...So why is there still XP loss in this game?

Shirszae

Valdus said:

I HATE the fact they removed XP loss and such from Imperian.

I will ABSOLUTELY quit playing Achaea if they ever remove it here.

I would be all in favor of xp loss being removed, but only if it was replaced with something much more rewarding. The problem is that so many ideas sound absolutely awesome on paper. But after the 3252623623th time, almost everything overly complicated becomes a drag. Specially when sometimes people die over and over and over in a short amount of time.

Nim

@Aepas: Some counter arguments:

1. Some people take the loss way too seriously, and get frustrated by it. That's the nature of consequences, and it's ultimately unavoidable without just removing consequences altogether (which, in turn, makes for a rather boring roleplaying game!), but it's still a factor you should consider when designing consequences, if that makes sense!
2. Experience loss on death is not always that much of a penalty. Low level characters take considerably less time to recover from experience loss, and I believe it's capped, so dragons tend to be in the same position. I feel like level 80ish characters suffer the most from it, which brings me to my next point.
3. Experience loss from death involves applying a PvE penalty to PvPers. Yeah, you can get the EXP back from PvP too, but efficient experience gain is more within the realm of PvE than PvP. Why should I be forced to go bash up places just because I like PvP? I hate PvE. It's boring. Don't make me do it. I don't want to!
4. It also discourages anything but safe PvE, which in turn makes PvE boring as per above. I'd rather hunt things that have a realistic chance of killing me - it's fun! But... it also invariably ends up costing me as much EXP as I gain. Boring!

That said, I'm probably unable to agree with your basic argument to begin with, since I've never seen EXP loss as gratifying. It's always been an accepted cost or a mild disappointment. I mean, I like consequences, it's just, losing EXP feels kinda weak and semi-OOC as far as consequences go. Like, wow, you killed me and now I might want to kill other things to recover from it, or maybe I won't because I don't care enough to.

I mean, I guess I'll have to avoid dying the estimated 52 times in a row it'd take to lose Logosian, because I'd hate to have to regain that, but that's about it!

Ruth

Eld said:

Daeir said:

I remember a very long time ago that once you died, you had to navigate through some world and complete a small quest instead of embracing death. Is that another IRE game, or is it Achaea? I honestly can't remember.

There was a MUD I played back in high school where when you died, you had to walk around as a soul and find an item to take back to a priest to resurrect you. No idea if any of the IRE games ever did that, though.

Surprise! It's Imperian.

Mishgul

People notice xp loss?

Eld

Mishgul said:

People notice xp loss?

I noticed when my deaths balanced out my bashing for gold.

Aktillum

OP is looking at this all the wrong way. He sees death as a setback to his text-life. I see it as an excuse to make IRL improvements. How long is praying to Thoth? Like, 5 mins? You can do a lot of pushups in 5 minutes. Take part in raids and I guarantee you'll see IRL gains in like a month.

Mishgul

My fitness plan!

Shibumi

Tesha said:

One of the reasons Dark Souls and Demon's Souls were so popular is because they were difficult. The complexity in the Call of Duty era is simply non-existant, and that enables a pick-up-and-play with an extremely low entry barrier. Dark Souls and Demon's Souls were popular because they were crushingly difficult and had a higher entry barrier, and required a lot more thought and effort. 

@Tesha this is absolutely correct in my opinion. I admit that being killed by a Gnoll if the connection drops really sucks XP wise. In my opinion, this is the only element that might be addressed, if any. Thankfully, this does not happen that much. 

However, good games are supposed to be challenging and thrilling. I still have to finish DS and I assure you that it is one of the greatest games ever. Also, a couple of days ago I was killed by someone for earlier participating in a raid in Achaea. It sucked, but it added depth to the gaming experience. You are never safe. 

Athrax

I'm so confused right now.  Is Jarrod's idea happening or not?

Silas

How did this thread reach three pages?

Dunn

I have two of six Atlatls, fyi.

STOP ACCUSING ME!

