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Ramping up conflict

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  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aedin said:
    Achimrst said:
    (╯° _°)╯︵ ┻━┻ You are now free to complain about what I write!

    ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) no
    (╯° _°)╯︵ ┻━┻ That is mine and no means yes!

    Lilley
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tvistor said:
    Well, Xith, the thing is that even when you're right, I have an uncontrollable urge to hurl things around my room while casting ancient Wiccan curses upon your family name. I don't know why, but in a deterministic, utterly meaningless universe, I am forced to play along to my baser emotions in an effort to stave off onrushing oblivion.

    So it is with great fatalism I now click 'Disagree'.
    At least he's... honest?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Tvistor
  • LilleyLilley Member Posts: 27 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited September 2013
    I agree with Geraint in the sense that the forestal/evil standoff is not equal when it comes to offensive attacks.

    Necromancers can Exterminate, and forestals can remedy that. But why don't the forestals have an equally-as-powerful ability that affects those that will harm the forests, and to counteract the forestal attack the necromancers have their own "Rejuvenate"? What I mean is, the necromancy ability to Exterminate is set out to specifically destroy the life in a natural room. That is THEIR attack directly on the forests. So, the forestals should have something that is equal to that, something that only affects a specific thing having to do with their enemies, much like how Exterminate only affects natural rooms.

    There definitely should be a balance their, not just one party having the ability to affect something, and the other being able to fix it but not have a counterattack against the source of the aggression.

    Edit: And normal attacks do NOT count as a counterattack.
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    attackign the red fog does not sound so amazing though because we are under no obligation to care about it that much.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    KyriellaSherazad
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited September 2013
    Well, we could go the very horrible route, and give forestals an ability to turn a room with fog... into a forest room. Flowganks galore!

    And thornspray. Can't forget about that.
    Post edited by Alrena on
    image
    Achimrst
  • LilleyLilley Member Posts: 27 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    there*
    Borran
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wait, someone please explain why forestals turning red fog into gardens is a bad idea? Someone who isn't typically a pacifist / non-combatant in-game, please.

  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Easy. Extermination sucks. Let's not curse the other side with something similar, even if it is on a smaller scale.
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Extermination only sucks because you're on the receiving end. You'd change your tune if you had a retaliatory attack. Then you can just go back and forth until nobody actually cares anymore, like Icons.

    The alternative would be emoting out the conflict, where every one gets XP for successful emotes and nobody has to feel bad about "losing" because it's all pre-determined.

    SylvanceLilley
  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just because I can suddenly do the same to Mhaldor, does not mean it sucks less. It means that the misery is now spread around, and the conflict is escalated to the point where both sides are tired of it. See Shala-Khulia as an example. Nobody liked Shala-Khulia.
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    Eurulis said:
    Just because I can suddenly do the same to Mhaldor, does not mean it sucks less. It means that the misery is now spread around
    Dude. Spreading the misery around is exactly making it suck less. If someone illegally kills me, I get to hire on them twice, 2x the misery they caused me. Now I feel less miserable. Life is cyclical in Nature (get it? Nature?).

    Shala-Khulia sucked because defending off-plane places with one or two methods of traversing there when only one side has any type of offense is clearly imbalanced, and for some reason Achaea has embraced imbalance for 16 years. I think "not every thing needs to be balanced" is usually the general populace's rallying cry, unless you're on the imbalanced side of things.
    Eurulis said:
    the conflict is escalated to the point where both sides are tired of it.
    Yeah but then you can just blow up one of the cities and spend a few rl weeks as refugees.

  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    hella buggy code
    But if you're going to try and "fix" forest conflict at all, why stop there, why settle for that?

    You guys are expecting miracles from 16yo legacy code made by an often drunken, college-aged Matt Mihaly (<3 you Sarapis). I just want that to settle in for a minute. I mean, they can't implement the most obvious solution because of buggy fog. What exactly are you hoping for?

