Targossas, the Dawnspear

Melodie

@Aliath - Clearly you have not explored Neraeos' temple, or the various water rooms of Cyrene!

Josoul

Aliath said:

Need to move the city limits a bit at least, cutting right through the eastern shore and parts of Shaastan, which makes it rather annoying going to certain places with totems in the way

I was going to say something similar but there is now a road and something like a bridge to connect north/south eastern shore. Now refuges just need to keep cool and let people walking through it in peace! It's a road, not Targossas! Be happy and stay with your collection of brand new little islands, river, awesome waterfalls (and raiders when they come) -in- Targossas! To make the entire road -outside Targossas- protected is just an inconvenience for all. Imagine Ashtan claiming Prelatorian highway, or Hashan North road, tsk, tsk. 

Being asked to leave from a road.. That was a surprise, but at least it was not a group of dragons biting me on sight!

Darroth

Josoul said:

Aliath said:

Need to move the city limits a bit at least, cutting right through the eastern shore and parts of Shaastan, which makes it rather annoying going to certain places with totems in the way

I was going to say something similar but there is now a road and something like a bridge to connect north/south eastern shore. Now refuges just need to keep cool and let people walking through it in peace! It's a road, not Targossas! Be happy and stay with your collection of brand new little islands, river, awesome waterfalls (and raiders when they come) -in- Targossas! To make the entire road -outside Targossas- protected is just an inconvenience for all. Imagine Ashtan claiming Prelatorian highway, or Hashan North road, tsk, tsk. 

Being asked to leave from a road.. That was a surprise, but at least it was not a group of dragons biting me on sight!

Ashtan has already totemed the entire Central wild by Ashtan and bog. Mhaldor totemed basically of the isle. Stupid shit needs to stop imo. 

Delphinus

@Aliath, on exits: I actually see the slice-through as a weakness. That's going to be a lot of defendables for them to protect. I wouldn't be surprised if it were walled up on one side, letting a path through Solace Bay.


@Vansittart, on names: Although I've eased off a bit, this:

Vansittart said:

Two pages of mild interest, 5 pages of whinging about the name.  You guys, I bet Deucalora are so incentivised right now to carry on working - for free, purely for your own enjoyment remember.

I realise names are important but honest to goodness do you listen to yourselves sometimes?  Does no-one read this thread and think, wow this is negative and whingy and I just got something huge, plus a sandbox to play in and gosh it can't be easy to work up a whole new area all the time trying to keep a disparate group of players happy.  I know maybe I'll redress the balance with some excitement?

You guys: Silas was the most positive person in this thread.  Silas.

Y'all go away and think about that.

...is ridiculous.

I'll not assume who's responsible for what, because those assumptions are, at the end of the day, often vastly misinformed. Maybe it was proposed by a paid staff member like Sarapis or Tecton, as high-end production decisions can be. Maybe it was an offhand comment by a Celani who's since bit the dust. Maybe Deucora quit months ago and are being puppeteered by the Poergh Collective. I have no real way of knowing.

What I do know is that the reasons haven't been well-articulated, because this isn't something where you just pick apart the logic and forensic-science its last meal. Whether it appeals or appalls, it does so on a very basic level. There may be reasons, sure -- but they're irrelevant.

While I'd like to personally ease off a bit, expressing criticism does not a negativity make. Some of it is very negative, granted, but you're painting with a very wide brush.

Halos

This is a new city: its political borders are yet undefined. When they do become more defined, expect them to change. For the time being, enemies of the refugees explore at your own risk. We will kill you. You might get a warning.

