Combat Logs

Reyson

I suspect a fair few of Mhaldor's fighters weren't around for that period (or weren't Mhaldorian, at the time) you're referring to, as well! 

Rangor

Reyson said:

I suspect a fair few of Mhaldor's fighters weren't around for that period (or weren't Mhaldorian, at the time) you're referring to, as well! 

That is true. Cooper was with us in spirit at a forums warrior though. Only Proficy and Aegoth really comes to mind.

Caelan

Rangor said:

Reyson said:

I suspect a fair few of Mhaldor's fighters weren't around for that period (or weren't Mhaldorian, at the time) you're referring to, as well! 

That is true. Cooper was with us in spirit at a forums warrior though. Only Proficy and Aegoth really comes to mind.

And at that point, they were just the caboose on the M-train.

It's all cyclical.  So easy to justify IG as a student of Nature (which you did nicely).  The chaff will fall off and go to the side that isn't getting pounded.  Then come back and claim they never left.  It is all way too predictable at this point.  I say good job on Mhaldor for bringing IG suffering back a la new @Sartan as opposed to the handwringing emo BS of old Apollyon-esque Mhaldor.  IG it it helps them push their point of strength through suffering.  And @Aegis point that said Suffering is the most base form of War, in the most base form of combat.

Kafziel

Cooper said:

Rangor said:

Look at the names, not the numbers.

If only you had ever looked at names or numbers when you raided. Instead, you brought 2-3x the number of people we had online weekly for years while telling us to suck it up.

I thought it was pretty well established that @Rangor checks the names and numbers every time he raids. How else can he guarantee no defenders around?

  

(This is just a joke btw, the numbers argument is old as fuck by this point)

Torinn

As soon as everyone realizes that the loser will always complain about unfairness and the winner will justify why it's fair, we can get past this. This sort of behavior is as old as online gaming has been a thing. Die to someone in counter strike? He is a hacker, duh.  The question really is, what are you going to do about losing?  What's the victor going to do with the winning?  

Torinn

I argue it does not mean nothing. If Eleusis stopped defending the forests and Mhaldor constantly exterms, I would hope they would get Sartan to perform a world event and turn some forests to permanent ash. Fighting mechanically does nothing, but when backed up by RP and worldbuilding you have a recipe for compelling stories and development.  That's why Achaea is BETTER than Eve or Ultima.  But it requires more than just pressing your bashing alias to kill adventurers or pressing F1 when your FC says to

Taryius

I mean not long ago Targossas got to nuke Ashtan and permanently remove some rooms. Right?

Ankhareoutef

Daeir said:

I would agree with you, but I've played this game for long enough to know that it probably won't ever happen. It makes sense for it to happen sure, and it would be fucking incredible if it did, but it probably isn't going to.

I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I just don't think I will be. I really want to be, though.

Challenge accepted.

Sayenna

Vs @Sobriquet
Tunnel visioned too much, got rekt.
My cheese plan worked, after I fixed the alias. I suspect it won't work again, though. Gotta fix up my stuff for people who handle blight decently.

Was fun fights! Two-handed hurts, even despite clumsiness/weariness/paralysis spammage.

Dunn

Jesus @Daeir wanna come be a Nihilist?

Sobriquet

Sayenna said:

Vs @Sobriquet
Tunnel visioned too much, got rekt.
My cheese plan worked, after I fixed the alias. I suspect it won't work again, though. Gotta fix up my stuff for people who handle blight decently.

Was fun fights! Two-handed hurts, even despite clumsiness/weariness/paralysis spammage.

You had to post that.. 

Sayenna

Sobriquet said:

Sayenna said:

Vs @Sobriquet
Tunnel visioned too much, got rekt.
My cheese plan worked, after I fixed the alias. I suspect it won't work again, though. Gotta fix up my stuff for people who handle blight decently.

Was fun fights! Two-handed hurts, even despite clumsiness/weariness/paralysis spammage.

You had to post that.. 

