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Triton and Vertani as playable races

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  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Shirszae said:
    the lore for each race would be revised first, establishing a much needed solid base for the more lacking ones. (Sireni and Satyr, specially)  
    Given the current official siren artwork, I'm kind of scared of this becoming a reality. I think it's much better to just pretend that sirens are animes, and thus have whatever racial backstory befits the protagonist (eg. any particular siren).

    Like, Nimsirens are totally a race of magical girls, and she's the weird one with a sword. There's always a weird one with a sword.

    @Shirszae is part of a moe race of girls known for eating cake, sipping tea, and being in a band. At least, that's what I'm told the plot of K-on is about.

    If she were a siren, @Madelyne would hail from a species not entirely unlike pokemon trainers, known for their eternal rivalry with the Flying gym leader @Penwize.
    JulesSylvance
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    While the official artwork is... yeah, terrible, mostly anything would be better than having no back-story whatsoever. And I say mostly because I'd rather have nothing than a badly written fanfic taken as canon.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • DraqoomDraqoom CyreneMember Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Xith said:
    Also, let's make Shokan with quad-wielding happen.

    image

    In all seriousness you could balance most of it out by giving them 6 base strength. :( Except 4 rapier venoms... darn.
    ETA: Slower dsl balance on shokans? :( pleesh? K, I'll stop trying to make it work...
    prep all xith limbs
    combo xith sdk hfp left hfp right spp left spp right
    plaugh xith
    combo xith axk ucp ucp ucp ucp


    Yep, sounds good to me
    image

    AchimrstNaah
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    While the official artwork is... yeah, terrible, mostly anything would be better than having no back-story whatsoever. And I say mostly because I'd rather have nothing than a badly written fanfic taken as canon.
    As a more serious response, then, I ask you: what sort of backstory or racial identity would they have?

    I think, ideally, they'd be sort of a vagrant race, filling random niches in societies predominantly made up of other races, or perhaps being outright travelers. There could be communities of sirens (or satyrs), but literally requiring other races to procreate suggests they'd be somewhat dependent on them culturally as well, and it'd take some significant xenophobia for them to go "oh, you weren't born a siren? you're not allowed to stay here" to their own children.

    It's true they might have some crazy mythological backstory like "they were made by a bored Scarlatti" or "they were amazons from island X" or etc. but as far as ongoing racial identity goes, I feel like they'd best be defined by not particularly having one. Same with Satyrs, really!

    That's just my opinion, though! My poorly educated, unknowledgable-at-Achaean-lore opinion. From what little I know, though, the sireni NPCs seem to support it, mostly filling niche roles such as servants to the divine or being that one sireni member of a non-siren community. I could very well be wrong, though!
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't really have anything specific in mind. However, in my opinion, they do need some racial identity. Its simply boring and unimaginative if they do not have one.  Otherwise I agree with you. A traveling background would fit them much. One thing I've entertained sometimes is the notion of Satyrs and Sirens sort of having developed a special kinship with each other sometime in the past, fending for each other in different areas and the like while being essentially people of the road in the present. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Sylvance
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Other than the total overhaul we've just been told isn't going to happen, I sort of hope they just leave things alone (which seems to be the plan).
  • HyperlithHyperlith San Fierro area, San AndreasMember Posts: 357 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Arachnoi? Tailors and jewelers would sell hella boots and rings!

    Anaidiana
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well, I don't know how much of an issue size will be to RP. I've seen some pretty messed up "RP" including humans with kitty cat ears and tails, or Raja's who are basically humans with kitty cat ears and tails.. So, for those people.. morphing from imp to say, Vertani with the same armour would be nothing. However, if you wanted to make it so we can't all wear the same armour, well I guess those with gems and such would have a realistic expense to their choice of race hopping.

    Personally, I'd like to see different sized races something that can happen, even if it means my armor needs tailored to my size.
    Sylvance
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    I'd like to propose an entirely different frame of thought.

    I think that having certain races be of different sizes would, if anything, weaken my suspension of disbelief, because it means that, for example, vertani and humans can't wear the same armor, but a six-foot-four giant of a man and a five foot nothing shorty, both of the same race (or same sized races) could still wear the same armor.

    So, if you did add sizes, I feel like it should be something on an individual level, perhaps, with race-approved limits perhaps (eg. no dwarves taller than X feet), or else the system has an internal contradiction of sort.

    I'm not actually suggesting that, though. I think it'd probably be a pain and a bit overly mechanical. I just think that if you're gonna have mechanical sizes, you should go all out with it.

    EDIT: Clothes are a bit more complicated, too. Armor probably needs to be crafted specifically for a particular build and size (with some potential variability, depending on the type of armor, but if you're too far off, it might do more harm then good!), but you could totally wear a robe meant for someone twice your size, and have it trail around, tied to your waist with a sash or something.
    SenaSilasKaie
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    @Sarapis I think the first step in making races relevant is to make racial languages more important. I love Istarion for this reason. 

