is going to change once the houses are finished, or not. I highly doubt it will) don't have laws in place - you can be a houseless individual if you so choose. Targossas, Mhaldor, and Eleusis - you must join one of the houses, except I THINK once you're a certain age in Eleusis, you can remain in the city without a house if you get permission from a Leath-ri (same with Mhaldor, but it's at the behest of the Tyrannus. Unless that rule changed). @Rangor or @Logistics or even @Ellodin might be able to explain Eleusis better (it's been quite some time since I was a villager!)

Nim

Ayena said:

Thanks for the response. What do you mean by "maybe" in Cyrene? Is that because the new houses haven't come in place yet?

The new houses could certainly change the dynamic a bit, but Cyrene has a strong belief in live and let live, so it's doubtful that you'll ever be required to join a house. Ideally, the new houses will be more connected to the city and more people will want to join them, but in the past (at least as long as I've played), even its own leadership was as (if not more) often houseless than not.

Ayena

Thanks for clarifying! If someone could please confirm about Eleusis/Mhaldor, that'd be great!

Ayleth said:

Kresslack said:

I've never been a citizen of Cyrene, so can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure they don't require citizens by law to be Housed.

This is true, yes.

Ashtan, Hashan, and Cyrene (I don't know if this is going to change once the houses are finished, or not. I highly doubt it will) don't have laws in place - you can be a houseless individual if you so choose. Targossas, Mhaldor, and Eleusis - you must join one of the houses, except I THINK once you're a certain age in Eleusis, you can remain in the city without a house if you get permission from a Leath-ri (same with Mhaldor, but it's at the behest of the Tyrannus. Unless that rule changed). @Rangor or @Logistics or even @Ellodin might be able to explain Eleusis better (it's been quite some time since I was a villager!)

Antidas

I can clarify for Mhaldor - you can basically assume you have to be a member of a house. There are certainly some circumstances where members have been given permission by Sartan/the Tyrannus to not be a member of a house, but they are few and far between. They are also usually the result of when some citizen cannot get along with the house his class was forced into, but remained a strong servant to the city, or some various there of. As a new character coming in, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of them letting you be houseless.

As for Eleusis, I'm 99% sure Ayleth is correct, but then, I've never had an Eleusian character I paid any attention to, so I could be wrong.

Kresslack

Pretty sure the only Houseless citizen we have in Mhaldor (and the only one I've ever known of) is Vicious, and that wasn't his choice.

Jamethiel

Cyrene is currently allowing houseless members but it's unlikely you'll get the benefit of any of the milking rooms, master crystal, ourobori and such.

Ayena

Thanks for all the replies! Would anyone happen to know what age in Eleusis that is? Sorry about all the questions, I'm just really curious. @Jamethiel‌ What's an ourobori? Sorry if it's a noob question haha.

Ayena said:

Thanks for clarifying! If someone could please confirm about Eleusis/Mhaldor, that'd be great!

Ayleth said:

Kresslack said:

I've never been a citizen of Cyrene, so can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure they don't require citizens by law to be Housed.

This is true, yes.

Ashtan, Hashan, and Cyrene (I don't know if this is going to change once the houses are finished, or not. I highly doubt it will) don't have laws in place - you can be a houseless individual if you so choose. Targossas, Mhaldor, and Eleusis - you must join one of the houses, except I THINK once you're a certain age in Eleusis, you can remain in the city without a house if you get permission from a Leath-ri (same with Mhaldor, but it's at the behest of the Tyrannus. Unless that rule changed). @Rangor or @Logistics or even @Ellodin might be able to explain Eleusis better (it's been quite some time since I was a villager!)

Rangor

If you're new to the game/new character, assume you have to join a house in Eleusis.

Mithridates

An ourobori (ouroboros singluar) is a picture, sculpture, symbol, etc. of a snake eating it's own tail, forming a perfect circle.  

Ayena

Thanks @Rangor‌

@Mithridates -- just want to clarify, how is an ourobori beneficial?

Tharvis

Ayena said:

Thanks @Rangor‌

@Mithridates -- just want to clarify, how is an ourobori beneficial?

Iocun

Just to clarify: ouroboros is the singular, ourobori is the plural.

Kresslack

A lot of these questions would be good to ask in game as well, especially regarding what a particular thing is or does. Best way to find out is to dive in and start learning.

Jamethiel

You lot, sheesh! Ourobori are required to do enchantments. There ARE public ourobori but they cost 200 per group of enchantments.

Ayena

Thanks for all the information everyone.

Ayleth

Kresslack said:

Pretty sure the only Houseless citizen we have in Mhaldor (and the only one I've ever known of) is Vicious, and that wasn't his choice.

Malifuus was/is houseless for a long time, but that was WAAAAY before Congregation started accepting Jesters.

Jhaeli

To clarify, Cyrene does allow for Houseless city members. But there will also be increasing encouragement to join a Cyrenian House going forward, including, as Jamethiel said, limiting access to certain class resources, such as the Master Crystal (Crystalism), Ourobori (Enchantment), Milking rooms (Venoms), and possibly the Hatchery (Chivalry). There are public equivalents, but they can cost money. I doubt there will ever be a requirement to join a House though.

