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  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    This question is mostly for the admins: does ammolite exist in Achaea, and can I craft with it? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammolite
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    Ammonites & prehistoric stuff don't exist so probably no

    Achaea has nautiluses tho so you could probably spin something out of nautilus shells/nacre
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Dupre said:
    Ammonites & prehistoric stuff don't exist so probably no

    Achaea has nautiluses tho so you could probably spin something out of nautilus shells/nacre
    Huh, really? We have amber, though, and I could swear I've seen petrified wood around.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    Yeah but those can exist just from generic trees ... ancient or really really old ones. And re: amber specifically, some living trees in achaea have "beads of amber" on them so that's not even necessarily an ancient thing here

    Ammolite would require a whole new animal - ammonites - existing, you can't design stuff out of dinosaur bones for example
  • KeorinKeorin
    I'd bet you could do something like "fossilised nacre," even if you can't use the specific term.
  • DupreDupre M.
    Welp apparently this was an approved customisation 3 years ago so you can try your luck with the design team I guess:

    a tigerwood and ammolite quarterstaff

    The base of this enormous, six-foot-long quarterstaff is crafted of exotic-looking 
    tigerwood. Thickly coated with clear, high-gloss shellac, the wet look of the marbled, 
    chatoyant grain creates a golden, metallic shimmer against the darker portions of the 
    striped timber. This creates a striking three-dimensional appearance to the grain, not 
    unlike a tiger's eye gemstone. A fossilised chunk of rainbow ammolite spouts like tree sap 
    from the top of the staff, flowing into a twisty and gnarled hook. Ringing the joint where 
    the ammolite meets the tigerwood is a thick, rose gold band. Thin, filigree rose gold wire 
    is twisted around the metal ring, and a rainbow-coloured music note is threaded upon it. 
    The painted ornament clatters against the wood with each subtle motion, creating a 
    reticient chime. The same hue of gold glints along the wooden midsection of the staff. 
    Pressed into the tri-coloured wood are hieroglyphs honouring the many druid morphs, with 
    the largest one a stylised carving of a hydra with its heads surging and hungry. The 
    gemstone core of the staff pulses with energy and captured sunlight, imbuing everything in 
    its vicinity with a vivid rainbow chroma. The effect is not unlike a heartbeat, throbbing 
    with life and hinting that this staff is thriving and still connected to Nature.
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Awesome, thanks. 
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited December 2018
    Does the typo command work on player-created designs?

    Also, if I designed a sleeveless shirt before 'reveal arms' was a thing, how can I get the arms revealed? (I tried resubmitting it a long time ago after the change went through, and they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.) I know that when hoods became a thing, raise/lower hood worked on all my previous hooded designs, so might just have been an oversight.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    Typo command does indeed work for player designs, and you should be able to ISSUE ME for the other thing to just get the original design changed.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    edited December 2018
    Jiraishin said:
    they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.

    This is the second design I've heard of being rejected due to needing a comma between adjectives, something which previously passed muster with no issues.  Is there's some underlying reason for this requirement?

    As I understand it, black cotton shirt is grammatically acceptable since it refers to the colour of the material. i.e. the cotton is black, therefore the shirt is black (and vice versa). It is understood in the reading. The additional comma just looks jarring to everyone who reads it. 


  • CaelanCaelan
    Skye said:
    Jiraishin said:
    they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.

    This is the second design I've heard of being rejected due to needing a comma between adjectives, something which previously passed muster with no issues.  Is there's some underlying reason for this requirement?

    As I understand it, black cotton shirt is grammatically acceptable since it refers to the colour of the material. i.e. the cotton is black, therefore the shirt is black (and vice versa). It is understood in the reading. The additional comma just looks jarring to everyone who reads it. 
    You know all those times people don't use Harvard commas?  Yeah,  REVENGE, IS, BEST, SERVED, COLD, YO,.

  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Skye said:
    Jiraishin said:
    they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.

    This is the second design I've heard of being rejected due to needing a comma between adjectives, something which previously passed muster with no issues.  Is there's some underlying reason for this requirement?