    It could honestly be done with some more fluid changes to the world. Especially with higher level areas. It would be perfect there. With the money restrictions on language learning, if somebody wanted to check out an area they'd have to hire a translator or reincarnate. reincarnations have the 1-2 per day change, and they'll lose some other language in the process.
    KaieAchimrst
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I think if you want to make races important, you need to make the race more visible.

    Gender for instance is referenced in basically everything you do. 90% of all second and third person messages have a gender specific pronoun in it so it is very hard to not know what gender someone is. With race however, unless you specifically look at/honours someone, or they do a very limited range of prebuilt emotes, you might never know  their race.

    Everyone knows when someone is a dragon because of the custom room entrances/exits. Not saying every race should have that kind of thing but to make race relevant, IMO, you need to either make it exclusionary like house/city choice so people band together or make it visible like gender choice. Otherwise it is just a stat choice that you never have to look at again and no one will pay attention to it except to see your stats.
    ShirszaeSybilla
  • IsaiahIsaiah GeorgiaMember Posts: 136 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jiraishin said:
    I'm assuming there's some meaning of 'Salamander' here besides the animal? Because right now I have this really hilarious image of a tiny, spear-wielding lizard-thing being stepped on by a Vertani who doesn't know it's there.
    that being said, I'm sure if you give him 15 minutes or less he can save you money on your mount insurance too...

    Eat like a caveman, train like a beast. Champions are not born, they are made. 

    SylvanceSilasSynbios
  • JiraishinJiraishin trapped in a thawing block of iceMember Posts: 1,956 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh god, now I'm going to see all of the salamandrin as the Geico gecko. Thank you for that image.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    SynbiosJhaeli
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,584 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Isaiah said:
    Jiraishin said:
    I'm assuming there's some meaning of 'Salamander' here besides the animal? Because right now I have this really hilarious image of a tiny, spear-wielding lizard-thing being stepped on by a Vertani who doesn't know it's there.
    that being said, I'm sure if you give him 15 minutes or less he can save you money on your mount insurance too...

    Racial Specialization: Geico Blood
    *15% gold discount when buying from NPC or player shops
    *15% gold discount on ferry costs
    *15% credit discount on artefact purchases
    *May no longer reincarnate either through free incarnation or through artefacts.

    AchimrstJiraishinXith
  • JiraishinJiraishin trapped in a thawing block of iceMember Posts: 1,956 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I would totally go for that.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    Mannimar
  • FaurFaur Member Posts: 159 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Xith said:
    Yeah, +1,000,000 to locking races. It makes racial identity moot which unfortunately invalidates any particular racial goals or even rp traits. The very few interactions any of my characters had with Faur, for example, were really cool because he gave 100% to being a gruff dwarfy dude.
    It's freaking HARD to keep in character. You're not makin' it any easier.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bonko said:
    While we're at it can we update trolls?

    I'd really like to be able to go to Shunai Bridge (near NoNT) and DESCEND BRIDGE then be able to ABDUCT <person> (into a kill room) or CLUB <person> (instakill, no prep).

    Tyvm.
    Can we offer our frisky goat kids as payment to cross over the bridge?  [-O<
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    NimSynbios
  • CardanCardan The GardenMember Posts: 437 Immortal
    Kayeil said:
    Bonko said:
    While we're at it can we update trolls?

    I'd really like to be able to go to Shunai Bridge (near NoNT) and DESCEND BRIDGE then be able to ABDUCT <person> (into a kill room) or CLUB <person> (instakill, no prep).

    Tyvm.
    Can we offer our frisky goat kids as payment to cross over the bridge?  [-O<
    I don't know that @Latus will appreciate being offered.





    For the OP, as has already been stated, Triton and Vertani aren't going to be viable choices for player races, now or in the future, but adding more races in general is something we may look at in the future as time permits.


    I'll leave this thread open for now if people would like to make suggestions for the races with what the believe would make for suitable base stats, backstory, benefits, drawbacks, etc.
    JhaeliJules
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,194 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What about a wolf-like humanoid, sort of like the ones found on Taur, iirc?


  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    All I know is I dont really want to see the ability to switch races taken away. I havent had to switch races yet and Zuko is 58, but its nice having that security there incase I decided to switch classes
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    The ability to switch races isn't going away, don't worry.
    Zuko
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Orcs and ogres could be logical to add, given the Dun Valley and such.
    KaraiYaeAtalkezLys
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,546 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Orcs and ogres seem like a weird choice to add. Aren't they both from the Underrealm, soulless products of Tsol'teth magics? Not a fan of seeing them as playable races - leave them as small bads to play minions for the more typical big bads in events.