  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aktillum said:
    hella buggy code
    But if you're going to try and "fix" forest conflict at all, why stop there, why settle for that?
    You guys are expecting miracles from 16yo legacy code made by an often drunken, college-aged Matt Mihaly (<3 you Sarapis). I just want that to settle in for a minute.
    You seem to be misinterpreting what I wrote to try and make some strange point of your own, which confirms that it was a mistake for me to post in the first place.
    image
    EldKyrraSylvanceDaeir
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    No I understand your point perfectly clear, raiding red fog sucks because it's not in-tune with some strange concept that determined mortals can't strike at a God's essence, and it'd be a boring mechanic, and yada. My point is that we've obviously been waiting years for some alternative, which hasn't happened, and hasn't happened most likely because of technical limitations, so I'm trying to get to the root of exactly what you guys would like to see. Like, in your ideal Achaea, what is the realistic solution to this problem?

  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ah, I see what your thinking is. You think that the misery is finite. That if we put it into two cups, that it'll be less. But the problem with that thinking is, it's a constantly growing thing. X does not equal 1, It's more like F(x)=x*2, where x is the number of times it happens (If my math is right). The cups will eventually overflow.

    If you give the Red Fog the ability to be exterminated, then the conflict will be escalated to the point where it's no longer any fun, and just feels griefy. While yes, it would be nice to fight back, in the long run, it would be both sides dealing with extermination. It will not mean that both sides have less misery, it will mean that both sides are dealing with that misery now.

    But you know what? Maybe Mhaldor would enjoy that. After all, I haven't seen any Mhaldorian speak up about the concept.
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    - Because the red fog is confined to Mhaldor Island
    So would the idea suck less if Mhaldor was able to spread the fog all over Sapience through (oh god, help me for saying this) rituals?

    Every other conflict mechanic in Achaea operates under the idea both sides have an equal way to attack each other.

    *City raids
    *Shrines
    *Icons

    It's horribly outdated and begins to feel stale, but we're also playing a 16yo MUD running legacy code. I'm not trying to insult Achaea here because we all still find enjoyment in it, I just really want to drive the point home that Achaea is under very serious technical limitations, has less than a handful of overworked, paid coders, and things here tend to take an extremely long time to be implemented.

    So please, please bear with me, and give me some original ideas that the staff might find worth implementing, so we can exit this vicious circle of "retaliatory mechanics suck balls".

  • GuyGuy Member Posts: 7 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I think it would be cool if cities could overlook some differences and form alliances (Targossas - Cyrene - Eleusis vs Mhaldor - Ashtan - Hashan) and start a gigantic world war to vanquish Evil/Chaos/Good/Forests/Hobbits/Mudbloods/Whatever.
  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    The entire point he was making is that the mechanic as a whole sucks, and that something else needs to be put in place. Sadly, I cannot tell you what. At this point, I'm beginning to think that we need to do away with the entire concept and just work more on the War system, and settle the differences that way.
    Awan
  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2013
    Guy said:
    I think it would be cool if cities could overlook some differences and form alliances (Targossas - Cyrene - Eleusis vs Mhaldor - Ashtan - Hashan) and start a gigantic world war to vanquish Evil/Chaos/Good/Forests/Hobbits/Mudbloods/Whatever.
    That happened before, and everyone worked very hard to split that up. It sounds good in concept, but in the end, just more of the same.

    Edit:Spelling
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mmmm Mhashtan. Yes please.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    GuyKyriellaHasar
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    Aktillum said:
    So please, please bear with me, and give me some original ideas that the staff might find worth implementing, so we can exit this vicious circle of "retaliatory mechanics suck balls".
    Eurulis said:
    something else needs to be put in place. Sadly, I cannot tell you what.
    :-w
    And the circle-jerk continues.

    No, I'll be fair. Focusing on the War system is an alright start, except it's like the same 14 faces in every city at this point.

  • EurulisEurulis Member Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2013
    Money where your mouth is, Aktillum. You're calling for original ideas, but it isn't easy to make something for this kind of conflict. Furthermore, people don't need to come up with ideas in order to criticize something. It sucks, but it's true. I'll expand on what I said previously, though.

    I'm seriously beginning to think that it needs to be moved to the war system, where -everyone- can give input, not just forestals/Mhaldorians. Does it make it more generic? Yes, but it means it'll be easier to regulate. Is it the best idea? No, but it's better than what we have, in my opinion.