Also, this is my Targossan theme song right now:

Trevize

Darroth said:

Josoul said:

Aliath said:

Need to move the city limits a bit at least, cutting right through the eastern shore and parts of Shaastan, which makes it rather annoying going to certain places with totems in the way

I was going to say something similar but there is now a road and something like a bridge to connect north/south eastern shore. Now refuges just need to keep cool and let people walking through it in peace! It's a road, not Targossas! Be happy and stay with your collection of brand new little islands, river, awesome waterfalls (and raiders when they come) -in- Targossas! To make the entire road -outside Targossas- protected is just an inconvenience for all. Imagine Ashtan claiming Prelatorian highway, or Hashan North road, tsk, tsk. 

Being asked to leave from a road.. That was a surprise, but at least it was not a group of dragons biting me on sight!

Ashtan has already totemed the entire Central wild by Ashtan and bog. Mhaldor totemed basically of the isle. Stupid shit needs to stop imo. 

If you can claim and hold it, good for you, imo.

Kyrra

Darroth said:

Josoul said:

Aliath said:

Need to move the city limits a bit at least, cutting right through the eastern shore and parts of Shaastan, which makes it rather annoying going to certain places with totems in the way

I was going to say something similar but there is now a road and something like a bridge to connect north/south eastern shore. Now refuges just need to keep cool and let people walking through it in peace! It's a road, not Targossas! Be happy and stay with your collection of brand new little islands, river, awesome waterfalls (and raiders when they come) -in- Targossas! To make the entire road -outside Targossas- protected is just an inconvenience for all. Imagine Ashtan claiming Prelatorian highway, or Hashan North road, tsk, tsk. 

Being asked to leave from a road.. That was a surprise, but at least it was not a group of dragons biting me on sight!

Ashtan has already totemed the entire Central wild by Ashtan and bog. Mhaldor totemed basically of the isle. Stupid shit needs to stop imo. 

Ashtan totemed to two south of the gates of Ashtan, which is defendable.

Achilles

Kyrra said:

Ashtan totemed to two south of the gates of Ashtan, which is defendable.

There are shrines nw, n of NoT and a few more north of NoT as well.  Those personal totems though if that's what you mean.

Cooper

Inside the Mausoleum of Ekary Lucoster. (Central Wilderness)

A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground.

You see a single exit leading south.

8936h, 6943m, 35192e, 31958w cexkdb-

Expertly formed from carefully carved wood and thick leather, this runic totem 

protrudes almost five feet from the ground, although it is not particularly 

thick in diameter. Largely unadorned, its smooth surface is interrupted only by 

the delicate silver inlay that defines spaces for six runes.

A rune shaped like a butterfly is sketched in slot 3. (nairat: transfix)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 4. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 5. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 6. (fehu: sleep)

It is tuned against enemies of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

It weighs about 30 pounds.

It bears the distinctive mark of Dunn.

You may use this item to parry with.

(One room north of NoT)

Along the Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

A ladder of long, soft leaves comprises a wispy Weaver's Fern along the ground. 

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading northeast and south.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel yourself calm down as the kola nut wears off.

Along the Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading northeast and southwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

Deeply rutted highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading north and southwest.

8936h, 5793m, 35362e, 31730w cexkdb-(-96 Mana)

Expertly formed from carefully carved wood and thick leather, this runic totem 

protrudes almost five feet from the ground, although it is not particularly 

thick in diameter. Largely unadorned, its smooth surface is interrupted only by 

the delicate silver inlay that defines spaces for six runes.

A rune like an open eye is sketched in slot 2. (wunjo: cure blind)

A rune shaped like a butterfly is sketched in slot 3. (nairat: transfix)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 4. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 5. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 6. (fehu: sleep)

It is tuned against enemies of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

It weighs about 30 pounds.

It bears the distinctive mark of Earionduil.

You may use this item to parry with.

This totem is the property of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

Highway skirting a bog (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground. A scantily clad woman leans against the wall with a 

suggestive leer.

