other rogue forestals

Wysteria

@Reihaneh so I've lost whatever IC respect you apparently had for me due to one ooc forum post. I'm fine with that. I'm also guessing you were not present during the who CT argument where it was essentially Gaia vs Cyrene and how we were fighting it out that we should accept not Cyrene's aid to protect Nature because She said so (granted due to canon)? A lot of us were putting Nature first that day over Her words, standing our ground that we should accept help where needed, and it caused someone to get zapped. We still stood our ground.

People do put Nature first, if Gaia said go burn the forests, we will say no. If she says stop harvesting something because it'll screw up the ecosystem, we would probably do it because it's putting Nature first via her orders. Thinking within reason - we're not blind followers. I've been thinking of leaving the entire faction for over a real life year now but I choose to stay because I like helping out where I can with the House etc and a form of mass communication.

Oh by the way this is forum thread where OP was asking if they were other rogue forestals about, not why we think Eleusis is better than everyone else. I still stand that rogues have no issue at all as per my original post to @Alerie.

And to the OP: sorry some people have turned this into a childish playground tussle. It is unfortunately a recurring issue when it comes to Nature things.

Eld

Wysteria said:

And to the OP: sorry some people have turned this into a childish playground tussle. It is unfortunately a recurring issue when it comes to forums.

Trevize

Eld said:

Man, you guys have elections where someone can get 30 votes and lose?

Eld

Trevize said:

Eld said:

Man, you guys have elections where someone can get 30 votes and lose?

That's what I was going to say, but the last Regent election (that started) got ~40, iirc, and we got 20-something for the election where I won HL.

Reihaneh

Wysteria said:

@Reihaneh so I've lost whatever IC respect you apparently had for me due to one ooc forum post. I'm fine with that. I'm also guessing you were not present during the who CT argument where it was essentially Gaia vs Cyrene and how we were fighting it out that we should accept not Cyrene's aid to protect Nature because She said so (granted due to canon)? A lot of us were putting Nature first that day over Her words, standing our ground that we should accept help where needed, and it caused someone to get zapped. We still stood our ground. People do put Nature first, if Gaia said go burn the forests, we will say no. If she says stop harvesting something because it'll screw up the ecosystem, we would probably do it because it's putting Nature first via her orders. Thinking within reason - we're not blind followers. I've been thinking of leaving the entire faction for over a real life year now but I choose to stay because I like helping out where I can with the House etc and a form of mass communication. Oh by the way this is forum thread where OP was asking if they were other rogue forestals about, not why we think Eleusis is better than everyone else. I still stand that rogues have no issue at all as per my original post to @Alerie. And to the OP: sorry some people have turned this into a childish playground tussle. It is unfortunately a recurring issue when it comes to Nature things.

I didn't say I've lost respect for you. You implied in your previous post that you had for me, and that I should act in a way that would earn yours' and others' respect. You have always had my respect, IC and OOC, and I don't see that changing. My point in my previous post was that I don't honestly care whether you or anyone else in the faction respects me anymore (in many cases, I never had a chance at earning some people's respect in the first place). I respect many of you.

Yes, I have been there on the brief occasions when people have defied Gaia.

Anyway, the reason I brought up issues with Eleusis in the first place is because the main response earlier on in the thread seemed to be "well why aren't you just joining Eleusis already? Rogue forestals must not really care about nature if they don't want to be a part of Eleusis." I wasn't trying to air dirty laundry to begin with - you are the one who brought up my departure from the House - I was merely trying to point out that being a rogue forestal is just as valid a choice when it comes to serving Nature as being a member of Eleusis.

There are Eleusians who do nothing for Nature and rogue forestals (and even some non-forestals) who have done a lot for Nature, and vice versa. Personally, I feel that being a rogue forestal should be considered more of a valid RP option than it is now. It's just that the lack of other community options for newer players who choose to go that route make it near impossible.

Penwize

Reihaneh said:

It's just that the lack of other community options for newer players who choose to go that route make it near impossible.

Rogue and community are opposites.  Eleusis' purpose is to be a community for the forestals: it is the forestal community.  What exactly do you want? A second forestal community?

Reihaneh

Penwize said:

Reihaneh said:

It's just that the lack of other community options for newer players who choose to go that route make it near impossible.

Rogue and community are opposites.  Eleusis' purpose is to be a community for the forestals: it is the forestal community.  What exactly do you want? A second forestal community?

I was referring specifically to the fact that forestals can no longer join other cities due to the addition of alchemy. Not that we need a 'second' forestal community, but that forestals are locked out of many organizational options because of changes, both mechanical and cultural, that have taken place within the game over the last several RL years.

Reihaneh

Alerie said:

I think it's possible to love nature and not want to be in a city devoted to it 24/7. I also like to be somewhat independent, so I guess you could chalk it up to a personal choice.