Okay, I had four, but the grief was strong.

Borran

if xp loss is deleted, logosian and dragon should also be. And we should no longer get lessons and credits for leveling. If you take away the risk, you should take away the reward as well. Nothing is ever gained without risk.

Fitz

Since part of the concern seems to be that people avoid interaction for fee of losing xp from dying, at least according to some of the earlier posts....why not introduce xp loss for sitting to long in cities....

Strata

Aktillum said:

OP is looking at this all the wrong way. He sees death as a setback to his text-life. I see it as an excuse to make IRL improvements. How long is praying to Thoth? Like, 5 mins? You can do a lot of pushups in 5 minutes. Take part in raids and I guarantee you'll see IRL gains in like a month.

One could get a lot of cardio if they performed socially unacceptable dance moves after getting tremolo'd. Even if you don't die - just get up and start dancing as soon as tremolo hits. You're going to be dead anyway so might as well get a head start. Bonus points if you yodle "Noobs gonna tremolo" at full volume while dancing.

Kiusha

We should probably make a distinction here between dying from denizens during hunting, and dying through adventurer combat.

Concerning the first, and speaking as someone who has stacked up quite a few deaths to denizens, also because of a lot of connection issues when I was around level 50, I have to say that the fear of death really adds to the flavour of the hunt, especially when taking on challenging opponents. It also helps with IC considerations of which opponents are out of your league, making for richer roleplay than just going with trial and error. It may seem like a good idea to take away the risk, but it will end up leaving the game emptier for it.

As far as involvement in PvP is concerned, I think the currently existing distinction between defense and offense is a good one. When you live in a city which is suddenly attacked, it makes sense from a roleplay perspective that you take up arms to defend your home and band together. It makes a lot less sense though to go raiding another city into a certain death: "Are you crazy, they'll kill me on sight!". Therefore, no XP loss on defending your home, but definitely XP loss on attacking. An exception could maybe be made for times of actual war, but other than that the actual risk may prevent some people from taking part, but that ties in logically to any IC fear their characters experience.

Thankfully, not everyone in Achaea suffers from recklessness, as that would be everything but realistic.

Santar

Daeir said:

I remember a very long time ago that once you died, you had to navigate through some world and complete a small quest instead of embracing death. Is that another IRE game, or is it Achaea? I honestly can't remember.

Do I get to train on King Kai's planet and learn the Spirit Bomb technique?

Daklore

But... you need to be pure of heart to learn that technique!

Sarapis

Strata said:

Aktillum said:

OP is looking at this all the wrong way. He sees death as a setback to his text-life. I see it as an excuse to make IRL improvements. How long is praying to Thoth? Like, 5 mins? You can do a lot of pushups in 5 minutes. Take part in raids and I guarantee you'll see IRL gains in like a month.

One could get a lot of cardio if they performed socially unacceptable dance moves after getting tremolo'd. Even if you don't die - just get up and start dancing as soon as tremolo hits. You're going to be dead anyway so might as well get a head start. Bonus points if you yodle "Noobs gonna tremolo" at full volume while dancing.

Anedhel

Sarapis

Athrax

Fitz said:

Since part of the concern seems to be that people avoid interaction for fee of losing xp from dying, at least according to some of the earlier posts....why not introduce xp loss for sitting to long in cities....

@Fitz - except... those are the same people that don't mind engaging in activities likely to cause death.   I mean... there is a pretty large set of people that I basically never see outside of their city unless we're killing or harrassing each other.

Fitz

Nobody gets jokes anymore

Athrax

sadface

Tecton

This thread has gone way off the rails - I'm going to add my own $0.02 before I close it down though:

Comparing Achaean to other (especially graphical) MMOs is very much apples and oranges. With most games, you really don't get to "start" playing the game until you reach max level.

In Achaea, the game begins as soon as you finish the intro, you can do pretty much everything without needing to spend hours bashing up to dragonhood.

Aaaanyways, consider this thread...