You see exits leading north, northeast, south, and west.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

Highway skirting a bog (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading south, southwest, and west.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

Prelatorian Highway north of bog (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading east, southwest, and west.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

Prelatorian Highway north of a bog (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading north, east, and south.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your limbs lock up in paralysis as you see an inguz rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

8936h, 5711m, 35454e, 31533w cexkd-(-90 Mana)

Chord

Veldrin said:

A proper name is bloody well important. Don't expect the 'Singing Violins' to be a group of butchers.

 I'd expect it to be a Blademaster sword.


Chord:

It was my sword.

Cooper

The Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading south and northwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

The Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading north and southeast.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your limbs lock up in paralysis as you see an inguz rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel yourself calm down as the kola nut wears off.

Junction of the Northern Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading north and south.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

Your limbs lock up in paralysis as you see an inguz rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel yourself calm down as the kola nut wears off.

On the Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

The glint of a bar of gold draws your eye downwards. A runic totem is planted 

solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading east, south, and northwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

Your limbs lock up in paralysis as you see an inguz rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

Do you get the picture yet?

Cooper

An unfinished road off the Prelatorian Highway (road). (Central Wilderness)

A ladder of long, soft leaves comprises a wispy Weaver's Fern along the ground. 

A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading southeast and west.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

On a well-travelled road (road). (Central Wilderness)

A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading east and northwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel yourself calm down as the kola nut wears off.

A bend in the road (road). (Central Wilderness)

An enormous black orb spins slowly in mid-air here above a golden pedestal. 

Overflowing with blood and other trophies of the dead, a sacrificial altar to 

the Lord of Warfare has been erected nearby. A runic totem is planted solidly in

the ground.

You see exits leading northeast, southeast, and west.

8936h, 6381m, 35852e, 31177w cexkdb-

Expertly formed from carefully carved wood and thick leather, this runic totem 

protrudes almost five feet from the ground, although it is not particularly 

thick in diameter. Largely unadorned, its smooth surface is interrupted only by 

the delicate silver inlay that defines spaces for six runes.

A rune like an open eye is sketched in slot 1. (wunjo: cure blind)

A rune shaped like a butterfly is sketched in slot 2. (nairat: transfix)

A rune that looks like a stick man is sketched in slot 3. (inguz: paralysis)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 4. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 5. (fehu: sleep)

A rune like a closed eye is sketched in slot 6. (fehu: sleep)

It is tuned against enemies of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

It weighs about 30 pounds.

It bears the distinctive mark of Earionduil.

You may use this item to parry with.

This totem is the property of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

A hidden path (road). (Central Wilderness)

A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading northeast and southwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

A hidden path (road). (Central Wilderness)

A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground.

You see exits leading northeast and southwest.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune. (transfixed +)

Your limbs lock up in paralysis as you see an inguz rune on a totem.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Your insomnia has cleared up.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.

You spy a fehu rune on a totem.

Kyrra

Achilles said:

Kyrra said:

Ashtan totemed to two south of the gates of Ashtan, which is defendable.

There are shrines nw, n of NoT and a few more north of NoT as well.  Those personal totems though if that's what you mean.

Yes, it's precisely what I meant. They are personal totems and not org property.

Cooper

12.3.1 Ashtan, Bastion of the North

                         [CITY LEADERS]

                      Overseer: Dunn

This totem is the property of Dunn Lichlord, Herald of the Outer Cold.

Just because they are technically Dunn's totems does not mean that they aren't actually Ashtan's totems. They totemed a good portion of Petra, all the northern Central Wilderness, and the bog. Don't argue that isn't retarded.

Tanaar

You must be good at forging to have a blade capable of splitting hairs that fine, Kyrra.

Yue

Kyrra said:

Kyrra said:

Ashtan totemed to two south of the gates of Ashtan, which is defendable.

There are shrines nw, n of NoT and a few more north of NoT as well.  Those personal totems though if that's what you mean.

Yes, it's precisely what I meant. They are personal totems and not org property.

Dunn is the Overseer of Ashtan!!!

Edit: Oh, ninja'd. I'm slow today.

