Multi-classing

Nemutaur

I'm not too worried by houses and multiclass.

Either they'll regulate it so that housed players can only multiclass to classess they currently have (which would hamper a lot of people so I doubt that's the route they'll take).

Or they'll allow housed players to choose from a certain set of classes that makes sense for their faction, so no Infernals or priests for any of the Ashtani houses. Now this would upset a few people in the city but I'm sure all the house leaders would have a sit down and agree that the 'core' classes would continue to be exclusive to their house, so that would be serpent, occultist, magi and monk for Ashtan for example.

Jarrod

Nemutaur said:

I'm not too worried by houses and multiclass.

Either they'll regulate it so that housed players can only multiclass to classess they currently have (which would hamper a lot of people so I doubt that's the route they'll take).

Or they'll allow housed players to choose from a certain set of classes that makes sense for their faction, so no Infernals or priests for any of the Ashtani houses. Now this would upset a few people in the city but I'm sure all the house leaders would have a sit down and agree that the 'core' classes would continue to be exclusive to their house, so that would be serpent, occultist, magi and monk for Ashtan for example.

This would make the most sense, and it's something I've talked to @Lianca about too. The Houses of the city keeping their 'defining' class unique to the House, and allowing the less defined classes for the city be multi-classed to, and give them the choice to join whichever House they want to fit with their personal RP.

I do not think everyone should be forced to pick one of the defined classes as Ashtan, simply that the RP of the class in this instance is closely tied with that of the respective Houses, and losing that for the sake of multi-class would be a bit of a waste of centuries of history.

Sylvance

Lianca said:

I have to disagree with @Sylvance here.

Some classes have a huge relevance on the roleplay of the player. Some of the neutral classes more so by choice, but many faction aligned classes are often integral to the personality, growth, and history of a character.

Which ones, @Lianca? If I'm perfectly honest, I can think of two, maybe three. In the vast majority of cases it seems to have very little impact at all.

Lianca

I know plenty of serpents whose class is very closely tied to their roleplay and the building of their character and models, a fair few druids and sylvans too, as a House Occultist, I can also say that ours is designed to integrate house tradition, class history, and class skills and take it further creating a roleplay heavy leaning. There are a fair few priests/paladins whose class moulds their actions, and the same for the other end of the spectrum.

If you pick a class for a good bashing skill, then of course there is going to be a fair bit of separation, but class should be integral to the character and for the faction heavy classes, it can be incredibly defining.

Blujixapug

Vansittart said:

But I also have @Blujiaxpug problems.

Damn right you've got problems if you can't even spell my name.

Vansittart

@Bluxiphajug @Blujipaxug @Blujixpug @Bluxjiapug @Blujixapuj @BLUJIXAPUG

*pride*

Iocun

Sarapis

Calling @Ydachikachishiroul

Athrax

Lianca said:

I know plenty of serpents whose class is very closely tied to their roleplay and the building of their character and models, a fair few druids and sylvans too, as a House Occultist, I can also say that ours is designed to integrate house tradition, class history, and class skills and take it further creating a roleplay heavy leaning. There are a fair few priests/paladins whose class moulds their actions, and the same for the other end of the spectrum.

If you pick a class for a good bashing skill, then of course there is going to be a fair bit of separation, but class should be integral to the character and for the faction heavy classes, it can be incredibly defining.

I don't disagree with @Lianca, but I don't think it's that cut and dry either.

I think class does and should play a factor in a character's RP, but it is certainly not the major factor in most cases.  Athrax, for instance, acts very much more like a monk than a knight, despite being Runewarden.   I have even gone as far as to point out on several occasions that he does not wish to be called a knight, and will always bow when saluted or formally greeted.   I can think of a few other cases as well, such as Iocun (extreme case)  where though a character is a particular class, they're personal ideals and RP mesh much more closely with their House or another organization than it does with their class. 