    Edit: Did not see your edit there. Oh well.
    Lilley
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My original idea I posted in here said Red Fog, but it really could be anything. I was talking about getting a reagent from the fog or from the lycopods that can be used to defend the forest, because that is what forestals do, that way it would do the same as extermination in a way. It would just be some annoying thing that stops the plants from dying and your extermination from happening. Sort of like the rite of preservation we use on our groves. It would be a temporary effect that is offensive and gives Mhaldor a reason to not want us to do it, also we would be on their island and they pissed about that all the time.
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eurulis said:
    Money where your mouth is, Aktillum. You're calling for original ideas, but it isn't easy to make something for this kind of conflict. Furthermore, people don't need to come up with ideas in order to criticize something. It sucks, but it's true. I'll expand on what I said previously, though.

    I'm seriously beginning to think that it needs to be moved to the war system, where -everyone- can give input, not just forestals/Mhaldorians. Does it make it more generic? Yes, but it means it'll be easier to regulate. Is it the best idea? No, but it's better than what we have, in my opinion.

    I will happily spout off some random, not-really-thought-out ideas to get the Disagree train rolling.

    -Allow Mhaldor to spread the fog all over Sapience, making them Public Enemy #1, as Evil rightfully should be. (inb4 Oblivion threatens us all blabla). Mhaldor citizens get bonuses for every percentage of Sapience taken over, kinda like how you see more gang members in territories you've gained in GTA: San Andreas. Give each city a way to throw crap into their fonts that counters the spreading of the fog.

    -Make forest rooms regenerate on their own so nobody has to actually care about extermination. Alternatively, give Oakstone members the ability to rejuvenate ALL forest rooms in Sapience at once, at a cost to Gaia's essence (or whoever is forest god this month).

    -Give forestals a way to attack Mhaldor itself with the forest, instead of the island. Instead of raids destroying rooms, raids create forest rooms inside Mhaldor, so the fortress gets wrapped in vines until they hack them apart.

    -Whine and cry until the admins give Oakstone the ability to sever forestal ties with Mhaldorian druids, thus forcing them to rely on alchemy.

  • NakariNakari Member Posts: 596 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    -Whine and cry until the admins give Oakstone the ability to sever forestal ties with Mhaldorian druids, thus forcing them to rely on alchemy.
    You do know that there are a grand total of two of us, right? And that the city is already wholly dependent on alchemy?

    AepasAchimrst
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2013
    Nakari said:
    -Whine and cry until the admins give Oakstone the ability to sever forestal ties with Mhaldorian druids, thus forcing them to rely on alchemy.
    You do know that there are a grand total of two of us, right? And that the city is already wholly dependent on alchemy?
    That's two too many. You could supply Mhaldor with herbs in the event everyone decided Alchemist is not worth playing, thereby negating any role-played trade embargo. So, keep your class, but be unable to harvest from the forests, similar to excom'd Priests who don't gain any devo points.

    Eurulis said:
    After all, I haven't seen any Mhaldorian speak up about the concept.
    I think that's because they realize the futility of bashing their heads against a brick wall. Personally, I'm a masochist hell-bent on being inflammatory until we find a solution. The main problem I see here is very similar to the problems of Ashtan / Shallam. You've got one faction who loves to instigate PK conflict, and another faction who's shielding themselves with their hands crying, "Comeon guys, can't we emote this out?". Not a 100% accurate description, but the shoe fits.

  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would totally do fine with metamorphosis and weaponry as a druid, as long as I can swing staff which is a grove skill.

    With the whole two forestals in Mhaldor though, I really doubt this would be a high priority. Gaia has already expressed her power over me by removing some of my abilities for a time. While potent to RP it really made no difference. Giving another faction the ability to sever ties would just add more annoying political nonsense especially if a druid from the merchants or some nonsense got enemied to oakstone. Since oakstone is mostly combined with Eleusis now, the politics get a little hazy at times. Aepas was (when he was a little newbie) enemied to Oakstone for raiding Eleusis for instance.

    TLDR bad idea.

    Mhaldor has no reliance on the forests. Only Nakari and Aepas do, and it's not like Mhaldor is hanging off their shoulders.

    As much as I do enjoy seeing discussions about things, This is an argument from years and years ago. The admin know what you all think about it, so just hold on. I'm sure it will be fixed, but only after weapons (hope)
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    Lilley
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