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Triton and Vertani as playable races



  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alynna said:

    Penwize said:
    I don't really think getting rid of race changing would be a bad thing now that racial specs are in, but why not go the half-way point?  Change the gem to be spec and self-rez only, and hike up the dagger of reincarnation's cost to something that prevents casual race changing (say, 300cr).  That way reincarnation still exists, but becomes harder and thus it's easier to build up some racial RP.  I think letting players change aspects of their character is important in a game like this, and we see it all the time when players switch cities, orders, classes, etc.  It can also be an interesting point of RP.

    Though, that said, I've used my gem as a prop for my character's story as well, so I suppose there are advantages both ways.
    I always had the thought that the gem/daggers should be re-worked pretty much as Penwize has said. With the implementation of racial specialization, I see no huge drawbacks to making racial choice more special. I don't think the ship has sailed, @Sarapis! Maybe open a poll to see player's opinion on making races more inclusive, like the way you want them to?
    Would probably have to be an in-game poll, not everyone plays around on the forums while meditating back willpower like I do :P
  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I always liked the idea of an aquatic race, akin to the Kelki of Aetolia that lets you really go all out with the appearance. Being a frog just never appealed to me but I have seen some people really get into it. Really, I just want an excuse to have a description like 'it looks like an octopus half-swallowed her head' for a hairstyle. Seems like between Tritons and Grook, that water-dwelling race area is kind of covered, though.

    Now, if more races were implemented, I'd want the opportunity to change but making it more difficult to would be great. I know the GoM has tried to get something going with Moghedu and the Tsol'aa with the village but they quickly fall to inactivity after a while. It's like hitting a wall at a point and then more people tend to hunt their own race, anyway.
  • JonathinJonathin Grand Rapids, MIMember Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Honestly, making people choose one race isn't that big of a deal. It's always been 'choose your race carefully or pay up to pick again' (special circumstances resulting in free reincarnation excluded).

    As for adding larger/smaller races: that's not really a big deal either. Clothes, as far as I know, do not really reference size as much as the fit. If a dwarf and a vertani are looking at the same shirt, it was obviously tailored specifically to fit the person that buys it first.

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
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  • CathyCathy Member Posts: 377 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Silas is right*, pixie race plz.

    *I am aware this is not what he is saying, but so what.
    Achieved dragon on the 13th of Aeguary, 634 - aged 21 and 1 month and 21 days.

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  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,953 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Trey said:

    Sarapis said:

    Atalkez said:

    @Sarapis‌ Racist Against Drow. -10

    Drow are a D&D-specific thing. Literally everything you associate with Drow except the name itself is from D&D/Gary Gygax. It'd be like implementing Hobbits or Quidditch.

    (And while it's not 1:1, as someone pointed out, Tsol'teth fill sort of the same role. Sort of. Would never implement those either, as Tsol'teth don't play with the rest of the races. They hate you.)

    Yeah, as much as I think I could make rocking a 'teth work, we don't need four-hundred Drizzt clones running around.

    I was gonna be more Zaknafein >.>

    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cathy said:
    Silas is right*, pixie race plz.

    *I am aware this is not what he is saying, but so what.
    Would probably break my anti-veil boycotting to pay money if it meant I could play this.
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,570 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Trey said:
    Sarapis said:
    Atalkez said:
    @Sarapis‌ Racist Against Drow. -10
    Drow are a D&D-specific thing. Literally everything you associate with Drow except the name itself is from D&D/Gary Gygax. It'd be like implementing Hobbits or Quidditch.

    (And while it's not 1:1, as someone pointed out, Tsol'teth fill sort of the same role. Sort of. Would never implement those either, as Tsol'teth don't play with the rest of the races. They hate you.)
    Yeah, as much as I think I could make rocking a 'teth work, we don't need four-hundred rebel dual scimitar-wielding panther-owning noble Dr-izzth-maal clones running around.

  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't think the size thing is as much of a problem in a text-based game as it is in other things, but if enforced RP for it for clothing/armour is warranted, surely it wouldn't take too much effort to add in a size modifier and give tailors/forgers a resize ability that changes it.

  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,570 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Lusternia armour fits teeny tiny Faelings as comfortably as those humunguous Igasho. Mechanically-speaking, size modifiers for armour should not be concern. RP-wise, I'd personally just handwave it with 'I got this nice suit of armor from Trey and I had some outfitter custom-fit it for my body size and type'.

  • VeldrinVeldrin DenmarkMember Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Sarapis said:
    First, we need to keep in mind (or at least I do) that race isn't a huge part of RP for everyone because it's so fluid. In retrospect, I would have liked to have made stronger racial identities as core part of Achaea at the beginning, but that ship has sailed. In order to 'fix' it, we'd have to remove all gems/daggers of reincarnation, and the race you start with is the race you are permanently with, past maybe level 30 at least. Dunno how much people would like that in the end, but without it, race is never going to be all that important imo. I think there are also issues with adding another core 'identity', since we already have class, city, House, etc.

    Triton, can't see it happening - they don't play well with others as an RP point and their culture is well-enough developed that I don't think we'd want to dilute that by making them a player race. Granted, only Neraeos (whose role is now dormant) really knew the ins and outs of Triton culture well as he developed it.

    Vertani - There's a bit of an RP problem here because they're giants. All the other races are intentionally kind of the same size (so that clothes/armor make some kind of sense, though I'll certainly grant that it makes little sense for a Satyr to wear the same boots as a footed race, for instance). Curious what other peoples' opinions of this issue is.

    I do like the idea of new races and it's something we've talked about. Will likely happen at some point. 