    As I understand it, black cotton shirt is grammatically acceptable since it refers to the colour of the material. i.e. the cotton is black, therefore the shirt is black (and vice versa). It is understood in the reading. The additional comma just looks jarring to everyone who reads it. 
    To be fair, the resubmit was -also- rl years ago at this point. But yes, 'a black cotton shirt' ought to be acceptable.

    Also @Dupre , I saw this today in Yggdrasil... there is prehistoric amber, and prehistoric animals to go along with it, apparently. Which is actually pretty cool to me.

    Amber-coated Yggdrasil.
    Stunning amber blankets the locale in a golden sheen, the product of countless
    lifetimes of growth marrying every sepia tone from flaxen gold eddies to
    near-black streaks of umber. When the gleaming celestial bodies overhead
    irradiate the resin, long-frozen beings are revealed below. Monstrous insects
    and the skeletons of forgotten mammals are trapped in their last poses; frozen
    in a final attempt to make their escape. The interspaced sap warps their image,
    causing them to appear gargantuan from some angles and no bigger than a leaf
    from others, hiding their true identity from study.

    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    "Black cotton shirt" is correct

    The comma replaces what would be an "and" in the phrase

    "Black cotton shirt" is right because you would -not- say "a black -and- cotton shirt"

    "Short, lovely skirt" is right because you -would- say "a short -and- lovely skirt"
  • LaedhaLaedha
    Skye said:
    Jiraishin said:
    they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.

    This is the second design I've heard of being rejected due to needing a comma between adjectives, something which previously passed muster with no issues.  Is there's some underlying reason for this requirement?

    As I understand it, black cotton shirt is grammatically acceptable since it refers to the colour of the material. i.e. the cotton is black, therefore the shirt is black (and vice versa). It is understood in the reading. The additional comma just looks jarring to everyone who reads it. 
    I sent an email about that exact thing and have had multiple designs rejected for needing commas that are not necessary. I was told that "a ruffled coral swimming dress" needs a comma. Somebody reviewing designs thinks that all chained adjectives before nouns need commas and they do not. Cumulative adjectives that follow correct adjective order don't take commas, and that doesn't differ between American and British English. It's really frustrating. 
  • DupreDupre M.
    Also @Dupre , I saw this today in Yggdrasil... there is prehistoric amber, and prehistoric animals to go along with it, apparently. Which is actually pretty cool to me.

    Amber-coated Yggdrasil.
    Stunning amber blankets the locale in a golden sheen, the product of countless
    lifetimes of growth marrying every sepia tone from flaxen gold eddies to
    near-black streaks of umber. When the gleaming celestial bodies overhead
    irradiate the resin, long-frozen beings are revealed below. Monstrous insects
    and the skeletons of forgotten mammals are trapped in their last poses; frozen
    in a final attempt to make their escape. The interspaced sap warps their image,
    causing them to appear gargantuan from some angles and no bigger than a leaf
    from others, hiding their true identity from study.

    That's cool

    While the planet of Achaea proper never had anything prehistoric, I guess yggdrasil and its new planes and planets opens up "extraterrestrial" materials to possibly work with
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    edited December 2018
    Laedha said:
    Skye said:
    Jiraishin said:
    they wanted me to change "a black cotton shirt" to "a black, cotton shirt" on the new version and I hate it.

    This is the second design I've heard of being rejected due to needing a comma between adjectives, something which previously passed muster with no issues.  Is there's some underlying reason for this requirement?

    As I understand it, black cotton shirt is grammatically acceptable since it refers to the colour of the material. i.e. the cotton is black, therefore the shirt is black (and vice versa). It is understood in the reading. The additional comma just looks jarring to everyone who reads it. 
    I sent an email about that exact thing and have had multiple designs rejected for needing commas that are not necessary. I was told that "a ruffled coral swimming dress" needs a comma. Somebody reviewing designs thinks that all chained adjectives before nouns need commas and they do not. Cumulative adjectives that follow correct adjective order don't take commas, and that doesn't differ between American and British English. It's really frustrating. 
    Incidentally, because I didn't ask about this originally, but were the additional commas requested for the item 'appearance'/short desc as well as 'examined'? Because our previous standard of formatting had designs returned for placing commas in the appearance. IIRC the previous instruction was to, in so far as possible, avoid placing commas in the short desc because of how they appeared in your inventory, room, or when people looked at you.