^ this, plus what @Alerie said about the current organizations not appealing to her.

Jacen

There's a big difference between "loving" nature, and being a forestal though. Anybody can enjoy the occasional walk through the woods or swim in a lake. That's not what being a forestal is. Being a forestal is being so in tune with Nature that you can draw upon its power to fuel your magical abilities, whether it be through animal spirits or groves.Being a forestal is directly analogous to being a Devotion or Necromancy user.

Reihaneh

And Devotion and Necromancy users have multiple organization options open to them, depending on their personal RP and inclinations. Forestals do not.

(ETA that is sort of changing now that the Merchants accept forestal classes)

Jacen

Multiple organizations != freedom of roleplay though. You're still very much playing by Targ's or Mhaldor's rules, you just don't get the benefit of being a part of the organization that defines your character. Also, Mhaldor and Targ have the power to completely revoke a skillset of their factional class, where Eleusis does not. Yet.

Shirszae

Jacen said:

Multiple organizations != freedom of roleplay though. You're still very much playing by Targ's or Mhaldor's rules, you just don't get the benefit of being a part of the organization that defines your character. Also, Mhaldor and Targ have the power to completely revoke a skillset of their factional class, where Eleusis does not. Yet.

Eh, I'd argue that multiple organization does in fact equal to some measure of freedom of roleplay. While yes, you have to play by some basic rules from either Mhaldor or Targossas, you still have opportunity to elaborate your character and the reason why he or she chooses to live apart from the main hub of those classes

Penwize

What multiple organizations do apostates or infernals have access to?  Pretty sure they can only join the blood congregation or the maldaathi respectively, which limits them to Mhaldor.  They can be rogue, but will have their abilities removed the instant Mhaldor dislikes them.

Eld

Penwize said:

What multiple organizations do apostates or infernals have access to?  Pretty sure they can only join the blood congregation or the maldaathi respectively, which limits them to Mhaldor.  They can be rogue, but will have their abilities removed the instant Mhaldor dislikes them.

They can be houseless Hashani, technically. Still face anathema if they act against Mhaldor.

Valdus

Valdus is now Eleusian and a Housed Sentinel, so I'm not weighing in on the argument, but it's the same for Devotion users if they go against Targossas. Or if Occultists piss off Babel. I was told there is an Anathema/Excommunication type ability but that Babel has to do it himself.

Point is they CAN still go other places.

Kyrra

There's one or two apostates and infernals in Ashtan too.

Mishgul

Orly. Better fix that

Wysteria

Under no circumstances should Eleusis or even Oakstone be granted the ability to strip a forestal of class skills like Groves/Woodlore/Metamorphosis (Concoctions and Harvesting are a bit ... Not quite major in comparison). I'd prefer Nature to sort that out if it deems a person unworthy of that skill (be it a spiritual disconnect to their charge) but would have to be at an Aepas level where Gaia actively removed something. Mechanically speaking I don't think players should have that kind of power. 

In terms of respects, Reihaneh, sorry I meant respect as a rogue. The few bad eggs I've run across I've been going, "Yeah I get you don't want to be Housed or in a City, that's cool - but for crying out loud what kind of forestal are you to just stand there when there's a bloody fire around you and say it's Oakstone's responsibility therefore Care Factor Zero?" This is even after advising them part of the reason they have the ability to cast rainstorm is to put out fires.

True rogues really do need some kind of network of people to speak with, be it Oakstone or the patrol clan, but they would still be part of some club. If they want to go solo without a single thing on clan list, they'd just have to go for the old style of seeking people out and get talking. Once they know what they're doing it's pretty straightforward really. If you delete Eleusis, I can't imagine much panic happening if we all went rogue. 

Rangor

If Eleusis was deleted we'd have to take over Hashan, break down the walls and toss out the scrubs.

Wysteria

Scrubs aren't leafy? I think of a hedge...

Rangor

Metaphorically speaking!

Rangor

Daeir said:

Shifting Eleusis' population to Hashan and turning the place into an overgrown city-esque thing actually sounds surprisingly awesome.

But we like Eleusis. We'd still lke to overgrow Hashan and turn it into ruins and a part of the NI again though. Could even have creatures of the night/moon roam there for hunting.

Wysteria

Essentially Istarion with a severe lamassu and tengu problem?

Oceana

Rangor said:

Daeir said:

Shifting Eleusis' population to Hashan and turning the place into an overgrown city-esque thing actually sounds surprisingly awesome.

But we like Eleusis. We'd still lke to overgrow Hashan and turn it into ruins and a part of the NI again though. Could even have creatures of the night/moon roam there for hunting.

Rangor

A great improvement to it's current state. If they want, all these rogue forestals can move in and live there.

Oceana

Of course the next stage would be: [spoiler][/spoiler]

(with thanks to @Wysteria for teaching me to spoil.)

Wysteria

Oceana got it working. Test complete!