Combat Logs

Cooper

Someone should figure out the exact amount of strength needed for a Runewarden torso damaged + increased torso dsb damage to kill. From my pre-release testing it should be attainable without artefacts, though you have to sacrifice a con spec for it.

Mizik

Mine's 93% 20.
So 96% 21.
~100% 22.

Cooper

That's with torso damage and the Runewarden dsb buff?

Antonius

Assuming the numbers from my testing a while ago are still accurate (no guarantee they are), 20 strength should do it on the few classes that don't have resist all type defences. Unartied, and without truefavours or the elixir from the SoW, most you can hope for as a Runewarden is 19 strength (13 base + 2 racial spec + 1 trait + 1 Jera + 2 Fury), which should give you ~97%.

Arador

We should test these with the Runie DSB Buff.

Mizik

Cooper said:

That's with torso damage and the Runewarden dsb buff?

Yeah, on 10k health Dragon Jhui.

Arador

That's on par with Antonius's numbers though. Not seeing the buff.

Cooper

Antonius's 20 was 93.9%. I'm not a Runie so I can't do in depth testing but initial reaction is that dsb was changed sometime, a resistance is affecting it, or Runie dsb buff is broken.

Aerek

I dunno. I have the same 18 STR I did before the Weaponmastery change, and I'm killing a lot of people now that I wasn't killing before with DSBs. Algiz, Scales, and favours still affect DSB, don't what else.

Amranu

After an exhausting morning of fighting, Proficy and I both keel over dead within seconds of each other:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/de978cd8

Caladbolg

Atalkez said:

Cynlael said:

Tell that to Caladbolg.

Caladbolg was Paladin with RoH and Piety.

Caladbolg did it as a runewarden with Dagaz too.

You don't need your opponent to stay in the room to cleave them you need them to say stuff like Cleave is useless and lol at you for trying to use it im awesome and im not going to get cleaved.

Then you cleave them while they think they're uncleaveable

Caladbolg

Caladbolg said:

Atalkez said:

Cynlael said:

Tell that to Caladbolg.

Caladbolg was Paladin with RoH and Piety.

Caladbolg did it as a runewarden with Dagaz too.

You don't need your opponent to stay in the room to cleave them you need them to say stuff like Cleave is useless and lol at you for trying to use it im awesome and im not going to get cleaved.

Then you cleave them while they think they're uncleaveable

Also block works almost as well as piety.

Aelios

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f044d7db

This is how I have to kill @Jhui these days.

Eat it, chaos scum!!

Jhui

was just bashing annwyn, when did mobs get rebounding

Aelios

Your words sting my delicate soul.

Austere

I think the worst part of that log is you having to check ih to grab everything.  What is this, 2005? Gmcp grab for life. 

Sobriquet

Seeing as I'm playing a little more now after a 3-4 year fighting break, it seems most of my combat methods are still fairly old school.

Any new Jester combat logs would be appreciated.

Dochitha

Sobriquet said:

Seeing as I'm playing a little more now after a 3-4 year fighting break, it seems most of my combat methods are still fairly old school.

Any new Jester combat logs would be appreciated.

Guess those will include dagger throws into aeonlock, with bomb stunning the moment aeon hits.

Seftin

Jester is basically just a script to track your timing on concussion bomb and then having enough time to throw aeon, throw dagger x 2, drop bomb and throw aeon into more throws after slipping mickey/itchpowder

Sobriquet

Is that what we've been reduced to?

Exelethril

Sobriquet said:

Is that what we've been reduced to?

Script efficiency is what a majority of top-tier combat has been reduced to these days. You can excel manually with a lot of practice but you'll (at least, I can't  ) never simulate automation efficiency since human errors op.

Rom

Sobriquet said:

Is that what we've been reduced to?

No, that's not the best or only way to kill people. 
Edit: No classes presently require any form of automation to excel with.

Austere

Exelethril said:

Sobriquet said:

Is that what we've been reduced to?

Script efficiency is what a majority of top-tier combat has been reduced to these days. You can excel manually with a lot of practice but you'll (at least, I can't  ) never simulate automation efficiency since human errors op.

While true in theory, a script has just as much margin for error as a player does,  at this point.  No one has coded a perfect offense, yet.  There are literally thousands of variables to any given situation and while scripting is strong,  having the knowledge to know when and how to manual is just as strong.  Depending on the class and situation, I can think of a lot of times I would rather just manual it entirely. 

