Obviously I'm not around for every raid, but I don't think I've seen a non-eleusian/eleusian housed person defend Eleusis in the last rl year. I know myself and others specifically reject any non-forestal offers of help.
I saw my name mentioned in here and became highly suspicious. Hi @Xer!
I do not leave rites outside of the city, save allsight, which doesn't hurt you. I especially do not rite the clouds, no matter how often you guys leave gravehands there. Even when you have them there today and try to gank me when I'm simply walking by. I have never defended Eleusis.
Cyrene citizens are allowed to (as long as they are representing themselves, not the city) persue their own causes as they wish - that's been a thing for a long time. Phaesteans fight Nihilists, we occasionally helped out Shallam/New Hope (have not since Targossas though, they don't need us much), etc. It's usually under half a dozen people, and more often only 1-3.
I am otherwise not getting involved in this argument. But damnit, I'm innocent here, and did not complain of being ganked. :-/
And I love too Be still, my indelible friend That love soon might end You are unbreaking And be known in its aching Though quaking Shown in this shaking Though crazy Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
I recall one raid where Silvarien was definitely there when Delphinus, Penwize and you were missing. there was also another beckoner, if I go by my gut memory, in a grove while you were there Zeon. I could be wrong - the raids and defenders and who's here and what's going on is pretty jumbled so you would know better than I do what your rules are and aren't. I generally agree with the observation that when certain people are present or leading, there are less outsiders interfering in the fight, but I distinctly recall a time when Kaevan and I moved away to not die to LoS, and when we we moved back, the entire group was gone, beckoned into the grove, where I shortly followed after and died. We were also beckoned from the Eleusian defendable onto guards, in a totally different raid. It's certainly our (mine ) fault for not blocking/calling for them, but if you think about adding beckon to a group whose primary strength is melee on non-exterminated rooms (with piety gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh), that just feels like one too many factional advantages when we're generally outnumbered.
I do understand that Eleusis might need more help/leaders at various times, and I don't begrudge the occasional one or two people, but the external help at times is definitely beyond what I feel we should expect outside some kind of alliance of sorts.
EDIT: @Melodie Sorry abut the accusation then I don't remember the exact details - but I distinctly remember *a* Cyrenian laying rites on the clouds while we were skirmishing Eleusis. Then the culprit in question just stayed in Cyrene for hours on end after the skirmish ended. Since I don't remember the name, it's much less likely to be you now that I think about it with my still sleepy mind. Anyhow, too much talk on this. Back to ganklogs >.>
Exterminations are not raids on Eleusis. Just in case people are getting those two mixed up.
No. Sanctioned raids definitely are, though. I was there for those instances. I'm pretty sure Priests and Paladins do not belong in Eleusisn Houses too. Are there even any who are Eleusians?
"Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"
If your citizens are going to defend another city, it doesn't matter what your ideology is or whether you feel it's wrong to forbid them from doing so, be prepared to reap the whirlwind.
I've always felt that Cyrenian citizens shouldn't be defending other cities - and they especially shouldn't be defending the new, harder Good faction.
Tl;dr : You have several Cyrenians who defended Eleusis throughout the course of the entire week. The first raid was yesterday, when we told you exactly *why* we raided. You guys kept helping out so we came back.
That's understandable, but... raiding Cyrene is only going to encourage more people to defend both places. The fact that nobody seems to understand this when I explain it is becoming mind-boggling to me.
(plus, at least one of those Cyrenians is in a forestal house, so they're required to help defend)
I sort of feel for the people who are torn (Cyrenian, but are part of organizations that are essentially aligned with other cities/factions, and often ones that are far from neutral-good), but that always seemed like such an odd arrangement in the first place. It is always going to lead to this sort of problem - and now that the factions are finally drawing harder lines, I think more and more of them may be forced to make decisions, unless that trend is reversed (I think it's a good trend though, and hope it continues).
It's not that I mind them defending per say, but there's a reason why factions were broken up. If a Cyrenian Forestal came to defend Eleusis, that's fine - because they have Eleusian class related abilities (though it doesn't mean we don't feel the urge to do *something* about Cyrene nevertheless - it's a problem of decisions having consequences IG). The problem is more when you have consistently get rites, and beckon on top of thronspray, groves and traps - it's insane. At the very least, if you're going to have a number of Cyrenians consistently defend, even with RP reason, then the exact same thing can be said of Mhaldor when we raid. The thing about different cities being "forced" to defend, makes the line of how to deal with it blurry. I mean, Mhaldor will deal with people joining in to help. But the response is likely to target the cities if interfering happens consistently. Because in the end, there's no *real* way to stop an individual from doing whatever he wants in Achaea - death is fleeting and can easily be ignored. You need to put whatever whatever ties they have to force any kind of pressure on an individual.
As for raiding Cyrene encouraging more people to defend - then would doing nothing change the status quo of having defenders in Eleusis? We raided Cyrene, yelled why we were - is it unreasonable to expect that if Cyrene doesn't want raids, that they would attempt to do something to curb the problem? And that if the opposite holds true, that they're willing to accept the consequences of their citizens?
I believe we aren't taking any new forestals, so that particular problem should eventually die out. There are indications that we may eventually have to lose our Priests and Paladins too, as the proper place for them is really the Good faction, which rightly expects that those classes *must* defend Good. That may mean that Cyrene eventually needs some rebalancing, by the way - as we are a city that doesn't currently have "control" over any class, much less a game changing one. I think Hashan is in the same boat.
