Combat Logs

Jacen

Had the whole Hashan defense following me in that raid and I was 90%AFK the whole time, girlfriend was quizzing me on some relationship quiz she found on facebook and getting pissed when I wouldn't answer immediately.

Aktillum

5125h, 3843m, 14961e, 11303w excdbk(+1308 Health) 

Jarrel moves in towards you in a grabbing posture.

Jarrel lifts you triumphantly into the air, then yanks you down into his raised knee with back breaking 

force.

With a sickening crunch, a bolt of pure agony erupts from your back. Your head lolls to one side and you 

lose all the feeling in your legs. As you crumple to the ground you realise that the throw did, indeed, 

snap your spine like a dry twig.

You have been slain by Jarrel.

lollll

Sothantos

I had no idea that was a duel and was kind of half paying attention following.

edit: that is, however, kind of hilarious

Triak

Aktillum said:

5125h, 3843m, 14961e, 11303w excdbk(+1308 Health) 

Jarrel moves in towards you in a grabbing posture.

Jarrel lifts you triumphantly into the air, then yanks you down into his raised knee with back breaking 

force.

With a sickening crunch, a bolt of pure agony erupts from your back. Your head lolls to one side and you 

lose all the feeling in your legs. As you crumple to the ground you realise that the throw did, indeed, 

snap your spine like a dry twig.

You have been slain by Jarrel.

lollll

torso breakage does that bro

Vaehl

Tesha said:

Aww! Yeah misunderstandings can be rough, in context that makes a lot more sense. I am sorry that happened to you Jarrel

@Vaehl I defile in groups because when I do not, someone comes, and I am happy to fight them. But then like two more people come. I stopped defiling alone when Tirac came and I was happy to fight him - then Ayoxele and Saibel started helping and, well, I brought more friends. 

He was still really mad even though I dueled him afterwards, saying I would still not be safe and that it was dishonorable, etc... he has not really hunt me down, but it made me feel like defiling alone is not worth the trouble if it goes unappreciated. I still do it sometimes, like when that group of 6 was defending a shrine and nobody else wanted to defile with me (they came once things started going well I only felt a little bad about the chain of 5 pieties <_<). 

(edited to add a note that the Tirac stuff only really bothered me because he is an experienced fighter/knight so it kind of sucked that he seemed to think of me that way even though I tried really hard to make up for it by dueling him after and offering another when he said he would hunt me - also I separate me from my character, it is just way easier to post this way ) 

(( edited again because that was the creepiest smiley i have ever seen ))

I haven't ever seen you defile without a group, though. So how could I have possibly teamed you when you were 'defiling alone'?

Sherazad

Tesha said:

Aww! Yeah misunderstandings can be rough, in context that makes a lot more sense. I am sorry that happened to you Jarrel

@Vaehl I defile in groups because when I do not, someone comes, and I am happy to fight them. But then like two more people come. I stopped defiling alone when Tirac came and I was happy to fight him - then Ayoxele and Saibel started helping and, well, I brought more friends. 

He was still really mad even though I dueled him afterwards, saying I would still not be safe and that it was dishonorable, etc... he has not really hunt me down, but it made me feel like defiling alone is not worth the trouble if it goes unappreciated. I still do it sometimes, like when that group of 6 was defending a shrine and nobody else wanted to defile with me (they came once things started going well I only felt a little bad about the chain of 5 pieties <_<). 

(edited to add a note that the Tirac stuff only really bothered me because he is an experienced fighter/knight so it kind of sucked that he seemed to think of me that way even though I tried really hard to make up for it by dueling him after and offering another when he said he would hunt me - also I separate me from my character, it is just way easier to post this way ) 

(( edited again because that was the creepiest smiley i have ever seen ))

I thought Vaehl was more complaining on the OPness of the defilers (numberwise and the rites and stuff prepared) than people defiling in groups. 

Been busy irl but I understand where he's coming from given that there are lots of times where Mhaldorians initiate conflict with fewer people. 

Niks

I didn't hear anything about a duel, we were raiding, you came in - you're Ashtani, Ashtan helps Hashan, you're a raider, you died.

It wasn't intended, but nobody was out to trick you either.

Tesha

omg quotes are complicated, but this is @Vaehl: I did not say you, I said Ayoxele, I do not think I have ever seen your character. But it was in Shastaan, Tirac was in dragonform, Saibel was using the warp. I stayed for the 1v2 because Saibel did not seem all that bad (and because the door was blocking my tumbling) then Ayoxele came into the room and I got a pilgrimage (or maybe it was a deliver? It was like a week ago.) out of there. I am not really certain if it was Ayoxele or someone else, but I know that it was a third and at that point I just left.