Exelethril

Yeah, I wasn't implying you need automation to excel. My point is, the margin for error is higher and efficiency is reduced by reflex time and decision making, which code tends to simulate better than human reaction time. Steam VAC bans are around for a reason.

Khel

Sobriquet said:

Is that what we've been reduced to?

**With the disclaimer that I've not spent nearly enough time working on it to say I'm qualified to make a proper assessment:
 
Jester does need some love I think - mickey is only enough of a sponge to stop them from eating for one juggled throw (throw->they proc mickey->throw->they eat to cure just before you get balance back), so it just pushes them back a little in terms of curing. With aeon being as long as it is, any kind of reliable aeonlock is going to involve either lots of build-up with juggle, throwx3, juggle, throwx3, etc. or spamming concussion bombs.

Itchpowder is unreliable, occasionally popping before you even get balance back from giving it, sometimes not procing for 4 seconds. This makes it unreliable for locking and is sort of an afterthought, not a part of your reliable kill chain.

You can do some mean things with mangles/puppetry I suspect, though I'm kind of not fond of that entire mechanic since it is fashion->run->fashion->run so you spend half the time getting chased while trying to set your offense up, and if you mess your prep up you have to start all over with the Yakety Sax.

Cynlael

Jester still best 1v1 class in game, and ridiculously good support in raids. Definitely does not need love.

Dochitha

@Khel Jester can use some love to reduce it's RNG ranges, but that's really all. While you can't plot a very reliable kill sequence like DWB or BMs, you are a pain to kill, and because of that, you can have all your time to safely prep your offense and try again later if you failed one.

RNG is needed for Jesters as a flavour to their mischief, but I think it can be reduced, like itchpowder to proc between 2-4s, bombs to be timed between +2-.

Mickey is one of the coolest idea ever, and one of the best in putting enemy behind curing. Your suggestion on another thread about bulk wishing for mickey and the decay time works.

Juggled throw is quick enough, I believe 3 artied throws are going to be quicker...but I do suggest having a class arty, some darts or throwing knives that returns to the inventory, if not, make it disposable, cardboard knife or something, that can be folded from using 3 tarot cards. Having to pick up knives/axes are annoying, and enemy can just pick that up against you.

Jester just need a bit of convenience polishing, so more fun being one and less hassle of upkeeping it.

Seftin

In my opinion - jester could use a complete rehaul to bring it in line and up to date with other classes - a lot of potential behind them being more towards daggers and tumbling skills and some form of intellect (word power maybe - jesters were witty which could be cool) rather than balloons/bad humor/silliness.

Their offense is strong but boring to play with and against, their are other classes that are quicker and more capable of killing someone which doesn't involve a long setup going ahead again (depending on the path you use with jester)

I think more people would ultimately play and enjoy the class (both against and as it) in a combat setting if they were reworked from the ground up - scrap all their current skills and rework them.

Sobriquet

People having been saying that though, @Seftin since I first starting playing 11 years ago. Plenty has been reworked since but the flavour has always been the same. Jesters were incredibly strong back in the day with obliterate (You're welcome) and Manu's trick of handing off multiple timed bombs but you could say that about a lot of classes. I enjoyed playing jester as you could trick your opponent at times, not just the systems but both those areas have moved on, as you'd expect. I used to play as a fairly successful combatant and never utilised juggle at all so seems a little disheartening to hear we are now relying on a well timed bomb plus aeon plus daggers and little else. But then hear others bring out the age old saying of Jesters being the best 1v1 class. Not saying either is right or wrong. Horses for courses I guess and since coming back I've still had a few of the old tricks come off

Dochitha

Jester is a class with one of the best defense in-game against all other classes. Guess because of that they are not getting a quicker sequence / kill reliability.

I think the RNG can be tuned down, Jester's offense will become scarier, more predictable for the Jester.

Apart from that, aeonlock is pretty killer for a Jester to pull off, they have the most tricks to make that stick.

I can think of mickey setting back asthma cure into aeon, or balanceless order smoke-something-else to waste pipe balance into aeon, stun into aeon and many other stuffs. Maybe that's me coming from a Shaman point of view (where we need 20 fashions into vodun slow, and it's 3.7s balance with nimble, compared to 2.7s with aeon card) and in context of aeon and force action, I totally love Jester's access to them.

Returning knives as class arty will open up a lot more convenience thus innovation for affliction fights.