Alchemist combat.

Varrorr

They any good? Also, how or why? I find them interesting, but kinda turned off with the lack of overall abilities.

Xli

If you're fighting an alchemist, don't stay in the room with them too long. Oh... wait... alchemists have some of the best hindering available...

Nemutaur

They're not bad, right now they seem to be able to raise your fluid level and shield which is annoying. That will probably get looked at and changed soon though

Dunn

Not enough combatants to make a definitive call on their potency, really.

Santar

Basically a mini-fashion/momentum class.

Personally I think the class is imbalanced, needs to be re-designed. Not sure what I'd change, but right now they're virtually unhinderable and you have to run away to survive. Then if the person does run away they have to eat ginger for like 60 solid seconds to go back into the fight. It's a little silly. Probably not fun for the alchemist either to have people reset their offense like that.

Pretty strong class if you have the awareness to survive.

Not sure about alchemists in groups. Seems like pretty much a support class. I've went over and over their skills with alchemists trying to figure out what they should do in group fights and can't find any decent answer.

Like Dunn said though, there hasn't really been a good alchemist fighter to blow it up so to speak. Mako is the best one I know of and he's only okay.

Jovolo

I'm sure it's overpowered. You can basically off balance keep up fluid increasing offence while shielding, or tentacle'ing, or damaging. They have room hinder. Ridiculous bleed spiking, and ginger/antimony has a laughable affect on fluid levels.

They have decent damage mitigation, active curing and good damage output. The class really needs to be reworked, and truewrack with passive humour effects has a high potential, but eh.

Nobody even plays the class.

Anedhel

Fuck alchemists.

Arador

Either you stick around and die or you run all the time and feel like a prick.

What I would like to see for them is 2 changes.

1. When in the room with the alchemist or being attacked or hindered by the homunculus, ginger and antimonu have a much more potent effect at draining fluid levels.

2. Let alchemist truewrack from the start but with specific afflictions. To wrack a humour and give a blinded affliction the humour must be tempered. So you can truewrack paralysis asthma any time. But you can only truewrack sanguine phlegmatic once both humours are tempered.

Jovolo

It would be nice if you could afflict anything from the humours, but the passive effects and speed (though the base speed really needs increasing) are still decided by which humours are tempered. The only problem with this is that it becomes even more unfeasible to prevent Reave if the Alchemist is decent with defence while also increasing the risk of being bled out by sanguine with haemophilia and sensitive stacking.

The class is just really promising but not very well designed. I also don't feel comfortable or arrogant enough with proposing real redesigning changes. There's also no indication that things are going to change soon, and that doesn't make me too enthusiastic about going the class for cleads. Then all that leaves is... Mako.

Sorry for hijacking the thread anyway. Peace.

Varrorr

@Jovolo It's cool. I'm just really intrigued by them, I'd definitely try it if I could just find more about them. Hopefully Mako will post here.

Strata

Fighting as a serpent against an alchemist is pretty rough. You must constantly leave the room to avoid death, then once you enter the room, maintaining any sort of offense is near impossible because they can just stand there and whore shield while raising your fluid levels again. For classes without evade and such, homunculus block and reflexed tentacle are ridiculous. I like displace though. That is cool.

On the lighter side, alchemist/serpent is a pretty good combo for jumping people. Locks are very quick and easy to attain due to whrack impatience/paralysis and blocking.

And yes, @Mako is possibly one of the best alchemist combatants in Achaea right now - though I don't believe he's reached the point where people start saying "Enough! This is way too f-ing OP." The potential is definitely there though.

Iocun

I always found alchemists close to the easiest opponents to fight.

Anedhel

S'just boring to fight them.

Eld

Iocun said:

I always found alchemists close to the easiest opponents to fight.

Evade helps with that. Though not as much as pre-nerf shin phoenix.

Iocun

I almost never evade against alchemists. I usually go all out offensive.

Mako

Alchemist can be one of the most powerful classes out there, but that is not without flaws. If you simply run away after we temper a humor and eat antimony for a minuet or so we have to start over. There are many skills which making running from an alchemist easy. Evade, astralform, raido, blackwind, mounjump, leap, backflip, deliverance, a portal, earrings, duanathar, and the ever popular gare. Alchemist is all based on momentum of tempering your opponent, and not using too much fluid to afflict with else you will have to start all over. This gives the enemy ample time to attempt to leave the room. Icewall, throw a monolith, and TUMBLE people its not so hard to get away from me. My first objective in a fight is hinder you completly. Homunculi cannot fly, or follow when I mountjump. Alchemist is a pretty unique class but I don't think its broken or unbalanced. Considering a preped limb lasts forever. Some classes will always be better against certain classes, and thats just Achaea. 

Mizik

It's Obliterate with an unreasonable decay, you drunk, bro.

Omito

Coming from a BM to a Alchemist has been a fairly fun change. While there is an ass load of infomation (and scripts) for a BM there is practically nothing on how to properly run train with a Alchemist. For me that is one of the most exciting things about them! I'm as newb as newb can be when it comes to Achea combat but my past mudding experience taught me to embrace the underplayed classes. Sometimes they are underplayed for a reason, but more often than not the key to victory just isn't as obvious. I can't say with any certainly if a alchemist in the grand scheme of things will be a good combat class, but I am excited to find out!