    JiraishinKresslackEilonaAnedhel
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,943 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Sarapis I think the concept of "restricted RP" can be associated with new races to give more dynamics. For example, let's take Ormyrr, if for some reason they were introduced, I would assume they would have strict restrictions on organizations they may be part of. Frankly I can only see them possible in Mhaldor (this is only an example, everyone dont start chewing at it).

    I also would love to see our current races fleshed out more, as alot of unanswered and ambiguity follow them. Taking Xoran into consideration, the storyline of their origins presented to us was -Beautiful- and became one of my favorites immediately. It truly gave the race a life of its own (pun unintended) and removed the old concept of "weird half-lizard fugly men that appeared during death-heart's saga". I would love to see the same done to: Tsol'aa, Grook, Satyr and Siren.

  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Silas said:
    Orcs and ogres seem like a weird choice to add. Aren't they both from the Underrealm, soulless products of Tsol'teth magics? Not a fan of seeing them as playable races - leave them as small bads to play minions for the more typical big bads in events.
    This could be cool though, playing out that conflicted background. Maybe I'm just latching onto it because it's a strong background (but not overly specific), in comparison to the weak or nonexistent backgrounds of races like satyr, siren, and grook. I prefer to have some kind of direction, whether to follow or act in spite of, rather than a completely blank slate.

    My suggestions:

    Sakuwat, the abominable snowmen - yetis - from Ilyrean Isle. They have some kind of minor ice magic going on, which you might include in a racial ability.

    Goblins. Grimy green verminous creatures that multiply in caves. Classic fantasy archetype, universally loathed but somehow sympathetic underdog race. Racial rivalry with dwarves. Some racial traits: +100% damage to attacks against rats, and can eat rats, living or dead. +100 health and 1% damage resistance for every other goblin in the room. 25% chance of -25% on gold drops, 5% chance of +125% on gold drops.

    Sileg, the genderless mushroom race from the Mirror Caves on Meropis. How interesting would these guys be to play? Their characteristics don't adapt well to a player race tho, with the vague hive mind thing they have going on, genderlessness, and recycling their dead.

    Some kind of like enchanted armour race. There are no clear examples I can think of from within Achaea, but wouldn't this be cool? A race of people somehow fused with suits of armour. I don't know.

    Minotaurs. There are a few on Sapience, mainly in the Hriddan settlement but also some in Bella's Keep. Proud, belligerent, super-strong bull-headed people. Fun.

    Ursu. The bear-people from Quartz Peak. Strong visual, easy association of animal traits.

    Murinae. Rat-people from Mount Gheladan. Same as Ursu.

    Imps, pixies, kobolds. They'd be fun to play.

    Oh and a gorilla race. I don't think we have one. But I have been watching Justice League, and Gorilla Grodd is so great. You could also go for the Lovecraftian association, some kind of lost city in the jungle populated by intelligent white apes, as in Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family, though that particular short story apparently had strongly racist interpretations so maybe not.
    image
    JhaeliTwilightMelodie
  • XliXli Member Posts: 354 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Some kind of like enchanted armour race. There are no clear examples I can think of from within Achaea, but wouldn't this be cool? A race of people somehow fused with suits of armour. I don't know.
    Horkvali? Not exactly the same, but their carapace prevents them wearing armour, and functions a bit like armour...
    Hiroma tells you, "I just got to listen to someone complain about your deadly axekick being the bane of their existence."
    Archdragon Mizik Corten, Herald of Ruin says, "Man, that was a big axk."
    Hellrazor Cain de Soulis, Sartan's Hammer says, "Your [sic] a beast."
    Kerria
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Silas said:
    Orcs and ogres seem like a weird choice to add. Aren't they both from the Underrealm, soulless products of Tsol'teth magics? Not a fan of seeing them as playable races - leave them as small bads to play minions for the more typical big bads in events.
    No, the orcs and ogres weren't created by Tsol'teth magic - they ones serving the Tsol'teth are conquered races.
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,731 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    @Sarapis: Your thoughts on emphasizing importance on race intrigue me. You state that you believe the boat has sailed and that you have to do mechanically restrictive things to make it come true. I can respect this line of thinking and its logic, because in many ways, that's a truth for how Achaea has developed over its long years.

    The reason it intrigues me is because I look at a game like Lusternia where racial choice is very important to the degree that some cities will kick you out for being a specific race and racism is highly prevalent there while still having the same (if not more) mechanics to change race (race illusion hats, changeling cameos and even sex-change mirrors). Now, this isn't to say that the concepts of race hasn't been diluted over the years... but I think that's more a biproduct of Lusternia's RP declining overall and has nothing to do with how races have been encouraged in the game itself. Still, it serves as an example that one doesn't necessarily need constrictive mechanics to emphasize a concept. Bring out more lore and depth to the races you have and people will be drawn to that. Just my two cents!
    ShirszaeKeiJhaeli
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