In the end, it depends on what class you want to be. (It will be more difficult to be a Houseless Magi for example.)

Nellaundra

The age for the Eleusian no house thing is 25, IIRC

Kanita

I have a random question stemming from this thread. How hard is it for a past Mhaldorian to join Eleusis or Cyrene? If somebody joins Eleusis after age 25, can they join the village houseless? Curious.

Ayleth

Kanita said:

I have a random question stemming from this thread. How hard is it for a past Mhaldorian to join Eleusis or Cyrene? If somebody joins Eleusis after age 25, can they join the village houseless? Curious.

It shouldn't be that hard unless you've hurt the forests, raided, or done something terrible to Eleusis and/or Cyrene. If you're still a novice, it should be easy-peasy lemon squeezey.

And I think so! Could ask @Lala or @Rangor. They'd know better.

Florentino

Cyrene holds unreasonable grudges, Eleusis is pretty okay, I think (I also think Rangor and other good folk are trying to implement processes that let forest enemies and the like atone for their crimes with rituals/RP).

Jhaeli

@Florentino is clearly forum-rping. 

Cyrene is generally pretty understanding. I mean, Herenicus was able to join the city for a time, if I remember right (I was dormant at the time). So unless you've done something particularly bad, they're likely to forgive, especially if you're young and especially if you've otherwise behaved since. And if it's just from being a citizen of Mhaldor, it's likely easy to get past.

Shirszae

Jhaeli said:

@Florentino is clearly forum-rping. 

Cyrene is generally pretty understanding. I mean, Herenicus was able to join the city for a time, if I remember right (I was dormant at the time). So unless you've done something particularly bad, they're likely to forgive, especially if you're young and especially if you've otherwise behaved since. And if it's just from being a citizen of Mhaldor, it's likely easy to get past.

Not really, they have incredibly long sentence times, and equally ridiculous fines. 

Iocun

Yes, but that's just the upper extreme. It's one thing if you're enemied for years of constant raiding, but another when you're just enemied for being a Mhaldorian, which doesn't even come with a fine or charge at all.

Nim

Shirszae said:

Not really, they have incredibly long sentence times, and equally ridiculous fines. 

Part of it's values dissonance. In Mhaldor, you raid and are raided because of orders, suffering, etc. In Targossas, enemies of creation must be purged, etc.

For Cyrene, the culture is avoiding violence and world politics. In a sense, this means raiding is such an utter taboo to them that it's no wonder they penalize others so steeply for doing it.

The other part is an extension of the above. If you raid Mhaldor, Ashtan, Targossas, or Eleusis (perhaps even Hashan?), expect retribution. You can raid Cyrene on a weekly basis and probably never even get ganked for your efforts, unless we happen to have @Zinka at the moment.

However, that's not to say there won't be retribution for raiding Cyrene. Retribution comes in the form of the above.

It's shoddy - it does nothing to people who simply don't care about the city - but it's still a consequence, and consequences are cool. Consequences go a long way to making roleplay seem real - and how you deal and react with them is part of roleplaying too.

For example, I personally love the fact that a number of Targossans are enemies to Cyrene because of thier crimes prior to joining Targossas (or, in some cases, their crimes even after joining the City of Light), because while the Bloodsworn Gods may have forgiven them, they've done little (or at least not enough) to seek forgiveness from the City of Neutrality. It spells out their priorities very coldly, and has all sorts of social impacts.

Shirszae

Nim said:

Shirszae said:

Not really, they have incredibly long sentence times, and equally ridiculous fines. 

It's shoddy - it does nothing to people who simply don't care about the city - but it's still a consequence, and consequences are cool. Consequences go a long way to making roleplay seem 

Generally, I agree with you, but simply having to wait out 5 rl (exaggeration... maybe) months is not 'cool.' Consequences are nice when they add to the world. Being told to wait with no possibility of doing anything whatsoever adds nothing except frustration. 

Melodie

Shirszae said:

Nim said:

Shirszae said:

Not really, they have incredibly long sentence times, and equally ridiculous fines. 

It's shoddy - it does nothing to people who simply don't care about the city - but it's still a consequence, and consequences are cool. Consequences go a long way to making roleplay seem 

Generally, I agree with you, but simply having to wait out 5 rl (exaggeration... maybe) months is not 'cool.' Consequences are nice when they add to the world. Being told to wait with no possibility of doing anything whatsoever adds nothing except frustration. 

Yeah, but you (general you, not you you) also probably chose to do (most) of the crimes you did, at the same time. I understand there are times Sartan orders what he orders, but it wouldn't have been enough to rack up the time/fine some do, by far. And speaking of someone who spent six real months to get possibly, maybe, hopefully, with no guarantee, to get one of her class skills back...

That said, I do believe it would be nice to have more roleplay-forward ideas of being able to help with your time/fine. I know Mhaldor has some various tasks you can do, and Eleusis in the middle of creating trials to help with that. I firmly believe this would also work in Cyrene, it just needs some dreaming/imagining up (it's not like Cyrene really cares about the gold, it's all about paying a penance for what you did). That's way out of my hands now, but perhaps one day someone will!

Edit: Much typos.