wat is a Hashan?

Caoimhaen

I agree with you guys. Its the reason I left Hashan. I don't don't see it ever being anything more. I was bored. Hashan is by nature, apathetic. And even when they get up off their collective asses. They eventually sit down again and don't care anymore.

Achimrst

I'm leaning to agree with Hashan being Shallamed at this point, but I do feel like a good Twilight to wake up and give Hashan something shiny and new to play with could wake the city up and hopefully save the place. I mean I have fond memories of when my character was young and running around Hashan and I really would hate to see it be Shallamed.

Karai

I like Hashan, and have fond memories but I could actually see the Lotus becoming a monastic House accepting three classes primarily: Monk, BM, Magi.. maybe Runewarden, and that is without a city. I could envision the SL and the SW doing the same and getting on just fine. I like some of the people in the city, I enjoy the idea. I mean, Karai is more Darkwalker than even a good number of actual Darkwalkers, but there's not enough for this to tie Hashan together without something big happening. And no minor changes, it has to be significant. That said, I was always fond of the idea of a city in the Darkenwood. As far fetched as that'd be. Less bunnies and fuzzies, more warped abominations and stuff.

Achimrst

Karai said:

I like Hashan, and have fond memories but I could actually see the Lotus becoming a monastic House accepting three classes primarily: Monk, BM, Magi.. maybe Runewarden, and that is without a city. I could envision the SL and the SW doing the same and getting on just fine. I like some of the people in the city, I enjoy the idea. I mean, Karai is more Darkwalker than even a good number of actual Darkwalkers, but there's not enough for this to tie Hashan together without something big happening. And no minor changes, it has to be significant. That said, I was always fond of the idea of a city in the Darkenwood. As far fetched as that'd be. Less bunnies and fuzzies, more warped abominations and stuff.

I can see where your coming from on this, I have talked to people IC about the houses in Hashan and it does really seem like some of them don't fit in the city together. I mean it has kind of always been that way though even back when the houses fought each other a lot...although I always found that funny!

A city in the Darkenwood would be interesting, it would always be dark! :P

Nim

Ew. Cities having purposes. Eewwwww.

I mean, maybe Hashan could do with a bit more nationalism like Cyrene sometimes tends to have, and maybe it could do with more influential powerbases like Ashtan has with the occultists/nihilists, but personally I hate the fact that half the cities in the game are essentially singleminded warmachines designed to come into conflict with one another simply because the game lacks elements that cause actual populations to come into conflict (like limited resources).

Karai

Something like that was proposed. I know there's another MUD, not sure if we're allowed to comment on other games, but it had a farming system. And the resources were needed for the upkeep of certain city mechanics. It was interesting, though a different kind of grind than bashing. I mean, it's a good idea in theory.

EDIT: And I'd like to see ideas fleshed out for it, if the admins would at least comment on whether they would consider something like it. Then again, when I asked for a comment on veils, I just got an offhand laugh to an unrelated post and then the thread locked.

Jacen

I think intracity conflict could certainly be interesting, and there's certainly been some interesting issues in Hashan that have help develop my character, and others as well, I'm sure. However, because of the commonness of war in Achaea, no city that is a powerhouse would weaken themselves by promoting that sort of interaction. That intracity conflict was also the primary reason Shallam was destroyed, if I've interpreted things correctly. 

The admin are driving the game so that cities are the major players in the game, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, you have to be realistic and look at the population sizes of the cities, and then its not so hard to see that whatever the cities do, they have to be unified on it, because they don't have people to spare (except Ashtan). 

While intracity conflict is most definitely interesting, there's a crystal clear example of what it leads to in a game like Achaea, and no one wants to end up like us.

Karai

It's a different conflict than that. And not really one that conflicts with war, but could promote it. If Hashan has something another city needs, but we refuse, raiding could be a way of acquiring some of it at the cost of something else and with some protections for the raided city so we're not just used as a hunting ground to farm resources. It could also add to morale for soldiers or denizens that would offer other benefits. And, then you could introduce influence like what Lusternia has. It is so complex, though, that I'd be more concerned with it falling by the wayside rather than being utilized to the fullest.

Thinking on it more, shiptrades and other things could support this as well, making sailing a requirement for cities. I don't know, it just seems like something we could discuss.

Seriously, though. Factional Identity stuff as promised, plz.

Ourania

I have read through this post as it has happened, and noticed that a lot of times some of what was mentioned has happened in Hashan already, and was either ignored or removed. A lot of this happened with various people and various factions, so I do not know how much is out there in the world, so I request you are mature with this information.

Over war:

War comes at Hashan from many directions. It came from the south in Shallam when they asked if I would stand and protect Twilight's shrines. I said I would, obviously so, and that the Triad stood together. They did not approve, clearly, so my order was banned from Shallam and their attention turned to Hashan. This happened slowly, nothing happened quickly in Shallam, but it happened. Then they got destroyed.

It was continued onwards through their refugees and into their stance as Targossas. Occasional raids recently have proven quite exciting. Thumbs up for bubbling conflict there.

Mhaldor, well. The death of Ourania's daughter, no one can ever dispute that it wasn't a nasty thing. So I took it upon myself to face Sartan off. I was content that my order at the time could deal with it, and they stood beside me. With great pleasure Hashan supported me in this, and it soon escalated into a war. It involved throwing Apollyon's spikey thing at his temple, throwing rocks at Mhaldor, and so on.

The war was tough. Hashan during my matron time has not been a force to be reckoned with via PK, but could usually stand up for itself. However, the constant raids took a toll, and more complaints than compliments happened, thus it was forced from my control and I was asked to draw the conflict away from Hashan to my Order again. So the war with Mhaldor upon the city side ceased.

Identity:

During this time a lot has happened. Before Twilight had departed, we spoke often on the future plans and outlines for Hashan, joining our ideas and thoughts into progressing Hashan. Sadly he did depart, and thus it was left in my hands to continue our work, and for many in game years it worked well and Hashan grew.

Unfortunately a lot of the effort put in was seen as an ulterior motive (internal politics has always been the good guy/bad guy of Hashan), and thusly the work created was destroyed. I will not candy coat it, as the honesty is required. Citizens began to lose faith, things happen, you know the rest.

What is left is Hashan how it was many years ago. It is lost, and it is wandering once more. It even has little or no faith in its Triad. I know a lot more is going to happen for that city (patience!), but overall there has to be the players who are willing to support the city and what it is standing for, which is the Night. HELP HASHAN states this clearly. Factional identity is being asked for, yes, but the last few events run for Hashan to aid them in their identity lead to zero interest from the citizens. 

If you have ideas for Hashan, then please email them to me. If you have a genuine invested interest, then I am always willing to correspond over the matters involving the city.

If you have an official complaint etc, then as usual they go to Tecton.

Asmodron

A few points I'd like to  make.

- Concerning the idea of 'moving to Darkenwood', I had actually attempted this idea back in my days as citizen, and contacted both Twilight and Tecton about it...sadly  I was met with "it aint gonna happen". Though the idea of a "Dark nature" would be grand and would make wonderful conflict vs Eleusis, I think I may have to agree with them here in that we should stick to figuring out how to  get Hashan pumping.

- Conflict. It's what keeps the blood a-pumping in Achaea and so Achaea's mechanics are built around it. Ashtan vs Shallam. Shallam vs Mhaldor. Mhaldor vs Eleusis. Eleusis vs Ashtan. Ashtan vs Mhaldor. Each and every conflict has deep set meaning and reasons behind it. Now when we consider Hashan...it just doesnt have that same depth for conflict. Consider it, Ashtan has a faith deep set in Chaos and Freedom, while Shallam has a faith set in Order and Devotion..it is only rational these two would be at each others throats. Now as for recent conflicts for Hashan, it had the death of it's matron's daughter..though this would cause some spite and hatred...it just doesnt have a flame all to itself to keep burning for years to come.  Thus it is only natural that Hashan would recide back to what it was.

- Now going back into the past, with the early days of Hashan's founding, we can see something rather remarkable and interesting in Conflict. Hashan was a newly fledged city (no longer village) dead center in the middle of a forest. Naturally, as civilization growth goes, they sought to expand their lands and territory and so got their axes and started chopping at the forest. What did this cause? Conflict with Eleusis who went rabid and starting biting at lumberjacks. What did this present as a core conflict? Civilization vs Nature. It was wonderful and I always tried to push Hashan to fall back into this. Heck I was a Druid for some time in Hashan but I still pushed for breaking the forest around it.

If you ever have the time, take a look at the North Ithmia surrounding Hashan. It's damaged, broken and corrupted from the civilization expanding into it. Hashan is like a cancer on the forest. Heck, my grove was even placed at that grotesque shrine in the southwest quadrant. If the idea of growth and civilization was reintroduced, it could make for some fun conflict as well.

- Concerning Shallaming Hashan...I'd personally prefer not to. Other than my sentiments towards a game city I spent roughly 5 years in, I dont think pressing the delete button would be all that fair. Also it would generally look rather unprofessional if we kept deleting cities we deemed "not-working" and starting from scratch. There are -aloooot- of other ideas and themes that can be incorporated. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Hashan was cursed by Thoth and spelled by Twilight and became a city of shambling undead....Hashan still exists, just a new twist .

Karai said:

Hashan really needs to be BUG'd. Since we cannot come up with a purpose despite or best efforts, it almost seems that the admins need to get together and come up with ideas, and then furnish them with events to at least stir up some intrigue, and when are we getting that factional identity stuff you promised, Tecton? Short of this, Hashan has outlived it's usefulness and I can only see it going to way it did in Aetolia.

How -dare- you mention that horrible representation ><. That isnt Hashan, that is just a poor representation and lazy re-descriptions.

Trevize

Asmodron said:

- Now going back into the past, with the early days of Hashan's founding, we can see something rather remarkable and interesting in Conflict. Hashan was a newly fledged city (no longer village) dead center in the middle of a forest. Naturally, as civilization growth goes, they sought to expand their lands and territory and so got their axes and started chopping at the forest. What did this cause? Conflict with Eleusis who went rabid and starting biting at lumberjacks. What did this present as a core conflict? Civilization vs Nature. It was wonderful and I always tried to push Hashan to fall back into this. Heck I was a Druid for some time in Hashan but I still pushed for breaking the forest around it.

These events sound better and better with time.

When it was happening, It felt about like exterm/rejuve

Iocun

Ourania said:

my order was banned from Shallam and their attention turned to Hashan. [...] Then they got destroyed.

Badass!

Achimrst

Hell I wouldn't mind some Eleusis - Hashan conflict although there are IC items stopping that from happening.  Making them the Empire and throwing lasers at us Eleusian ewoks could be interesting. Although turning Hashan closer to Eleusis and them actively fixing the forests around the city could as well. I think Hashan should take advantage of their largest ally Ashtan and start poaching people over :P I mean they could definitely use the population. Ashtan has split into two cities before, Mhaldor, polarize one of their views and steal some of the little bastids!

Ourania

Trevize said:

Asmodron said:

- Now going back into the past, with the early days of Hashan's founding, we can see something rather remarkable and interesting in Conflict. Hashan was a newly fledged city (no longer village) dead center in the middle of a forest. Naturally, as civilization growth goes, they sought to expand their lands and territory and so got their axes and started chopping at the forest. What did this cause? Conflict with Eleusis who went rabid and starting biting at lumberjacks. What did this present as a core conflict? Civilization vs Nature. It was wonderful and I always tried to push Hashan to fall back into this. Heck I was a Druid for some time in Hashan but I still pushed for breaking the forest around it.

These events sound better and better with time.

When it was happening, It felt about like exterm/rejuve

Although yes, as Eleusis is the closest 'city' to Hashan, what is not known widely, is Hashan and Eleusis have a treaty which both cities have been picking over for some time. It is easy enough to say 'Right, Hashan! I hate trees. Burn all trees. Down with trees!' It would work against what the players (aka you lot) are doing. Understand?

Bluef

Ask Trevize in-game about the Night sometime!

If I do you will get kicked out of Hashan :P

I doubt it, @Trevize isn't an impressionable youth.

If you want to pretend that the Curia molests the minds of newcomers IC, that's your prerogative. But let's leave the make believe in the game, shall we? It's not productive to the discussion here.

Trevize

Achimrst said:

Hell I wouldn't mind some Eleusis - Hashan conflict although there are IC items stopping that from happening.  Making them the Empire and throwing lasers at us Eleusian ewoks could be interesting. Although turning Hashan closer to Eleusis and them actively fixing the forests around the city could as well. I think Hashan should take advantage of their largest ally Ashtan and start poaching people over :P I mean they could definitely use the population. Ashtan has split into two cities before, Mhaldor, polarize one of their views and steal some of the little bastids!