    They didn't want your items appearing like: she is wearing a blue, cotton dress, a bright, yellow hairclip, fluffy, knee length socks, and a crocheted shawl. 




  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    It was the appearance. A black, cotton shirt. 
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • LaedhaLaedha
    I got one rejection telling me to put a comma in the appearance/short_desc, which I know is against crafting guidelines so I rolled my eyes a lot and just resubmitted it as is two weeks later and it went through. I gone another rejection later on a different item telling me that because the appearance would need a comma, and commas are not allowed, I would have to find a new way to write the appearance. (I've seen multiple rejections like this from people in my house.) 

    I definitely agree that commas shouldn't be allowed in the appearance because it creates confusion when reading lists of items people are wearing. I just think the reviewers should be more restrained when rejecting for multiple adjectives because all they're doing is forcing people into less concise appearance fields. People end up tossing the second adjective into a prepositional phrase after the main noun instead, so 'a twisted rose gold wedding band' becomes 'a wedding band of twisted rose gold,' which is (I think) inferior. 
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited December 2018
    Actually got to disagree with you on that one. It should either be "a twisted, rose gold wedding band" or "a twisted wedding band of rose gold". "A wedding band of twisted rose gold" is indeed inferior. The bottom line, though, is that 'twisted' refers to the band and not the rose gold, so you need a comma.

    Other than "a black, cotton shirt" the worst appearance I've ever ended up with due to the Crafters' Guild guidelines was "a bracelet of glinting, ruby, sand grains." Those two designs are both from around the same time. It was RL years ago so my memory is fuzzy, but I think there were new guidelines then that might have been tweaked since, and I'm honestly tempted to typo that design in hopes of it being changed. Or ISSUE ME if that would be more efficient. Substandard examined descs are one thing, but I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    Jiraishin said:
    I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    This

    People arguing about what makes an appropriate accent and voice, and I'm over here thinking how ugly and immersion breaking terribly worded designs in shops or on people are

    Like design #17537

    "a snow-white, fur coat, adorned with a story"

    Wtf. Even the 2nd comma is not necessary
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Dupre said:
    Jiraishin said:
    I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    This

    People arguing about what makes an appropriate accent and voice, and I'm over here thinking how ugly and immersion breaking terribly worded designs in shops or on people are

    Like design #17537

    "a snow-white, fur coat, adorned with a story"

    Wtf. Even the 2nd comma is not necessary
    I kind of want to make a crafting guide and post it at some point, pertaining to things that won't keep your design from getting approved but do affect the quality of the results. Sort of like Jurixe's event planning guide, except I'm not famously good at the topic and nobody asked for my opinion about it.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • CaelanCaelan
    Dupre said:
    Jiraishin said:
    I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    This

    People arguing about what makes an appropriate accent and voice, and I'm over here thinking how ugly and immersion breaking terribly worded designs in shops or on people are

    Like design #17537

    "a snow-white, fur coat, adorned with a story"

    Wtf. Even the 2nd comma is not necessary
    Message 900 From: Deletus
    Your design has been rejected because "snow-white," is a name, and, should be, capitalised to Snow-White, as, all proper pronouns.

  • NazihkNazihk
    edited December 2018
    Dupre said:
    "Black cotton shirt" is correct

    The comma replaces what would be an "and" in the phrase

    "Black cotton shirt" is right because you would -not- say "a black -and- cotton shirt"

    "Short, lovely skirt" is right because you -would- say "a short -and- lovely skirt"
    The problem with commas in the shortdesc is that when you LOOK at somebody their clothing is in a list that is separated by commas. So a "short, lovely skirt" ends up looking something like "She is wearing a necklace, a shirt, a bracelet, a short, lovely skirt, and black boots." This looks awful because the tendency of readers is to break that list down like this:

    1. a necklace
    2. a shirt
    3. a bracelet
    4. a short
    5. lovely skirt
    6. black boots.
    This looks awful and it's why short descs should always be phrased to ignore commas. Alternatively, they could use semi-colons to separate the list, which would also solve the problem.

