The third age of Achaean Newbiedom!

Sena

Saeva said:

When I came as an actual new player... the portals made me want to rip my hair out.
It was so hard to actually learn my way around when there was this fake crossroads with fake entries everywhere.
It -really- got me discombobulated and I loathed the portals. And I really didn't like that the help I got was always "Use your portal and start over".

It's not so bad now. I went through the new intro, and portals are barely mentioned until after you complete the introductory quest, at which point you're probably about halfway through level 10, which means less than half a level until you lose unlimited portals.

Instead, the landmarks system is strongly encouraged, which is a lot better than portals in that regard. You're actually walking around, and can get a sense of where things are in relation to each other and get an idea of distance, instead of just skipping around with portals and sometimes not even realising that areas are connected.

Now portals seem more like an emergency thing, as they should be.

Saeva

That sounds like a really fine implementation.

Skye

Tecton said:

While we appreciate you guys jumping on to try it out, try to be mindful of the poor guides! They've got enough to do figuring out the new intro and helping the newbies without having to deal with people being trolls and/or picking terrible names, even if it's a throwaway character.

But if I use a nice name that uses up the available nice name quota for a while

Besides, I always wanted to be called Dinkbarella

edit: I uh... seem to have broken the prompt. Just once. I dunno how. I don't have a numerical prompt configured. Cause I keep looking at the shiny red healthbar haha. Then when I tried look at the helpfiles (nice pop up window btw), that line of code just appeared. After that it went back to normal.

Tharvis

portals should really stay for those rare occurances a newbie finds a mushroom and gets sent to Bopalopia (I swear I didn't get stuck there as a newb  )

Rohai

This might be just me, but I don't think I would have been able to find Beku if I were actually just starting out. Maybe have one of the guides at least say, "take the highway west and go north when you near Lake Vundemere" rather than just dropping you on the highway without directions?

Nemutaur

Rohai said:

This might be just me, but I don't think I would have been able to find Beku if I were actually just starting out. Maybe have one of the guides at least say, "take the highway west and go north when you near Lake Vundemere" rather than just dropping you on the highway without directions?

The task suggests WALK TO MINIA, so no way they'll get lost really. Even if they wander around thinking they can find it on their own, WALK TO MINIA is always there to help them out.

Kei

Kei used portals twice. At level 5. Then never again.

Edit: This was during Loom Island and pre me using Zmud, so no landmarks or autowalking there.

Personally, I support dropping them, and for the rare occurrences of being lost in Bopalopia you have:

1. Guides, give them the power to rescue off-plane novices.
2. Mentors and House/City novice aides, maybe give them the ability to hear and be heard by novices over NEWBIE no matter what communication barriers are up.
3. Maybe even a NOVICEWATCH, sort of like ARENAWATCH, where they can help guide the newbie home, for one or both of the above.

That's just what I would suggest, though, time and resources permitting.

Cathy

Kei said:

Kei used portals twice. At level 5. Then never again. Edit: This was during Loom Island and pre me using Zmud, so no landmarks or autowalking there. Personally, I support dropping them, and for the rare occurrences of being lost in Bopalopia you have: 1. Guides, give them the power to rescue off-plane novices. 2. Mentors and House/City novice aides, maybe give them the ability to hear and be heard by novices over NEWBIE no matter what communication barriers are up. 3. Maybe even a NOVICEWATCH, sort of like ARENAWATCH, where they can help guide the newbie home, for one or both of the above. That's just what I would suggest, though, time and resources permitting.

All three of those things are in place.

Guides can bring newbies to them, mentors can hear newbies from any plane and guides can watch the newbies if they deem it necessary! (You don't want everyone being able to watch newbies, that would get... wrong.)

Kei

Well. Shows how much I know about Guides these days.

Skye

Here's another one of the wall of text code, this time a little more clearly. It seems this weird ass problem only appears when I attempt to complete a task that requires me to read a helpfile.



Also, I later attempted to configure my prompt but for some reason, I don't have one, not even the neat little - you normally have when you config prompt off. But when I start scrolling up and down the prompt, all my health/mana/etc appears :S It just refuses to be displayed in the current view.

Tecton

Yeah, we're looking into the issue with the client showing backend data when you view a helpfile, hopefully have it fixed up shortly! As for your prompt, it is hidden by default in the client - if you click on the little gear icon in the bottom-right corner, you'll find a slew of options, including showing your prompt.

Skye

Yeah you may want to include that in the task info. It just tells you to config prompt with no mention that the client itself gags it.

Zii

Great work guys.  If I were still a rich man, I'd buy a bunch of credits in appreciation.

So take the thought, its what matters.

Averi

I can't be an ashtani or hashani bard or jester anymore!  

Was this intentional?

Edit: The city based npcs are so cool!! Omg. Rathos called me a worm. :')  And they tattooed me!!  And Cassara is a lichlord!!!!! And Rathos is an Aristrata. This is the best intro ever.