Only if I get an AT-ST.

Bluef

Vayne said:

Trey said:

I've had two concepts bouncing around in my mind for quite a while, really the same but different facets. However, with as entrenched as Hashan is in IC lore and player-wise it's unfeasible and doesn't fit. I think the concept is an interesting one, though. 1. Hashan casts aside the three Divine it has currently, adopts Thoth and becomes a grand necropolis. New architecture, darker tones, new guards etc. 2. Cyrene is Neutral-Diplomat. Hashan becomes Neutral-Mercenary, a nation state of soldiers fighting for the current highest bidder, flooding the soulrealm with tasty souls for Thoth. Again, inappropriate for Hashan now, but still.

The first idea has merit, but despite there being a notable population of his order members still in the city,Thoth kinda threw away Hashan in a tiff last time Twilight returned. The second made me giggle a little.

Thoth was actually initially displaced by Apollyon's presence in the city, specifically when Suffering took on the patronship of certain organizations. It's why he now patrons the Curia. Anyway, LOVE the first idea Trey, wish there could be a shake-up there to re-define what ambiguous concept the city will try to fashion itself after. Personally, when I was Regent I enjoyed the descriptions and practical roleplaying of Hashan as a city of law. It has the creation of a legal and court system as unique facets of its history that are seldom noted anymore.

Achimrst

Trevize said:

Achimrst said:

Hell I wouldn't mind some Eleusis - Hashan conflict although there are IC items stopping that from happening.  Making them the Empire and throwing lasers at us Eleusian ewoks could be interesting. Although turning Hashan closer to Eleusis and them actively fixing the forests around the city could as well. I think Hashan should take advantage of their largest ally Ashtan and start poaching people over :P I mean they could definitely use the population. Ashtan has split into two cities before, Mhaldor, polarize one of their views and steal some of the little bastids!

Only if I get an AT-ST.

You get AT-ST's a giant ship the size of a small moon and a massive shield generator we Eleusian ewoks can destroy with rocks and tree branches.

Trevize

Achimrst said:

Trevize said:

Achimrst said:

Hell I wouldn't mind some Eleusis - Hashan conflict although there are IC items stopping that from happening.  Making them the Empire and throwing lasers at us Eleusian ewoks could be interesting. Although turning Hashan closer to Eleusis and them actively fixing the forests around the city could as well. I think Hashan should take advantage of their largest ally Ashtan and start poaching people over :P I mean they could definitely use the population. Ashtan has split into two cities before, Mhaldor, polarize one of their views and steal some of the little bastids!

Only if I get an AT-ST.

You get AT-ST's a giant ship the size of a small moon and a massive shield generator we Eleusian ewoks can destroy with rocks and tree branches.

We're rebuilding Lunastra as a Death Star.

We got this.

Bluef

Jacen said: ....While intracity conflict is most definitely interesting, there's a crystal clear example of what it leads to in a game like Achaea, and no one wants to end up like us.

I disagree with most of this statement (and what came before it), but only because I've been playing 10 years an remember the wonderful spats between the Occultists in Ashtan and the other Houses, not to mention the way Hashan was before the House Treaty went into effect. Intra-city conflict was great. It made politics a dynamic part of city life instead of the popularity contest to support the same old thing that it is now in most places. 

The sad thing about the divine driving the game to where cities are the major players (which I agree is on-going) is that there are just a many, if not more, cityless wanderers and rogues playing who don't want to be unified to any city ideal, but who also don't want to be forgotten as contributors to the realm. Bringing the Elder Goddess Raclawice back would be a wonderful step in the right direction, but I digress.

This thread is about Hashan. I think the thing that makes the least sense about Hashan right now is this:

HELP HOUSE MERCHANTS
With time their goals stretched further than the confines of a single city, and in 633 A.F. the House struck out from the security and protection of Hashan to forge a new, independent path.

HELP HASHAN

                       Regents: Tyamat, Xadzia, Rispok, Laytron, and Eld

Trevize

On topic! I'd love to see Hashan move more towards the Night.

I'd also love to make shamans a Night cleric type like apostates/occultists/priests.

Achimrst

Trevize said:

On topic! I'd love to see Hashan move more towards the Night.

I'd also love to make shamans a Night cleric type like apostates/occultists/priests.