    Anyways, the real problem with "short lovely skirt" is that it doesn't obey the adjective order, which is:
    1. Quantity
    2. Opinion
    3. Size
    4. Age
    5. Shape
    6. Color
    7. Proper identifier/adjective or material
    8. Purpose
    That's why "lovely little old Italian restaurant" works but "old little Italian lovely restaurant" makes you sound like a goddamn madman, and it's why a "short lovely skirt" sounds awkward but a "lovely short skirt" is perfectly fine. 
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Nazihk said:
    Dupre said:
    "Black cotton shirt" is correct

    The comma replaces what would be an "and" in the phrase

    "Black cotton shirt" is right because you would -not- say "a black -and- cotton shirt"

    "Short, lovely skirt" is right because you -would- say "a short -and- lovely skirt"
    The problem with commas in the shortdesc is that when you LOOK at somebody their clothing is in a list that is separated by commas. So a "short, lovely skirt" ends up looking something like "She is wearing a necklace, a shirt, a bracelet, a short, lovely skirt, and black boots." This looks awful because the tendency of readers is to break that list down like this:

    1. a necklace
    2. a shirt
    3. a bracelet
    4. a short
    5. lovely skirt
    6. black boots.
    This looks awful and it's why short descs should always be phrased to ignore commas. Alternatively, they could use semi-colons to separate the list, which would also solve the problem.

    Anyways, the real problem with "short lovely skirt" is that it doesn't obey the adjective order, which is:
    1. Quantity
    2. Opinion
    3. Size
    4. Age
    5. Shape
    6. Color
    7. Proper identifier/adjective
    8. Purpose
    That's why you "lovely little old Italian restaurant" works but "old little Italian lovely restaurant" makes you sound like a goddamn madman, and it's why a "short lovely skirt" sounds awkward but a "lovely short skirt" is perfectly fine. 
    I'd note that the adjective order thing works in -most- cases but is not a hard-and-fast rule, and that "lovely, short skirt" is still correct over "lovely short skirt". 

    Short descs should not -always- be phrased to ignore commas. When possible, yes. But I have "a sleeveless, sea-green dress" in my nds list and no particular regrets about it. While the comma separator for items is a major reason for keeping commas out of short descs, you -can- slip an occasional one in without it looking terrible or mixing people up. Just the occasional one, mind you.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    Nazihk said:
    The problem with commas in the shortdesc is that when you LOOK at somebody their clothing is in a list that is separated by commas. So a "short, lovely skirt" ends up looking something like "She is wearing a necklace, a shirt, a bracelet, a short, lovely skirt, and black boots."

    config clothesline on
  • LaedhaLaedha
    Jiraishin said:
    Actually got to disagree with you on that one. It should either be "a twisted, rose gold wedding band" or "a twisted wedding band of rose gold". "A wedding band of twisted rose gold" is indeed inferior. The bottom line, though, is that 'twisted' refers to the band and not the rose gold, so you need a comma.

    Other than "a black, cotton shirt" the worst appearance I've ever ended up with due to the Crafters' Guild guidelines was "a bracelet of glinting, ruby, sand grains." Those two designs are both from around the same time. It was RL years ago so my memory is fuzzy, but I think there were new guidelines then that might have been tweaked since, and I'm honestly tempted to typo that design in hopes of it being changed. Or ISSUE ME if that would be more efficient. Substandard examined descs are one thing, but I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    Nope. Shape comes before color and material in the order of adjectives (the one @Nazihk posted), so it doesn't take a comma. Would you also put a comma in "a thick yellow rope?" Those examples are exactly the same and it doesn't have to do with whether or not twisted refers to the band or to the gold. Not to try to throw credentials around to shut people down without debate, but I'm an English teacher with a literature degree and 6 graduate hours in grammar and usage. That example does not require a comma. 