Dunn

God these tears are glorious. Let's return to whining about what Deucalion and Aurora have been working hard on for you, though. 

Vayne

I thought Darknight was the Overseer...

Silas

Shut up whining, jesus christ.

Tanaar

Dunn said:

God these tears are glorious. Let's return to whining about what Deucalion and Aurora have been working hard on for you, though. 

Actually, it started with an Ashtani whining about how aggressively Targossians were defending their area, and ended with us conclusively proving that such whining was baldfaced hypocrisy.

So actually, the shoe's on the other foot.

Tasleus

Urm. Find a runelorist. Ask him to uproot it. Problem solved.

Tasleus

Cooper said:

You guys are so strange and quick to jump on the 'omg you're a retard' bandwagon without even reading what people write.

I reasonably expressed my dislike about the name of the new city/area when asked by Sarapis to do so. It wasn't whining or entitled.

I then showed my distaste for how that thread was handled - largely ignoring that the largest part of results had the players not liking the name and how short the thread was allowed to stay open.

The only time I've truly criticized Achaea for being bad was when the admin let the previous leadership of Shallam completely drive it into the ground without changing things. And they eventually listened to that feedback (of course a large number of other players expressed the same opinion).

I told Tecton straight up that the most recent auction ending early despite him giving a specific time for it to end was stupid and ridiculous. He knows that is true. I know that they couldn't have handled it differently after it happened.

If you want to pick someone and yell at them because they are immature and entitled and only talk shit about Achaea, you picked the wrong poster boy. I have created probably 5 threads over the years with the specific purpose of thanking the admin of Achaea for creating a great gaming environment for us. I routinely give kudos to Tecton for how he handles situations. I regularly thank him and other admin for quick responses on issues and lots of other things. I've sent emails to Jumpy -and- another producer of an IRE game to express gratitude for how Achaea is run.

I give feedback and criticism in a good manner, and nearly every problem I've ever brought up with Achaea has been fixed. Tecton (and recently Sarapis) also put up with me avoiding the issue and bug systems for things I need fixed quickly or were way out of line, etc.

tl;dr - you should pick a different person to let your anger out on regarding this topic, because I couldn't really be farther from what you said I am.

You really can't argue with that. Good point, @Cooper. Nicely and maturely stated, as well.

Sohl

no1currrrrr

Iphis

Daeir said:

Oh, the humanMhunity.

FTFY

Dunn

Tanaar said:

God these tears are glorious. Let's return to whining about what Deucalion and Aurora have been working hard on for you, though. 

Actually, it started with an Ashtani whining about how aggressively Targossians were defending their area, and ended with us conclusively proving that such whining was baldfaced hypocrisy. So actually, the shoe's on the other foot.

Oh you mean the non raiders whining about wanting to explore? Yeah, they don't count for these purposes. I did my exploring by force

Blujixapug

Delphinus said:

@Vansittart, on names: Although I've eased off a bit, this:

Vansittart said:

Two pages of mild interest, 5 pages of whinging about the name.  You guys, I bet Deucalora are so incentivised right now to carry on working - for free, purely for your own enjoyment remember.

I realise names are important but honest to goodness do you listen to yourselves sometimes?  Does no-one read this thread and think, wow this is negative and whingy and I just got something huge, plus a sandbox to play in and gosh it can't be easy to work up a whole new area all the time trying to keep a disparate group of players happy.  I know maybe I'll redress the balance with some excitement?

You guys: Silas was the most positive person in this thread.  Silas.

Y'all go away and think about that.

...is ridiculous.

I'll not assume who's responsible for what, because those assumptions are, at the end of the day, often vastly misinformed. Maybe it was proposed by a paid staff member like Sarapis or Tecton, as high-end production decisions can be. Maybe it was an offhand comment by a Celani who's since bit the dust. Maybe Deucora quit months ago and are being puppeteered by the Poergh Collective. I have no real way of knowing.