I saw my name mentioned in here and became highly suspicious. Hi Xer!
I do not leave rites outside of the city, save allsight, which doesn't hurt you. I especially do not rite the clouds, no matter how often you guys leave gravehands there. Even when you have them there today and try to gank me when I'm simply walking by. I have never defended Eleusis.
Cyrene citizens are allowed to (as long as they are representing themselves, not the city) persue their own causes as they wish - that's been a thing for a long time. Phaesteans fight Nihilists, we occasionally helped out Shallam/New Hope (have not since Targossas though, they don't need us much), etc. It's usually under half a dozen people, and more often only 1-3.
I am otherwise not getting involved in this argument. But damnit, I'm innocent here, and did not complain of being ganked. :-/
I have emphasised the portion of your post that I vehemently disagree with. Simply by being part of an major IG organisation, a player represents it with every action he or she takes. Obviously, the older, more established characters are going to make a bigger impression than the novice blindly charging into conflicts to work alongside their friends, of course. Characters never cease to represent their city-state, Divine Order, or any other organisation with a strong RP purpose and/or presence until they are no longer a member of it.
The first sanctioned raid on Cyrene had plenty of warning and talking (where raids are concerned, anyway) about why Mhaldor was there from 2 high-ranking IG officials. When individuals from organisations choose to take sides during a conflict, they are representing their organisation/home whether or not they say otherwise. The only way to truly dissociate from their home organisation would be, as previously mentioned, to not be part of it.
I saw my name mentioned in here and became highly suspicious. Hi Xer!
I do not leave rites outside of the city, save allsight, which doesn't hurt you. I especially do not rite the clouds, no matter how often you guys leave gravehands there. Even when you have them there today and try to gank me when I'm simply walking by. I have never defended Eleusis.
Cyrene citizens are allowed to (as long as they are representing themselves, not the city) persue their own causes as they wish - that's been a thing for a long time. Phaesteans fight Nihilists, we occasionally helped out Shallam/New Hope (have not since Targossas though, they don't need us much), etc. It's usually under half a dozen people, and more often only 1-3.
I am otherwise not getting involved in this argument. But damnit, I'm innocent here, and did not complain of being ganked. :-/
I have emphasised the portion of your post that I vehemently disagree with. Simply by being part of an major IG organisation, a player represents it with every action he or she takes. Obviously, the older, more established characters are going to make a bigger impression than the novice blindly charging into conflicts to work alongside their friends, of course. Characters never cease to represent their city-state, Divine Order, or any other organisation with a strong RP purpose and/or presence until they are no longer a member of it.
The first sanctioned raid on Cyrene had plenty of warning and talking (where raids are concerned, anyway) about why Mhaldor was there from 2 high-ranking IG officials. When individuals from organisations choose to take sides during a conflict, they are representing their organisation/home whether or not they say otherwise. The only way to truly dissociate from their home organisation would be, as previously mentioned, to not be part of it.
This is false. You raided us that morning, and several Eleusians came to defend because it was early morning and no Cyrenians were around. Then, later, you raided Eleusis as retaliation for their defense of Cyrene, at which point several Cyrenians went to defend Eleusis/the forests. Only then did you guys contact us, while pledging to kill off the defenders. Then you focused almost entirely on Thundarsa, who isn't a combatant and wasn't defending IIRC. When you raided Eleusis/the forests again, a few Cyrenians went to defend again, probably because they're tired of this BS in general. Then, finally, you raided us. It was not the first sanctioned raid on Cyrene that day, it was the second, and it was the 4th raid/exterm Mhaldor did that day. Only after the first raid on Eleusis (which was in retaliation for defence on an even earlier raid on Cyrene) did Mhaldor contact Cyrene about this, which meant there were 2 conflicts prior and 2 conflicts after.
To reiterate, I personally am tired of logging on day after day and seeing that 12 Mhaldorians raided the city during work or sleep hours. I get that that a lot of Mhaldorians are Aussies, but if you're going to attack us in a way that we can't defend against (because we're heavily EST and you're raiding between 7-10 AM EST on a workday) then you can expect some of us to try and fight you different ways.
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Party right, party hard,
Sing and dance, perfect bard.
Prefarar loop, accentato whore,Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.
I do not leave rites outside of the city, save allsight, which doesn't hurt you. I especially do not rite the clouds, no matter how often you guys leave gravehands there. Even when you have them there today and try to gank me when I'm simply walking by. I have never defended Eleusis.
Cyrene citizens are allowed to (as long as they are representing themselves, not the city) persue their own causes as they wish - that's been a thing for a long time. Phaesteans fight Nihilists, we occasionally helped out Shallam/New Hope (have not since Targossas though, they don't need us much), etc. It's usually under half a dozen people, and more often only 1-3.
I am otherwise not getting involved in this argument. But damnit, I'm innocent here, and did not complain of being ganked. :-/
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Party right, party hard,
Sing and dance, perfect bard.
Prefarar loop, accentato whore,Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.
내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
The first sanctioned raid on Cyrene had plenty of warning and talking (where raids are concerned, anyway) about why Mhaldor was there from 2 high-ranking IG officials. When individuals from organisations choose to take sides during a conflict, they are representing their organisation/home whether or not they say otherwise. The only way to truly dissociate from their home organisation would be, as previously mentioned, to not be part of it.
Including me!
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Party right, party hard,
Sing and dance, perfect bard.
Prefarar loop, accentato whore,Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.