I also defile in groups of 2 reasonably often, and I have tried to be really good about offering duels to anyone I felt I was lame to. So... yeah, I do much more than just defile in big groups heh.

@Sherazad yeah, we can prepare a lot. I only used a chain of piety when I thought I would be alone against 6 though (and 4 came after 1 came early), so when they got through the chain to the shrine, it was too late and I was gone. And then I came back with a similarly sized group.

Jacen

Lol at *Shallam justifying everything they do, but condemning Ashtani for doing the same.

Vaehl

I am Ayoxele and have never defended a shrine in Shastaan in (his?) life.

Cooper

About 5 minutes before Jarrel got 'ganked', he killed Draqoom 3 times in about 20 seconds with other people. Karma, I guess.

Tesha

Vaehl said:

I am Ayoxele and have never defended a shrine in Shastaan in (his?) life.

Well, I am certain someone came. I remember because I said "oh crap now what" IRL since I could not get through the door. 

Sherazad

Sorry for derailing, but when I am on, there's not much people around and we still get defiled lots. I'm in no position to complain though, been real busy. It's why I don't really bother defending anyways. 

Vaehl

That's because you have to open doors before you go through.

Also hi Cooper bb

Silas

Jacen said:

Lol at *Shallam justifying everything they do, but condemning Ashtani for doing the same.

Oh, Jacen.

Saibel

Tesha said:

Vaehl said:

I am Ayoxele and have never defended a shrine in Shastaan in (his?) life.

Well, I am certain someone came. I remember because I said "oh crap now what" IRL since I could not get through the door. 

I came through the warp. Tirac was there first. Ayoxele was nowhere near and truly, if you want a one on one duel, defiling a shrine and feeling 'disappointed' when the order and wannabe-ordermates show up to defend sounds a touch silly.

Iocun

The point is that it's an arms race. This debate started with Vaehl's statement about defilers going overboard with group size and preparation, so Tesha replied with an incident where she was defiling on her own but was overwhelmed by defenders going (relatively to this) overboard. The point here is that it happens both ways, and that the very fact that one party isn't happy to face another on equal grounds but chooses to go for ensured dominance leads to a shrine battles only getting larger and larger and becoming more similar to city raid defence.

I have both defended against defilers and defiled myself. I was always alone and most of the time I was faced with multiple opponents. Naturally, I died every single time I was involved in shrine conflict, if it actually led to a fight and I was faced with more than one opponent.

If this is the basis we have to assume, it's absolutely no wonder that people start do gather huge groups and entrench themselves when going to defile. People like winning, at the very least once in a while.

P.S. By the way, props to Proficy for being the only one who defiled Kastalian shrines while allowing himself to be witnessed and being ready to fight it out 1v1. The sheer amount in which he did it was tedious, but he was a better sport about it than so many others.

Saibel

I think some orgs need more shrines others can use to bait and trap defenders.

Tvistor

I spoke to someone who was getting irritated at Mhaldor bringing more defenders than defilers (he was trying to solo defile). His reasoning was that he wanted to use shrines to initiate a fun fight, maybe 2 v 1, but now instead had to bash for like an hour to make up the experience loss.

On the other side of the coin, it seriously sounds like even one death can represent a significant amount of time spent bashing for the people that die. I don't know what the solution to that is, but I can definitely understand people not wanting to bash for one and a half hours (the amount of time cited to me over that incident) because your faction decided to play fair. If that number is at all accurate, it's even sillier when you think about the fact the current death mechanisms are far less punishing than the ones in place when I first started playing.

Tesha

What Iocun said, really. I was not disappointed that friends came, I was disappointed with Tirac's rage afterwards. And a third person definitely came, sorry. :P 

Jacen

Tvistor said:

I spoke to someone who was getting irritated at Mhaldor bringing more defenders than defilers (he was trying to solo defile). His reasoning was that he wanted to use shrines to initiate a fun fight, maybe 2 v 1, but now instead had to bash for like an hour to make up the experience loss.

On the other side of the coin, it seriously sounds like even one death can represent a significant amount of time spent bashing for the people that die. I don't know what the solution to that is, but I can definitely understand people not wanting to bash for one and a half hours (the amount of time cited to me over that incident) because your faction decided to play fair. If that number is at all accurate, it's even sillier when you think about the fact the current death mechanisms are far less punishing than the ones in place when I first started playing.