Edit Edit: It feels a lot shorter too which is 82901381093802183974832792 x awesome

Last Edit for this Post: I've always associated Azon and Xanatov with Hashan/Ashtan though. Esp Azon. And not Cyrene.  Etienne/Alexandrian/Ashaela seem more cyrenian based

Achimrst

Kei said:

Kei used portals twice. At level 5. Then never again. Edit: This was during Loom Island and pre me using Zmud, so no landmarks or autowalking there. Personally, I support dropping them, and for the rare occurrences of being lost in Bopalopia you have: 1. Guides, give them the power to rescue off-plane novices. 2. Mentors and House/City novice aides, maybe give them the ability to hear and be heard by novices over NEWBIE no matter what communication barriers are up. 3. Maybe even a NOVICEWATCH, sort of like ARENAWATCH, where they can help guide the newbie home, for one or both of the above. That's just what I would suggest, though, time and resources permitting.

I say trial by Minia! Give them a portal exit to there and force them to find a way out!

Sena

Averi said:

I can't be an ashtani or hashani bard or jester anymore!  

Was this intentional?

It goes by what the houses in that city accept. Ashtan and Hashan don't have any houses that accept bards for example, so those cities aren't listed as options when starting out as a bard.

Nemutaur said:

Rohai said:

This might be just me, but I don't think I would have been able to find Beku if I were actually just starting out. Maybe have one of the guides at least say, "take the highway west and go north when you near Lake Vundemere" rather than just dropping you on the highway without directions?

The task suggests WALK TO MINIA, so no way they'll get lost really. Even if they wander around thinking they can find it on their own, WALK TO MINIA is always there to help them out.

And once you get to Minia there's even WALK TO PYGMIES (which you're told to use), so you're taken right to the entrance to Miba and don't have far to go to find Beku. And then in the task that tells you about the newbie channel, the example (and clickable so you can ask it without typing it) message is asking for help finding Beku. I think real newbies are given plenty of help with that part.

Suladan

From a UI perspective when using the HTML5 client for the intro, the line-wrap is all messed up on SKILLS, WARES, etc. Also you get a bunch of popup windows to explain things, which are really helpful, but when you close them you lost focus and start typing commands into nothingness for a bit until you reselect the command field. (Plus the code output after certain help scrolls which was already mentioned). 

Only other thing I could suggest is that many of the skills scrolls don't specify that most of the attack skills can't be used against denizens. I forgot all about this, but remembered when going through the intro that when I was new I was saving up lessons to get certain attacks and skills and was then dumbfounded that they "didn't work."

Overall though, I think it's awesome! By the time you get through the initial questing up to level 10 you're familiar with your class bashing skill, can navigate around, understand lankmarks, tattoos, basic interaction, and are grooved into the task system which you can follow along for a while learning about all sorts of things - and all on a great gradient. You even feel like the "adventurers" that get you started are friends. This is unquestionably the best intro system so far or anywhere. Major kudos to all involved in putting it together.

Cynlael

@Skye you have far too many unread emails.

Wynedere

I have to say that I really enjoyed this intro. It is, by far, the best I've encountered. Aside from a few small bugs, I had a good time. It was a bit lengthy, but that was mostly due to bugs. Very well done.

Rohai

Welp that just goes to show how completely oblivious I am, haha. Didn't even notice the landmark suggestion.

Ziel

Something I noticed a few minutes ago.  In the introduction, you can't join Eleusis as a Runewarden.  I'm not sure if this is a bug or not?

Skye

By the way, will you be adding more artwork to the intro? Like for classes and cities.

Kyrra

I found the intro trial immensely enjoyable and very indepth while still covering the basics. Parts of the trial do seem longer but that would be reflecting on just how fast you could breeze through the previous one.

I had lots of fun interacting with Dirax and Nima, who I've always been curious about since they turned up in Fire & Spice, and I managed to break the pygmies! Yay for contributing to making stuff better.

About the only thing that I'm slightly bothered with is the half immersion into the "real world". In the AMBLOG a new person to the city is on the logs, and I experienced Ambassador aides asking me every five minutes if I wanted to join a House while trying to complete the Cultist part of the trial. At this point, I felt pressured to rush through the rest of the what needed to be done so people would leave me alone, because someone asking me repeatedly, "Are you done yet?" is kind of rude and for completely new people to Achaea, could be overwhelming.

Is completing the Miba/Cultist tasks mandatory for progression or is it something that can be skipped by people that are just creating alts? If it is mandatory, I would really suggest on having people hold off on jumping on novices until they see the city announce that they've completed the tasks. Both announcements are in the AMBLOG for reference, so you can easily see who is new and who is ready to progress onto choosing a House.

Rispok

Kyrra said:

Ambassador aides in Ashtan are stupid.

This doesn't sound like a problem with the intro, but with the ambassador aides.

Aelyn

The intro does seem very interactive and covers a lot of things! It is a little longer if you decide to run through all of the tasks, but not so bad if you dive straight into gaining Level 10. 

My biggest concern was the period of time between obtaining Level 10 and finishing the Great Rock escapade. At Level 10, they gain tasks 53 and 63 to use lessons and improve their skills. And it seems, you must complete those two tasks to move on in the Great Rock storyline. However, they're given no guidance on what to learn and don't have the benefit of a House yet. This gives them the potential to learn 170 lessons of Inkmilling and calling it good. I know they can forget skills under level 30, but it's still a not fun conversation. Possible alternatives could be:

1) Delay introducing those two tasks until Cultist/Great Rock tasks are over, and they receive the prompt to consider a House (or stay rogue)

2) Give them 10 extra lessons, and specifically instruct them in Task 53 to Learn 10 Survival from their city tutor. This with both give them Survey and complete the two tasks.

Maybe that would also alleviate some of the over-enthusiastic behavior that Kyrra is describing? There just seems to be a lot of potential to learn skills in a wonky way, if joining a House isn't even mentioned before learning some skills is required.

@Averi - I know what you mean. The Druid character is a Stormcrow, and I was like "Wut, that's a Sent family". But all still Eleusis, I guess.

Kuy

Oh wait. There are tasks for the cultists? Those never showed up for me. Maybe that's because I have three unfinished Minia/Lodi tasks?

[Deleted User]

Some thoughts on the new intro:

1) Very good job on the intro. I actually learned some new things from it, like how you can taste and smell things

2) The intro is very comprehensive and quite self-contained which is great for newbies who are not in a city or playing at off-peak hours.

3) Quite a number of the teething problems have been taken away for newbies such as their gear and getting started on their actual skills. It's always so frantic for me when I have a BM novice on my hands, I can't decide if it should be sword first or skill first, or something else becomes sometimes after getting through their intro, they hang around for 20 minutes and then say "I gotta go" and qq before you can finish setting them up. Now they can get themselves set up in their own time.


Now for some (hopefully) constructive criticism:

The intro may be almost too self-contained (look at the sheer number of tasks involved in it!). I took my time going through it and I think it still took me the better part of an hour or two. Somebody in the thread complained that they were getting repeatedly bombarded by Ambassador aides during the tour, in Targossas we've already been briefed to leave the newbies alone until they are announced on CT.

I haven't managed to snag an orientation with one of these new newbies (then again, not sure how many of them are just alts testing out the new trial!), but I already have the feeling that these newbies will be much more independent and more likely to just go off and do their own thing and at the same time some aides are probably going to be thinking the same thing and less attention is going to be paid. I really think there could be a better way of working through this without excluding the Ambassador Ministry:

1) Take the opportunity to introduce the newbie to our Ambassadorial aides. It can easily be worked into the city quest. Something like how there are aides to the ambassador around the city who are able to help you get around, then how to check who is around who can do so (AIDES AMBASSADOR, or just list all the online aides by name) So instead of us bombarding them, they have been directed to come to us.

2) Don't let them be exposed on/to CWHO and CT until they have completed the trial. Give them their own city novice channel. The trial is so self-contained (practically spoonfeeding with tips and use of the Landmarks function) that being on CWHO seems practically irrelevant and is very nearly a distraction to them. Especially since apparently they aren't 'announced' or 'ready' for us until they finish the trial in the first place. Keep them off the channels (or just do not officially 'citizen' them) until the trial is complete and then they get auto-escorted to the city tutor or something, for citizening. Alternatively if they have questions, they can ask on the newbie channel and any aide can grab them from there.

Aelyn

Kuy said:

Oh wait. There are tasks for the cultists? Those never showed up for me. Maybe that's because I have three unfinished Minia/Lodi tasks?

Did you go back to Beku after Level10?  I found you could skip some tasks as long as you kept up with the pygmy ones, but then the city mobs give you another set of tasks afterwards that you must complete to move on with the Cultists.

Darovik

Tecton said:

In the near future, we will implement a new "city novicehood" training system that will continue teaching new players about Achaea in a free-form TASKS-based system and bridge the gap between the intro and joining a House. For now, though, when new players finish the intro they are given more tasks and are urged to join a House.

Do you have an ETA for the "city novicehood" training system?  The new introduction was added to the game literally the day after I first began playing, and now I feel like I should re-roll.  I don't want the same thing to happen again, i.e. I finish the new introduction and proceed on my merry way, and then the very next day the new "city novicehood" training system is introduced.  So, I might just wait to re-roll until the newest system is introduced, unless it won't happen for a very long time.

Tecton

We're planning to start rolling out to the different cities in the next couple of weeks, all going to plan.