I totally agree, Shaman would make great cleric/priest path for Hashan. Although you only have like two of them and they are heavily influenced by Occultism.

Trevize

Achimrst said:

Trevize said:

On topic! I'd love to see Hashan move more towards the Night.

I'd also love to make shamans a Night cleric type like apostates/occultists/priests.

I totally agree, Shaman would make great cleric/priest path for Hashan. Although you only have like two of them and they are heavily influenced by Occultism.

If we fixed them up to have some really fun signature moves like 'spiritwalk' (astralform-esque, but your body stays put (and can be hurt!) until you 'unphase'), a move kinda like universe where you sketch Yggdrasil on the ground and touch different parts of the sketch to go to places, and made some changes to Vodun (think like one doll, not many, you just bind it to someone and can start using abilities, nerf the OP ones), I think we could draw more in!

Then have them choose Twilight, Ourania, or Valnurana and have some different effects based on which of the Night they aligned with...

And make it simply so if you're enemied to Hashan or any of the Triad, you have trouble using certain powers...

Hey, I can dream?

edit: talking to Kaitali made me rrealize I haven't brought up my favorite part of this idea - remove runelore as a class skill and make it a tradeskill, then give a spirit based skill with tons of FUN stuff (utility!) and do this.

Bluef

Trevize said:

Achimrst said:

Trevize said:

On topic! I'd love to see Hashan move more towards the Night.

I'd also love to make shamans a Night cleric type like apostates/occultists/priests.

I totally agree, Shaman would make great cleric/priest path for Hashan. Although you only have like two of them and they are heavily influenced by Occultism.

If we fixed them up to have some really fun signature moves like 'spiritwalk' (astralform-esque, but your body stays put (and can be hurt!) until you 'unphase'), a move kinda like universe where you sketch Yggdrasil on the ground and touch different parts of the sketch to go to places, and made some changes to Vodun (think like one doll, not many, you just bind it to someone and can start using abilities, nerf the OP ones), I think we could draw more in!

Then have them choose Twilight, Ourania, or Valnurana and have some different effects based on which of the Night they aligned with...

And make it simply so if you're enemied to Hashan or any of the Triad, you have trouble using certain powers...

Hey, I can dream?

This is exactly what the Curia does now RP-wise. Maybe Hashan could try to do something without stealing the basis for our existence, hm?

One more thing, if this becomes a "Hashan" class the way devotion belongs to the Bloodsworn/Targ, then what happens to those enemied to Hashan? I'm not a fan of the way cities have been forcing people to pay real-life money to change class.

Also - Valnurana's order is all about freedom. She permits her order members to be enemied to the other Triad divine, so that would make no sense unless there was some serious re-working of all three orders, which again seems like it directly harms more people than it helps Hashan. 

Achimrst

I don't think controlling actions of a Shaman is necessary, that's just something to control the flow of Priests and Apostates from being Evil or Good or neutral. Shaman have always been neutral there is no need to control them with something that stifles their powers. Also the Triad itself doesn't always agree, so being an enemy to one of them could cause problems if your a shaman and it's too easy to abuse that.

I do like the idea of having them tied to the Night gods, if you will, sort of like three separate paths for a Shaman to move along in RP and tying them to the city of Hashan more. I also think that with three paths of a Shaman focused on the three gods could enforce the ideas of the Night a lot more.

As far as abilities go, you should probably suggest that on classleads or something :P

Kaitali

It may be somewhat off topic, sorry to derail a bit.... Trevize's idea is amazing. The admin plans to take trade skills out of our primary class skills in the future, a new skill for Shamans which is "Night" focused is entirely possible. Not only ridiculously interesting but could actually do a lot to help Hashan have more of a unique identity by having a faction-aligned class, like so many other cities. Make it so, admin, please! If I ever changed class from Serpent...

Bluef, I never said anything about "punishing" shamans outside Hashan. The Occultists are a factional class, but there are rogues. It also enhances the roleplay of both the rogues and the Occultists themselves that they are a bit in conflict. This could potentially enhance roleplay as long as there wasn't a power to simply strip skills from rogue Shamans like excommunication which I would be against, but instead well roleplayed opposition between Hashani and non-Hashani shamans. Don't put words in my mouth, please?