    I don't see why it's a big problem, you don't really need to address it at all, for clothes and armor and stuff it's just 'one size fits all', just supply the race and people will make of it as they will. Some will RP it all out and others would treat it as a change of clothes (which is just fine too). For those who think the RP is important you can focus on them, the others won't care about it as long as you don't do stuff that'll negatively affect them (like changing how the gem/dagger works)
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Even when players desperately want to give their race meaning, and have some success on an individual level, the overall "story" of adventurer race in Achaea is so disjointed I almost wish that all adventurers assumed some generic race, and that we just manipulated stats and traits (because that's pretty much what it is now). 

    EDIT:  a great way of saying this is that Adventurer itself is really a race.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited March 2014
    I think that if you can change race at all, it almost doesn't matter how hard it is - that in and of itself destroys race as a core identity. Right now, gender is the only core identity that can't be changed, and so it ends up being quite meaningful (how many of you playing a character of one gender would be upset if it was reversed tomorrow, despite having far less coded-in implications than race does)? In other words, I partly agree with Jules, though we're not going to get rid of race.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ah well, I do like those cute mhun knights calling me 'm'lady'...  :\">
  • VeldrinVeldrin DenmarkMember Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't agree with that. The Dwarven, Sireni and Mhun races have some pretty good success in that area don't they? (Least they account for 3 out of 5 highclans) The Grook race have tried for rl years but since there's absolutely no help at all from the admins it's been halted. 

    The racial identity is there in the background it's just not really 'brought out to light' much. The only cases where that's not true is the people who just sees races as a change of clothes and any improvements with racial identity isn't going to affect them at all and they probably won't complain as long as you don't mess round with their ability to 'change clothes'
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2014
    It's not that people aren't interested, or that some aren't marginally successful at creating personal and sometimes even group storylines (like Iocun and his protection of Moghedu), it's that the overarching storyline of Adventurers and race lacks coherence and is essentially a stat set.  That's probably a big part of why even brilliantly played racial identities are one-offs at best.  Even if you couldn't change race fairly easily, sirens marry horkvals and have grook children.  What?  If you're not bloodlined, and don't bloodline anyone, it's not as big a deal, but then you're cut off from a huge RP aspect of the game.  

    For the races that don't like us, things do seem change... and like Nim said, not all segments of the current player races have warm relations with outsiders.  If admin wants tritons, Vertani etc... to remain forever inflexible so be it, but at least one triton city does now have friendly relations with the outside world, and the logistics of where life can exist are almost forever flexible in a magical world.  My steed doesn't even have to take prickly pear to visit... lucky.  On the other hand, currently friendly races could become more hostile.
    Post edited by Jules on
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,029 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Melodie said:
    As to the actual OP, as much as I would change to triton in three seconds, unfortunately I'm pretty sure the way their behaviour works, it just would not mesh well with the city-states. Vertani I have no opinion, as I have no real experience with them.

    As to the rest of things, I think limiting racial changes is definitely not a bad idea. We'd need some way to re-spec a bit easier perhaps, since the only way to do that now is reincarnation, but that could go either way. I think choosing your race -should- have more meaning, and giving more of an identity (especially with multi-class going to be a go at some point) for people to have is wonderful.

    I think Penwize's idea (or something similar to it) meets things in the middle. I know I wouldn't want race changing to be entirely impossible - a huge part of Melodie's past is the fact she semi-recently had her atavian wings sliced off and "became" a human, as a penance to her God. These kinds of things (done in certain circumstances) should remain viable as an option for those who choose to do such a thing. Hopefully for the right reasons!

    Slicing off your wings doesn't make you human, it makes you an Atavian who sliced off her wings! 
    You... you mean Melodie is still an atavian and she just doesn't know it?

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  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Next you know people will be chasing the rajas around with a knife and a razer. Off with the kitten ears and on with a shave.

    I'd be disappointed if new races came about and there was no way for current players to change, if that would have been the race closest to what they were 'meant' to be. And anyway, you've had people change race before, knowing their true race between all of those that they had already been would be difficult to pin down unless you gave them a grace period with every new race to change over especially for those of us that have never used that opportunity that admins gave us before.

    In the end, though, even if we were limited to one race (not really a limitation), it really comes down to the players to make it work and you already see players of a particular race killing their own or becoming more associated with a city that the heritage becomes diluted.
  • VerruchtVerrucht Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The only way that I really see tritons working as a player-race would be if there was a wholly triton city that was discovered in the Eusian somewhere that players could join.


  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Verrucht you mean Lothos? or Scyros? or Phocia? or Lemnos?
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
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  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, +1,000,000 to locking races. It makes racial identity moot which unfortunately invalidates any particular racial goals or even rp traits. The very few interactions any of my characters had with Faur, for example, were really cool because he gave 100% to being a gruff dwarfy dude.

    Wings, claws, scales, hooves, boobs, gills, and beards being swapped out on a whim makes race a shruggable thing or worse, a stats thing (partially fixed by the specs/traits overhaul, yay Tecton & Co.). It's something I always wished was different.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Also, let's make Shokan with quad-wielding happen.


    In all seriousness you could balance most of it out by giving them 6 base strength. :( Except 4 rapier venoms... darn.
    ETA: Slower dsl balance on shokans? :( pleesh? K, I'll stop trying to make it work...
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,164 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    *Scrula as playable race
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,154 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I am not completely sure of where I stand in regards to locking down race completely, though I certainly support the idea of making it much harder to switch.

    The thing is, some races have at least some semblance of lore which you can work with. Examples of these are mhuns, dwarves, and atavians. The remaining races, however, at best are name-dropped in some history tome a couple times. At worst, they hardly even get that much. So m wish would be that if race-locking was to be, the lore for each race would be revised first, establishing a much needed solid base for the more lacking ones. (Sireni and Satyr, specially)  

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

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