Psh. We're 1-1! I'll figure something out eventually to not need to use stuff like that, you actually prio decently for my other cheesy, underhanded tactics to work :P

Sobriquet

First time I've seen a fight from the other side, much improvements required all round but fun fights, thank you

Nazihk

Torinn said:

I argue it does not mean nothing. If Eleusis stopped defending the forests and Mhaldor constantly exterms, I would hope they would get Sartan to perform a world event and turn some forests to permanent ash. Fighting mechanically does nothing, but when backed up by RP and worldbuilding you have a recipe for compelling stories and development.  That's why Achaea is BETTER than Eve or Ultima.  But it requires more than just pressing your bashing alias to kill adventurers or pressing F1 when your FC says to

Ultima I will grant you.

EVE, not so much. Politics and the economy there are entirely player driven and they have a ridiculously huge impact on the game world. Way way WAY more impact than those things have in Achaea.

Dunn

If you were playing when @Tanris and co used to do guard wipes, I expect you'd be in rants instead of here. That's a consequence. You're just spewing jade all over this board.

We could always drop the decorum and go back to that sort of play if you want, but I don't think that's the direction anyone wants this game to go. Perma death MUDs exist if you want a lateral move, or you can go full time EVE.

Xaden

Dunn said:

If you were playing when @Tanris and co used to do guard wipes, I expect you'd be in rants instead of here. That's a consequence. You're just spewing jade all over this board.

We could always drop the decorum and go back to that sort of play if you want, but I don't think that's the direction anyone wants this game to go. Perma death MUDs exist if you want a lateral move, or you can go full time EVE.

You play with decorum?

j/k

Dunn

Oh, I meant group decorum. I'm a piece of shit. I blame Tanris for that one.

Sobriquet

Dunn said:

Oh, I meant group decorum. I'm a piece of shit. I blame Tanris for that one.

Bastard.. whatever happened to him anyway... ?

Sayenna

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/Ydq5cz1w

What do? Yes I'm aware of all the fails of my Vodun, Harmony kept curing his confusion - I pulled the lock off when I stopped trying to cheese him through Harmony, but still almost died first!

Why does SSC randomly start spam applying to head? Is there not a line/gmcp message for when you get scalded? I notice it curing, but I never see myself actually get the aff...

Antonius

SSC will spam applying to head if you have scald as an affliction you want to cure and blindness as a defence you want to keep up. Applying epidermal to head will always cure blindness first, since the choice is supposed to be trying to cure scald at the risk of being transfixed (which allows parry bypass) or not curing scald, so it will APPLY EPIDERMAL TO HEAD (cure blindness), EAT BAYBERRY (put blindness back up), APPLY, EAT, and so on. Obviously if you use herb balance for something else it will break out of the loop, since it won't be putting blindness back up.

I'm 99% sure that scald is communicated over GMCP. I'd assume there's an accompanying line, since it's a golem attack, but I don't pay too much attention to most combat lines.

Sayenna

Antonius said:

I'm 99% sure that scald is communicated over GMCP. I'd assume there's an accompanying line, since it's a golem attack, but I don't pay too much attention to most combat lines.

You're right; found the problem. Wundersys had 0 handling of scald whatsoever, it didn't even show that you gained/lost the scald aff until I fixed that function, despite having it add/remove affs from gmcp. So serverside would sit there just spamming epidermal. It wasn't in the list of prompt tags either, that's why I was confused about it, none of my shit was saying I got/cured scalded

"Horrifying pain overcomes you as a crystalline golem sprays a stream of super-heated steam directly into your face, scalding your throat and searing your skin." -- Is the scald line.

Farrah

Sobriquet said:

Dunn said:

Oh, I meant group decorum. I'm a piece of shit. I blame Tanris for that one.

Bastard.. whatever happened to him anyway... ?

Hit by a bus, I heard. Tragic.

Daeir said:

Dunn said:

If you were playing when @Tanris and co used to do guard wipes, I expect you'd be in rants instead of here. That's a consequence. You're just spewing jade all over this board.

We could always drop the decorum and go back to that sort of play if you want, but I don't think that's the direction anyone wants this game to go. Perma death MUDs exist if you want a lateral move, or you can go full time EVE.