Bluef

Kaitali said:

It may be somewhat off topic, sorry to derail a bit.... Trevize's idea is amazing. The admin plans to take trade skills out of our primary class skills in the future, a new skill for Shamans which is "Night" focused is entirely possible. Not only ridiculously interesting but could actually do a lot to help Hashan have more of a unique identity by having a faction-aligned class, like so many other cities. Make it so, admin, please! If I ever changed class from Serpent...

It would make far more RP sense for there to be a choice - like a decision tree for shamans particularly because they are supposed to be a neutral class. Light/Dark shamans focusing on curses or healing would be amazing. But that class structure isn't coming anytime soon.

Night is not neutral in the realm right now - it is Darkness, lies, Moon, ties to Oblivion, etc. You also need to consider the fact that there are more shamans outside of Hashan than in it. Firefox, the original founder of the Shamans Guild, isn't even a member of the Spirit Walkers anymore (he's Hashani but also Curia). So why should everyone who plays a shaman be punished because Hashan needs some new draw to get decent players to join up? 

Here's a better fix: Hashan corrects its internal issues without revising an entire class and then naturally draws in new adventurers the way every city does. 

Trevize

Bluef said:

Trevize said:

Achimrst said:

Trevize said:

On topic! I'd love to see Hashan move more towards the Night.

I'd also love to make shamans a Night cleric type like apostates/occultists/priests.

I totally agree, Shaman would make great cleric/priest path for Hashan. Although you only have like two of them and they are heavily influenced by Occultism.

If we fixed them up to have some really fun signature moves like 'spiritwalk' (astralform-esque, but your body stays put (and can be hurt!) until you 'unphase'), a move kinda like universe where you sketch Yggdrasil on the ground and touch different parts of the sketch to go to places, and made some changes to Vodun (think like one doll, not many, you just bind it to someone and can start using abilities, nerf the OP ones), I think we could draw more in!

Then have them choose Twilight, Ourania, or Valnurana and have some different effects based on which of the Night they aligned with...

And make it simply so if you're enemied to Hashan or any of the Triad, you have trouble using certain powers...

Hey, I can dream?

This is exactly what the Curia does now RP-wise. Maybe Hashan could try to do something without stealing the basis for our existence, hm?

Let's not get into this argument. Counter-productive, and I know absolutely nothing about the Curia, nor do I honestly want to. If it's Night-based, it probably won't be 'spiritwalk' exactly, so chill. I'm just throwing ideas about giving Shamans some 'fun' skills that would draw in players.

If you want to be productive, throw up a counter-proposal.

Trevize

Achimrst said:

I don't think controlling actions of a Shaman is necessary, that's just something to control the flow of Priests and Apostates from being Evil or Good or neutral. Shaman have always been neutral there is no need to control them with something that stifles their powers. Also the Triad itself doesn't always agree, so being an enemy to one of them could cause problems if your a shaman and it's too easy to abuse that.

I do like the idea of having them tied to the Night gods, if you will, sort of like three separate paths for a Shaman to move along in RP and tying them to the city of Hashan more. I also think that with three paths of a Shaman focused on the three gods could enforce the ideas of the Night a lot more.

As far as abilities go, you should probably suggest that on classleads or something :P

I see your point. Perhaps have it simply so the basic skills are more bland, choosing one of the Night changes the messages to have a -lot- more flavor, and make it so you can't be a 'cleric' of the God if you're enemied, and you go back to the 'plain' shaman flavor if you get enemied (and can choose another assuming you're not enemied to all three?)

Bluef

Trevize said: Let's not get into this argument. Counter-productive, and I know absolutely nothing about the Curia, nor do I honestly want to. If it's Night-based, it probably won't be 'spiritwalk' exactly, so chill. I'm just throwing ideas about giving Shamans some 'fun' skills that would draw in players.

If you want to be productive, throw up a counter-proposal.

One more  counter-proposal: I wouldn't have any problem with this spiritwalk thing if it was the result of the Curia and Walkers' reunification. The 150 year old grudge is ridiculous. But it would be even more ridiculous for the Walkers to adopt what the Curia have been doing in-character for RL years and then continue to shrug the clan off. Not just that but think of the instant allies and potential PK partners the city would gain if people could be forced to move a few people's personal issues. I'm one of the more active members of Valnurana's order too, so it would open up doors for more of a Dream presence in the city as well if old hatchets could be buried!