  • DupreDupre M.
    edited December 2018
    Yes I would comma "a thick, yellow rope" because that says "a thick AND yellow rope"

    Whereas you would not say "a twisted AND rose gold wedding band", so no comma (You WOULD say "a twisted, yellow wedding band")

    Rose gold is a noun adjunct while yellow is staunchly an adjective so they will not necessarily be treated comparibly
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Dupre said:
    Nazihk said:
    The problem with commas in the shortdesc is that when you LOOK at somebody their clothing is in a list that is separated by commas. So a "short, lovely skirt" ends up looking something like "She is wearing a necklace, a shirt, a bracelet, a short, lovely skirt, and black boots."

    config clothesline on
    That's a pretty drastic solution. Adventurers wear a -lot- of clothes. You'd have to scroll up to see all of them in some cases, let alone their description or anything else that's happening.

    He is wearing:
     a durable suit of eastern scale mail
     a black sniper's jacket
     a black cotton shirt
     comfortable black trousers
     a belt of sturdy black leather
     black military boots
     dashing black gloves
     a clawed gauntlet
     a silver bow-and-arrow brooch
     a clawed gauntlet
     an amulet of lustrous argentine hues
    Weapon holders:
     a serpentine thigh scabbard
     a studded leather baldric
     an ebon quiver with silvery accents
     a slender wrist sheath of black and gold
     a scorched bone sheath
     a steel chain backstrap
     a beltloop of bone shards
     a dragonbone scabbard
     a fluvial silver belthook
    Containers:
     a wyvernskin pack
     a polished glass scroll case
     a softened leather combat satchel
     a black knapsack
     a sleek velvet pouch
    Jewellery:
     2 earrings of Sinope through your left ear
    Misc:
     an amulet of heroism
     a threatening, miasmic essence
     an ivory-inlaid portrait locket
     a yellowed war horn of cracked ivory
     a pair of eagle's wings
     a shimmering orange fire opal pendant of burnished gold

    ...And that's with the armband and the resist rings hidden.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • DupreDupre M.
    I assumed by "readers" he meant screenreaders
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    Laedha said:
    Jiraishin said:
    Actually got to disagree with you on that one. It should either be "a twisted, rose gold wedding band" or "a twisted wedding band of rose gold". "A wedding band of twisted rose gold" is indeed inferior. The bottom line, though, is that 'twisted' refers to the band and not the rose gold, so you need a comma.

    Other than "a black, cotton shirt" the worst appearance I've ever ended up with due to the Crafters' Guild guidelines was "a bracelet of glinting, ruby, sand grains." Those two designs are both from around the same time. It was RL years ago so my memory is fuzzy, but I think there were new guidelines then that might have been tweaked since, and I'm honestly tempted to typo that design in hopes of it being changed. Or ISSUE ME if that would be more efficient. Substandard examined descs are one thing, but I can't expect people to buy a design with an obviously flawed appearance.
    Nope. Shape comes before color and material in the order of adjectives (the one @Nazihk posted), so it doesn't take a comma. Would you also put a comma in "a thick yellow rope?" Those examples are exactly the same and it doesn't have to do with whether or not twisted refers to the band or to the gold. Not to try to throw credentials around to shut people down without debate, but I'm an English teacher with a literature degree and 6 graduate hours in grammar and usage. That example does not require a comma. 


    Firstly, the usage order isn't the issue here-- twisted should come before 'rose gold', but it should also take a comma. 
    Secondly, 'rose gold' isn't color and material, just material: rose gold is a type of gold. Because 'rose gold' is essentially a two-word adjective (where 'rose' modifies 'gold' but not 'band') this design is in particular need of a comma between 'twisted' and 'rose gold' to make it clear that that 'twisted' is not just another modifier on 'gold'. The problem could be avoided by moving 'rose gold' to the first space... but then that creates a -new- problem of usage order.
    Thirdly, being technically grammatically correct is not the only requirement for good usage. 
    Fourthly, either "a thick yellow rope" or "a thick, yellow rope" would be correct... but I would actually lean towards the latter, to make it clear that 'thick' modifies 'rope' and not 'yellow'.

    Finally, I'm a professional editor. Nice to meet you.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
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