What I do know is that the reasons haven't been well-articulated, because this isn't something where you just pick apart the logic and forensic-science its last meal. Whether it appeals or appalls, it does so on a very basic level. There may be reasons, sure -- but they're irrelevant.

While I'd like to personally ease off a bit, expressing criticism does not a negativity make. Some of it is very negative, granted, but you're painting with a very wide brush.

There's nothing wrong with being critical, and I certainly agree that "always be grateful no matter what" is a silly outlook (though I don't think that's what Fancytart was saying).

The thing is that positive response to creative endeavour is incredibly important. To know that what you're doing is enjoyed, done well, entertaining, appreciated. Specific responses too, not just generic "we appreciate all you do for us" platitudes. Without that positive feedback and affirmation, volunteers have little reason to continue working but for their own personal enjoyment and gratification. Volunteers do not have anything else coming out of their work - like a paycheck - to look forward to.

Yet most people most of the time either say nothing, or only speak up if they have something bad to say. Example: the large number of posts in this thread dumping on one specific element of this project (its name) without saying anything about the rest of it. Even though presumably they think a river fortress is cool, acknowledge the huge work involved, look forward to being able to build up the city proper, and think the project has been well-executed so far, and in a relatively timely manner (2-3 months turnaround on a large-sized area?), the only part they said anything about was the name.

Sothantos

Vansittart said:

Two pages of mild interest, 5 pages of whinging about the name.  You guys, I bet Deucalora are so incentivised right now to carry on working - for free, purely for your own enjoyment remember.

I realise names are important but honest to goodness do you listen to yourselves sometimes?  Does no-one read this thread and think, wow this is negative and whingy and I just got something huge, plus a sandbox to play in and gosh it can't be easy to work up a whole new area all the time trying to keep a disparate group of players happy.  I know maybe I'll redress the balance with some excitement?

You guys: Silas was the most positive person in this thread.  Silas.

Y'all go away and think about that.

Now, I have to go away again and not get suckered back into the delicious quicksand of Achaea.  I have an xbox now.  It's helping.

@Vansittart, relevant to @Blujixapug, @Delphinus:

What would you have considered constructive criticism?

I'm curious, because to me, I don't think it's that unreasonable to simply express one's dislike for the name. I feel that you've rather mischaracterized us, though, personally, I've already stopped caring about it.

I don't mean to sound nitpicky, but I've noticed a common attitude regarding criticisms of Achaea that I find really interesting: people tend to group anyone expressing disagreement with something as 'whiny haters'. This attitude puzzles me: there seems to be this belief prevalent among gaming communities that you can't really criticize developer decisions.

Not many people actually feel less grateful for the new city and all the admin work that's gone into it because of the name. Whether they like the name or not has nothing to do with how 'entitled' they feel, and it's silly to suggest that by expressing their distaste for it that they're just 'whining': would you say the same about movie reviewers who didn't like certain parts of a movie?

When people post expressing their criticism of something, they're expressing that they're invested in Achaea, and that they care about what happens to it and where it's going. Positive feedback is great, of course, but the game can't improve if no-one ever says anything negative about anything. There's just as much value in criticism as there is in praise, and it's ridiculous to be dismissive of anyone who expresses it.

EDIT: I'll admit that on my part, I don't often post expressing praise, which might be viewed as being negative all the time. I tend to avoid posting on the forums until I have an actual issue with something, and while there are many things I enjoy and like about Achaea, I never really saw the need to express them -- I guess this might be misunderstood.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post...

Bonko

Nothing to see here, folks.

Delphinus

@Blujixapug: Those are all fair points, and Fancytart is a fair and suited name.

Positive, specific feedback is always in short supply, and warmly received when it's warranted. I think that's one of the nice things about these new forums, actually; it only takes one person to say "waterfalls are badass," and the rest can shower the post with little thumbs-ups.


P.S. Waterfalls are badass.

Tanaar

And we have two of them.