I definately agree that class should have impact on a characters RP though, and I definately agree with all the sentiments of classes that don't belong in certain cities/houses should not be allowed to multiclass.   As much I've always wanted to try out Infernal or Paladin, I just don't see how it would ever make sense for Athrax to be able to take on those classes as an Ashtani, and I would like for it to remain that way.

Jarrod

Think about that though, you're a Runewarden in the House designed around Monks. Iocun is a Serpent in a non-Serpent-centric House. Your House, which in what we've mentioned would be the Monk-primary House of Ashtan, is so strongly influenced by its central class that you adopted it to yourself as a Runewarden.

While this might not be the case for all Houses, I think it's a strong point in favor of what we've been discussing, not against.

Melodie

I largely agree with a lot that has been said, especially in reference to the fact that there are indeed some people who take their class to be an integral part of their character. I've seen several serpents who focus on it wholly (the Naga, the Wintermournes, and many others), and then yet others who take a class as a huge part of themselves while still very diverse in their character (Iocun, Halos, and I'd like to think myself). Just because a profession isn't all that there is to a character, doesn't mean that for a good amount of people, it's very important. You couldn't imagine Amunet or Flair as anything other than Occultist, just as you couldn't imagine Nizaris as anything other than an Apostate. This is by far not a bad thing. It does not apply to every player, but that certainly doesn't invalidate who it does effect.

All in all, I think the only thing we want is to make sure these class identities can remain past multi-classing, not that we're trying to force this concept on others. There are those of us who very much enjoy a class being a huge part of what our character is, and we just wish to make sure it remains that way going into the future with this very interesting mechanic.

One other thought:

A lot of people have been saying that they like the idea of a House having a "main" set of classes they accept, and then a "secondary" list for multiclassing. While I do like the idea of this, there's one problem I see that still bugs me to this day - this still leaves some classes out in the dark as far as Houses.

As an example, the ONLY House presently able to accept priests is the Mojushai. Now, part of this is due to the fact that Targossas currently has no Houses, but even when they eventually build theirs, the chances of anyone outside of Targossas (namely Cyrenians) being able to join is pretty much nil. That's not precisely a bad thing (or at least I won't argue about it here), but that basically means for every city, there's still going to only be one House that accepts your class, and then if you decide it's not for you, you're pretty much boned. If you feel your character doesn't really "fit" into your exact House anymore, then you're just going to to be left out in the rain.

What I would much, much more prefer is for Houses to be helped and redefined to where they are much more reliant upon their ideologies, rather than just one or two classes. I understand this can really effect some of the Houses (Knight Houses, the Occultists, the Serpent Houses mainly), but this also opens up a way for Houses to be revitalized - and I think we can all agree, Houses really need some help right now.

For instance, Melodie is a priestess, has been forever. However, over the years the monastic lifestyle has become less and less relevant to her, and with her engagement to a Knight, not to mention all of the time she spends with several Wardens, it has slowly become more sense for her to embrace a Knightly lifestyle. Thus, she accepts a secondary profession as a Runewarden, in order to begin that journey.

And that's just one example. She could also decide that her use of the elements in Healing deserve more study, so she also takes up the profession of a Magi and joins the Kindred. In either case, with how Houses are right now, she couldn't, since her main profession as a priestess leaves her pigeonholed into the Mojushai. I think we, as a growing and changing community, can look to expand upon that and give characters more choices in their lives, without detracting from the Houses themselves or reducing ourselves to the state autoclass had originally put us in.

Just my two cents. Still really looking forward to what comes of the discussions and planning!  

Rangor

I tried to be a runewarden knight in the sentinels, but it didn't work. I'm a 'sentinel' in every class. All it affects my character is the title i use.

Race change makes me speak differently though. Been a lot more of ye and yer after i went dwarf.

Sarapis

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone. Closing this thread now, as I think we've heard the range of opinions. You've given us a lot to consider, at a minimum!

It'll probably be awhile before you hear anything about it. Months. This is going to end up being a huge project encompassing multiple areas of the game, and we can't put everything else on hold while we concentrate exclusively on that, so it'll be awhile. It will happen though!

Sarapis

My parting feelings on the matter: