other rogue forestals

Arditi

Celiana said:

Let's put all the classes back to where they belong. Bards/Runewardens to Cyrene. Serpents/Shamans to Hashan. Priests/Paladins in Shallam Targossas, Infernals/Apostates to Mhaldor, Occultists to Asthan. Everyone else to CIJ!

Oh good, I've wanted to turn Hashan into a Mhaldorian puppet state for about...oh...a week now.

Silas

I really think they should do something with recalling the other classes. I'd be totally fine with Cyrene getting runies/bards and Hashan getting shamans - especially given that it'd eventually require cities to treat with each other for totem maintenance.

Those cities are more than welcome to start advocating that in a serious manner to a point where they get Garden support for it. Factional classes will really help them build an identity beyond 'lol we're here too' as well. Up to them to start if off tho.

Shirszae

I think it would be a rather poor decision for just about every class to start being recalled . It would not make sense for most of the neutral classes to be attached artificially to a city, even if it was the city of their origin. At the very least, a good bit of flavour would need to be changed. 

Silas

Not every class, no - just every class that only had a single guild. Monk, magi, serpent would still be neutral, and jesters and the CIJ would naturally be scrapped.

Shirszae

Alchemists and blademasters as well, no? I don't know. I honestly would not fancy the idea. And I can't see, for example, why bards could only ever thrive in Cyrene. I mean, sure, the guild hails from there. But if anyone could claim control over the class, that would be Scarlatti. And the realm of Scarlatti is basically as unaligned as unaligned goes. Which is fitting, really.

Silas

Scarlatti has aligned himself with Cyrene, and Cyrene is the city with the strongest devotion to the arts.

Alch/bm would be neutral too (except no alchs in Eleusis obv), yeah.

Shirszae

It might just be me, but I see Scarlatti and his relationship with Cyrene as further proof of his alignment with neutrality. Cyrene just happens to be the most neutral of cities, and as such a natural haven for the arts. But that does not means Cyrene is the only place where art can (or should) be found. 

I don't know. I suppose he could throw a tantrum or something. But as it stands currently, it would make no sense whatsoever. To me, at least. *shrugs*

Silas

Art isn't limited to the bard class. I'm all for restrictions that can help cities identify themselves to the outside world, and I think giving Cyrene bards and runies would really help them. Likewise for Hashan with shamans.

Mhaldor, Shallam/Targossas and Eleusis, and to a lesser extent Ashtan with Occies since Babel's return, have all benefitted hugely from this over the years. I think denying the other two cities that chance is silly.

Shirszae

It worked in Mhaldor/Targossas/Eleusis/Ashtan because those cities had firm ideals already. The classes were tied firmly to such ideals, and in the end it felt natural for the classes to be recalled back. Cyrene and Hashan don't really have that. Or, well, sure. Hashan 'has' ideals. But are they  really tied to shamans in the same way that Apostasy is tied to Evil, or Devotion is tied to Good? I don't think so. 

In the case of Cyrene and bards, it would be even more nebulous.

But whatever, its horribly late and I should have been asleep since... like four hours ago.

Celiana

I'd actually voice yes on the shaman question. All this time, to me, Hashan and the Night have all been about using anything that would further Hashani/Night interests -- no matter what that might be. If you want to help others, good, but make sure it won't harm Hashan. Same goes if you want to flay some people.

In parallel, shamans channel all sorts of spirits, benevolent or not. It doesn't matter, as long as the shaman achieves what he/she wants to achieve. That's why Hashan and the shamans go so well together (in my perspective).

Vastus

They go well together, so they are allowed in Hashan. That is no reason to not allow them in another city, I think they fit well in nearly every city as they are fairly neutral and you can give your own spin to it to make it fit.

Averi

Shirszae said:

I think it would be a rather poor decision for just about every class to start being recalled . It would not make sense for most of the neutral classes to be attached artificially to a city, even if it was the city of their origin. At the very least, a good bit of flavour would need to be changed. 

But it would be funny! 

Anedhel

Eh, Cyrene'd never give enough of a shit/be willing to work hard enough to make factionalization of Runewardens (let alone bards) possible. Shame, though. It'd be interesting.

Mishgul

I think people are too caught up in annoyingly enunciating their roleplay they forget to care about how to make a more interactive environment in this multiplayer game.

Therefore I agree with Silas

Jacen

Mishgul said:

I think people are too caught up in annoyingly enunciating their roleplay they forget to care about how to make a more interactive environment in this multiplayer game. Therefore I agree with Silas

A freakin million billion zillion bajillion times this. Can't tell you how many times I've been told OOCly (paraphrasingly) "Fuck you, that's not in my roleplay"

Reihaneh

With every forestal character I've ever played, I've loved Nature and couldn't stand Eleusis.

If you have to ask "why wouldn't you want to be with the rest of the Nature-ey people!!!" - that's why there are rogue forestals.

In Eleusis, to me, it has always felt like things are very dogmatic. Either you subscribe to Eleusis's version of what serving Nature means, or you aren't a forestal. (The same case used to be with Oakstone...since Oakstone has become less of a force in the world, it's different now.)

But really. I was one of the original members of the Treehuggers under my first character back when if you didn't think Eleusis and Oakstone were always right you were TEH EVIL, and now I am around to see the dogmatic, legalistic hot mess Eleusis has become since Lady Gaia's return...yuck.

At least in the past people who were forestal and didn't want to subscribe to the "one, right, and only way" of serving Nature had a chance to join other organizations and remain forestal-classed servants of Nature. Nowadays, with forestals being banned from other cities, that's really difficult unless you are a very established player. 

Even when I have played characters who were devoted to Eleusis, I as a player have always found the whole idea of a forestal city highly problematic. The longer it's been around, the more Eleusis has become about preserving Eleusis rather than preserving Nature.

Reihaneh

Also the Druids going Eleusian WHAT THE....

It makes my skin crawl.

Anedhel

Eleusis, legalistic? Other Cities must drive you absolutely insane, then

Reihaneh

I personally haven't found Ashtan or Cyrene to be terribly legalistic, at least not when it comes to the ideological stuff. I'd never play a Mhaldorian or a Hashani, so I can't speak to that, and I've more or less accepted that it's a part of Targossas.

The whole game has been pushed more and more towards each faction having a very legalistic, one-right-and-only-way sort of approach, so I recognize it's not just Eleusis that has that issue. It's just that I have more personal experience with why I'd like to be a rogue forestal/lover of Nature than why I'd like to be a rogue...I don't know...Necromancer/Evil-lover. So that's the experience I am sharing from what I've seen of Eleusis since it started until now.

Edited to add: Actually, it's not that Ashtan or Cyrene aren't legalistic. It's that Ashtan and Cyrene are honest and up front that their purpose is the continuation of Ashtan and Cyrene. Eleusis says that their (or our, I suppose I could say) purpose is the service of Nature, but in the way things play out, it is more about serving the political interests of Eleusis than anything else. And Eleusis =/= Nature.

Anedhel

I'mma let some actual Eleusian tackle that one >_>;

Valdus

Dude I want to see Eleusis' response. @Rangor @Penwize @Oceana @Anybodyelsewholvesthere

Rangor

@reihaneh You didn't fit very well with Eleusis. The little clique you surrounded yourself were mostly seen as the people we had to prevent from getting leath'ri positions at all costs, else they turn us into another lovable, uninfluential, non-com city.

Rangor

@reihaneh @Gaia's done good things for Eleusis so far. She turned the Druid House from a mostly useless house who had no influence on the overall game at all, into a contributing house that has been a great addition to Eleusis. I want her to go into overdrive and continue pushing us though! Still so much she can do for us.

Rangor

Eleusis is very legalistic. We're a small place and we gotta work towards the same goals. Can't have one person starting wars with Hashan, one person picking fights with Targossas while we're already in over our heads with Ashtan. (you get the idea) We don't have many laws, but we gotta stick to the ones we have to keep a common purpse and a focused objective in mind. (plz, can we stop fighting Mhaldor and start fighting someone else?)

Melodie

@Gaia is amazing on several levels and you should worship her.

Seriously.

Rangor

Loving Nature isn't enough to be Eleusian, anyone can "love" Nature. We need people to take a step further and be religious fanatics, zealots who will kill Nature's enemies on sight, ritualists who write up cool stuff with all the rituals we have to do annually. Playing a character that is about "omgz, nature and trees. love eet, let's be friends and make peace and watch the grass grow" isn't going to cut it.

Rangor

Reihaneh said:

In Eleusis, to me, it has always felt like things are very dogmatic. Either you subscribe to Eleusis's version of what serving Nature means, or you aren't a forestal. (The same case used to be with Oakstone...since Oakstone has become less of a force in the world, it's different now.)

Yes, yes, yes, YES, YES! Subscribe or gtfo please. These "hippie" "forestals" that feel they are true forestals while sitting in their grove or their city chatting with their friends and family. They really aren't doing much for the "RP". If people actually went a little bit deeper, they would find a LOT of lore around Nature, the past gods, the current gods, the abilities that are used and could build really cool conversations/debates/rituals/RPstuff around that.

Rangor

I think that's plenty of response. See what happens when you call @rangor, @valdus? Made me go out on a rant! Shame on you.

Melodie

Someone needs to put @Rangor back in his cage.

Rangor

this isn't a msg either!