What does that have to do with anything? Guard wipes still don't mean shit. For a game that's meant to be conflict driven, the actual mechanical conflict drives in Achaea are almost non-existent. There's pretty much no consequence for losing anything outside of what you choose to make of it IC. Death is a minor time loss, sovereignty is a name on survey, crusades are.. crusades and that's about it.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but is there really any actual reason to even bother with combat outside of enjoying it? Not that it isn't a valid reason in and of itself, but as far as making an impact on the game world goes, it really isn't a lot. It's like, Jhui's killed ten thousand dudes, but Farrah become a fuckin Avatar of Deucalion and hosed down some stuff in Ashtan. What are people going to remember more in two years time? The dude who doesn't play much anymore, or the Avatar?

Not saying this to be snide or dire or anything like that, just the actual systems that support conflict in Achaea are HEINOUSLY undersupported and people don't seem to care that much about it. Marks are still a joke, the Dauntless is okay I guess, Delosian Eagles are ???, the Staff of Nicator is somewhere, shrines don't mean anything as usual, sanctions aren't at all significant in a citystate's history whatsoever for the most part. We got teased with a reasonably interesting glimpse of a new war system with the UW civil war and then it just.. vanished into the ether.

It's worth noting that obtaining Avatar requires combat success (crusades). It'd takes ages to get it without "winning" any crusades.

Makarios

Alright, going to chip in here.

Guard wipes: You'd be surprised at this I think. Most city coffers are not as endless as most people suspect (I did the math on this just now as I was curious).

Death penalties: I'm happy with death from a mechanics standpoint.

Sovereignty: this is flavour, the mechanical benefits are the essence bonuses.

Crusades: Not sure what you mean here.

On what people will remember: Depends who you ask! I imagine Farrah and the Targossians who were there care much more about the avatar, and I imagine Jhui probably cares more about his kill count. That's part of the beauty of Achaea: you make your own memorable moments.

Marks: that ones a perspective thing so I'll skip it. I'll say contract completion rates are way up, though membership is certainly down.

Delosian eagles: no arguments there.

Staff: The staff of Nicator is with the person who won it - that person just isn't around currently.

Shrines: I'd disagree on this for the same reason I'm a big advocate of the shrine system. People get more invested in their gods than most anything else in Achaea. There's a reason people put in hours of work maintaining shrine networks, and regardless of the party line: its not because they don't care.

Raids: Sanctions have been used in several events as a goal (we actually have support for stuff happening automatically on a sanction completing that does get used).

Territory system: I wasn't happy with the uw war system after the trial run: it was good for the event but not for a permanent mechanic in its current state. We'll probably use aspects of it, but it requires much more refinement.

We're always looking to add more conflict options, but a point of your post is spot on: the point of Achaea is to enjoy it. I could go down the list of major loss style mechanics we've had in the past, but I'll just note that they all got removed for being almost universally reviled, even by our most active members of the pk community. Obviously, we're always open to ideas - making conflict systems is my favourite thing, but the number one consideration should always be "is this actually fun?"

Ahmet

@Farrah If only he saw it coming.

Atalkez

Daeir said:

How many guards would one have to wipe to bankrupt a citystate?

About 2700 for Targossas

Ahmet

Daeir said:

How many guards would one have to wipe to bankrupt a citystate?

Fewer than it would take to bankrupt Ryldagh.

Makarios

Daeir said:

How many guards would one have to wipe to bankrupt a citystate?

Ha, I'm not answering that one, I was vague on purpose! Quite achieveable is all you're getting from me on that score.

Klendathu

Seems like some cities need to get on that shiptrading bug... 

Achilles

@Daeir - Shallam was heading that direction as they were losing a few million per IC year due to all the guards and room losses and that was with the Templars paying most of the city bills.  The main source of gold for cities is still city credit sales so it wouldn't surprise me if a less PK focused city like Hashan doesn't have deep coffers.

Dochitha

Ahh... Guard wipes best gold sink. I see.