I feel like with the change to the PK rules, we should see less consequence for dying in PK situations, and thus more incentive (or less consequence) for taking part in RP fueled combat situations.

Tirac

Jarrel said:

Teamed by 9 people instant I walk to Aktillum. Editted to fit

Honestly, considering the people in this log, probably should have seen it coming.

Cooper

It doesn't matter how many people the 'defenders' bring when you instigate the conflict. You started it, if you don't want to fight that many people, don't start the conflict or leave.

Tirac

Tesha said:

(edited to add a note that the Tirac stuff only really bothered me because he is an experienced fighter/knight so it kind of sucked that he seemed to think of me that way even though I tried really hard to make up for it by dueling him after and offering another when he said he would hunt me - also I separate me from my character, it is just way easier to post this way ) 

I have never seen your character do anything other than try to gank people, outside of that one duel. And that's perfectly fine. It's also fine that you 7v1 ganked me while defiling, not a problem, I should have seen it coming.

But if you come to my character preaching about the honorable virtues of Squire Tesha 10 minutes after ganking me, my character is going to shut you down, harshly. Dueling doesn't make an honorable character. If it did, Jhui would be the king of knights. He's not. And that's perfectly fine, we like him anyway.

But let's not bullshit ourselves.

(Not even going to respond to your complaints about too many people defending a defilement.)

Lyr

Cooper said:

It doesn't matter how many people the 'defenders' bring when you instigate the conflict. You started it, if you don't want to fight that many people, don't start the conflict or leave.

That attitude is why shrine conflict is so awful, IMHO. If you bring seven people to kill one person defiling, they'll just bring 7 people to do any sort of defiling, and then the same people QQ on the forums.

Dunn

We like Jhui?

(JK he's my second favorite tree hugger out of two favorite tree huggers)

Terra

Jacen said:

Lol at *Shallam justifying everything they do, but condemning Ashtani for doing the same.

Eh. I can't say too much because I don't know the whole situation, but if several *Shallamese gank someone and someone says "Lol, no *Shallamese deserve fair fights," and then another *Shallamese who didn't gank them says "Hey, we're not all that way," there isn't really a contradiction. The idea that all members of a city are the same is the reason everyone ganks everyone way too much.

Tesha duels a lot.

Manifest

So bored.

Dunn

Terra said:

Jacen said:

Lol at *Shallam justifying everything they do, but condemning Ashtani for doing the same.

Eh. I can't say too much because I don't know the whole situation, but if several *Shallamese gank someone and someone says "Lol, no *Shallamese deserve fair fights," and then another *Shallamese who didn't gank them says "Hey, we're not all that way," there isn't really a contradiction. The idea that all members of a city are the same is the reason everyone ganks everyone way too much.

Tesha duels a lot.

Terra

Iocun said:

The point is that it's an arms race. This debate started with Vaehl's statement about defilers going overboard with group size and preparation, so Tesha replied with an incident where she was defiling on her own but was overwhelmed by defenders going (relatively to this) overboard. The point here is that it happens both ways, and that the very fact that one party isn't happy to face another on equal grounds but chooses to go for ensured dominance leads to a shrine battles only getting larger and larger and becoming more similar to city raid defence.

I have both defended against defilers and defiled myself. I was always alone and most of the time I was faced with multiple opponents. Naturally, I died every single time I was involved in shrine conflict, if it actually led to a fight and I was faced with more than one opponent.

If this is the basis we have to assume, it's absolutely no wonder that people start do gather huge groups and entrench themselves when going to defile. People like winning, at the very least once in a while.

P.S. By the way, props to Proficy for being the only one who defiled Kastalian shrines while allowing himself to be witnessed and being ready to fight it out 1v1. The sheer amount in which he did it was tedious, but he was a better sport about it than so many others.

Also, this. I've died so many times defiling and getting owned 4-6 v. 1. I don't really care, so I tend to usually keep defiling alone or in really small groups anyway, but the idea that it's somehow unfair for someone to react to that by defiling with 4-6 people to even the odds is a bit hypocritical. Shrines are there to create conflict. It'd be really nice if they generated more fair, fun fights and less boring ganks, but it's impossible to do without the side with potentially larger numbers consciously deciding not to bring more people than necessary (and the other side not taking advantage of that by later bringing more).