Dorn

Omito said:

Coming from a BM to a Alchemist has been a fairly fun change. While there is an ass load of infomation (and scripts) for a BM there is practically nothing on how to properly run train with a Alchemist. For me that is one of the most exciting things about them! I'm as newb as newb can be when it comes to Achea combat but my past mudding experience taught me to embrace the underplayed classes. Sometimes they are underplayed for a reason, but more often than not the key to victory just isn't as obvious. I can't say with any certainly if a alchemist in the grand scheme of things will be a good combat class, but I am excited to find out!

Fun fact - this is basically why I went Blademaster. When I started it was in the same state as Alchemist seems to be in now.

*/derail*

Vayne

I want to get into alchemist combat, or combat at all, I just can't find the time

Hhaos

Alchemist and blademaster is an awesome two person team!

Mizik

I'd rather have any other class to team with.

Even Sylvan Blackout Impales gg. Nobody has a minute to temper shit.

Jovolo

Hhaos said:

Alchemist and blademaster is an awesome two person team!

Pretty much better classes that team with a Blademaster:

Apostate, Bard, Druid, Infernal, Jester, Paladin, Priest, Dragon, Occultist, Monk, Shaman, Sylvan, Sentinel, Serpent.

;D

Mako

Mizik said:

I'd rather have any other class to team with. Even Sylvan Blackout Impales gg. Nobody has a minute to temper shit.

in group combat people arnt eating antimony so you can temper 1 humor fairly fast. Alchemists are great to team with

Mako

and Jovolo, quit hating all over alchemists cuz you cant kill them :O

Mako

Iocun said:

I almost never evade against alchemists. I usually go all out offensive.

lol, come on now Iocun

Seftin

Ok fine lets sort this once and for all. @Mizik go alche for 2 days and break it. Will sponsor the changes

Iocun

Mako said:

Iocun said:

I almost never evade against alchemists. I usually go all out offensive.

lol, come on now Iocun

I just checked my logs. We fought three times 1v1 when you were alchemist. Last time I didn't evade or do any other defensive thing at all. Time before that I evaded several times, yes, but you shielded distinctly more often. Time before that, I evaded a single time, with you again shielding lots of times.

Sometimes I evade, sure. That's mostly when I'm hypnoing and can't thus keep up any offence. But I still pretty much always remain much more offensive than the alchemist I'm fighting.

Maybe you were counting the times when you teamed me though - well, yeah, I sometimes get a bit more defensive when I'm in a situation where I can be killed in a couple of seconds if I don't...

Siana

Can someone explain how alchemist combat even works? I know you temper to get to reave or massive bleeding, but I don't understand the steps in between that.

Sable

While I know I'm not the definitive person to talk to for Alchemist combat (except in Cyrene since other than me it pretty much doesn't exist there aside from a few who are just learning it), I do think I can help shed a little light. First, the objective:

We temper humours to add different effects, whilst simultaneously wracking to induce different afflictions. Normally, this is push out massive bleeding, which can lead into aurify (an instant kill if your health and mana are both below 50%). However, this generally ends with the bleeding being the killer, as by the point aurify is possible it's stacking up astronomically. Alternatively, we also have reave, which is a timed instant kill we can use after two humours have been tempered, the time required dropping depending on if the third and fourth humours are tempered. While this can be great, it does require us to stop doing anything at all for the time, so, with an opponent any learned in how it works, it's not the most viable option.

Now onto responding to the posts, starting with Xli's comment on our hindering abilities. We have...well, two: wrack and torso. Wrack gives afflictions, which can be hindering if timed right or just happen to tick right (stupidity). And torso is just what allows our homunculus to stop you from running away. The latter sounds amazing, but there's a problem: it's a chance to stop you from running away; a very high chance, mind you, but still a chance. Not only that, but it only stops a handful of ways to get away. As Mako pointed out, there are a LOT of ways to run that it can't stop (btw, it -can- stop duanathar. Did that a few times to Dunn forever ago in raids), and most people use those instead of just trying to move as they get past walls and other hindering abilities in general. And, once you get away, if we don't catch you quick enough, then we're sol and have to start all over, which is extremely annoying. 

Next is Santar. We can be hindered, it happens to me all the time. And constant resetting of our offense is...a pain. Moving on, I constantly hear that Mako is the best Alchemist combatant around, or is amazingly good, or this, or that, but (and please correct me if I'm wrong, man, I'd love to hear what it is you do that I don't or haven't tried), the only difference I've heard is an arte and Iron.

Now that I've made this way too long, I'll shut up. I've got ideas, gripes, and more than a few things I'd like to see changed a tad (displace being made more useful in single combat, for example). Anybody wanna bug me, please do, preferably in game as I don't watch the forums much, if ever. I'll probably be watching this one for a while, though.

Sable

PS: it only takes like 30 seconds to cure out of two tempered humours once you're away from us. If I don't catch you again within 6 seconds, I consider everything scrapped, as that's usually what happens.