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  • AthroseilonAthroseilon Posts: 37Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Well, this has died down. 

    Anyway what's the deal with Targossas their definition of 'good' really sucks
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,073Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ask someone in game :)
  • AthroseilonAthroseilon Posts: 37Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Xaden said:
    Ask someone in game :)
    Let's be real--that answer would suffice for the entire thread.
    Xaden
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,073Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well... then let me paste what I originally wrote:

    It's 'Good', damn it. It's not mortal or moral good. Good isn't the concept of being all nice and polite it's literally a force that drives Creation's advancement and protects it when under threat.
  • AthroseilonAthroseilon Posts: 37Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Xaden said:
    Well... then let me paste what I originally wrote:

    It's 'Good', damn it. It's not mortal or moral good. Good isn't the concept of being all nice and polite it's literally a force that drives Creation's advancement and protects it when under threat.

    So... Mhaldor.
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,073Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xaden said:
    Well... then let me paste what I originally wrote:

    It's 'Good', damn it. It's not mortal or moral good. Good isn't the concept of being all nice and polite it's literally a force that drives Creation's advancement and protects it when under threat.

    So... Mhaldor.
    I hate you
  • AthroseilonAthroseilon Posts: 37Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Halos said:
    conflicted between scoffing at mhaldor-targ false equivalency and awarding a like for elite photoshop skills :s
    Must live in Cyrene :^)
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,424Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 28
    better than Hashan

  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,045Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 28
    If it helps you grasp the concept, then sure. We are Mhaldor, with a completely different goal at endgame, and different operation towards that goal.

    There isn’t a ‘good guy’ place in Achaea. We’re all genocidal, immortal maniacs.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • VenderVender Posts: 212Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 28
    Atalkez said:
    If it helps you grasp the concept, then sure. We are Mhaldor, with a completely different goal at endgame, and different operation towards that goal.

    There isn’t a ‘good guy’ place in Achaea. We’re all genocidal, immortal maniacs.
    it'll make for great movies when Achaea develops the technology
    it's frustration that creates desire
    not the other way around
    unless you let it
    baby, I'll let it
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,140Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    targ is basically an alternate reality mhaldor
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,450Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Targossas is Mhaldor like Ashtan is Eleusis.
    Hataru
  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 472Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Kiet said:
    targ is basically an alternate reality mhaldor
    This is as bad as your arguement last night that Mhaldor isn't anti-chaos.
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
  • ShaydeShayde Posts: 339Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 28
    Well, this has died down. 

    Anyway what's the deal with Targossas their definition of 'good' really sucks

    Targossas and Mhaldor have similar enemies: Darkness, Chaos, *Nature (Nature is not submitting to the full protection of 'Creation', only to their own little realm, and are now being attacked by Targossas).  Both Targossas and Mhaldor are 'City First' in their rules and they are also both violent in their approach of furthering their Goal. Mhaldor's goal is the advancement of nothing less than Sentient life and Targossas' goal is outlined below. Granted, this is some of what I wrote from three years back when I had to help teach all the moralistic Priests and Paladins in Diaspora Era Cyrene about the Good they're supposed to be submitting to. It did not go over too well, because Cyrene's laws are not written to 'Protect Creation' because the methods to 'Protect Creation' would bring trouble to the City of Peace.

    * What is Good? Good is the force that is spawned by Creation in order to ensure the continued growth and prosperity of that same Creation. (Creation is the name used when referring to all that the Creator, Ayar, formed.) It DOES NOT revolve around subjective morals or ideals. As followers of Good, it is that force that drives us, like a conscience, to make sure that the environment of growth within Creation is not sullied by those who wish to harm it. 

    Those who serve Good are not a peaceful people. They must expunge all who wish to hinder Creation.


    * What is Light? Light is the force that guides the servants of Good. It is the heart of Creation. This force illuminates servants of Good's path, through truth, and gives them the drive and motivation needed, through growth, to act as conduits. The patron and authority of this force is Lady Aurora, the Lightbringer. Her order members are called Aarash Kheyr.


    * What is Righteousness? Righteousness is an additional force which guides the servants of Good. It is the arm of Creation. It is the course of actions that the followers of Good take to preserve Creation. This is done through the tenets of Purity and Sacrifice (and the five axioms of Righteousness). It is Purity that is borne through Sacrifice, the Sacrifice of ourselves and the base distractions surrounding us. The patron and authority of this force is Lord Deucalion, the righteous fire. His order members are called Caefir Conlaodh.


    Books you can read in game (I've read a lot, but these two are simple in their explanation without getting too SNOOZEFEST): Axiomatic Writings, by Halos Vorondil & Core Sermons of the Aarash Kheyr by Greys Vorondil.




    KietVenderAralaya
  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 472Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    On a more serious note and actual constructive comment: I don't think its unreasonable to see Mhaldor and Targossas as just pure opposites of each other, even if its not true, for two reasons...
    1. Similar methods: raiding, defiling, sermoning, preaching, burn enemies all down with fire. Its easy to think they're just 'opposite' goals doing the same things, even if that's not true.
    2. OOC concepts for Good vs. Evil: because trying to explain to people the IC Good and Evil aren't OOC Good and Evil is one of the most consistent and constant arcs we've had in the game on both Team Red and Team Blue over the years. Its like trying to explain that in Warcraft Horde vs. Alliance isn't Good vs. Evil.
    The above being said, this has been a battle to explain for literally the entire existance of the two factions. But its more true that they're not just opposites under Targossian theology vs. Shallamese. Because Shallam (at least at periods) are closer to OOC!Good than Targossas by far.

    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
    Shayde
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,140Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 28
    Hataru said:
    Kiet said:
    targ is basically an alternate reality mhaldor
    This is as bad as your arguement last night that Mhaldor isn't anti-chaos.
    literally never said that :D

    re: targ/mhaldor, they're as similar as any two (actual) factions in the game can get, but that doesn't mean they're identical or that they're bff's. the influence of mhaldor in targ's creation is p. clear to see
  • TysandrTysandr Posts: 165Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hataru said:
    ...IC Good and Evil aren't OOC good and evil...

    As someone who consciously tries to embed levels of diagnostic/prognostic uncertainty and approximate precision in my interactions, this gives me the absolute shits.

    Could've just chosen different words gfdi.
    Proof of Concepts: Sailing Map, Trading
    bounty
    "It's not rocket surgery."

  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 472Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Shayde said:
    Klendathu said:
    Shayde said:

    * What is Good?
    * What is Light?
    * What is Righteousness? 
    You missed the most important question... what is love? (Don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more)
    I can imagine Targossian children being taken to where Shallam sank and being told, "See, this is what happens when you Love."
    Converting right now just to do this.
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
    ShaydeRangor
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,140Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tysandr said:
    Hataru said:
    ...IC Good and Evil aren't OOC good and evil...

    As someone who consciously tries to embed levels of diagnostic/prognostic uncertainty and approximate precision in my interactions, this gives me the absolute shits.

    Could've just chosen different words gfdi.
    the word choices taken are kind of confusing for people, but ultimately achaea isn't RL, and people shouldn't expect achaea and RL to use concepts the same way. Ultimately what "Good" is in Achaea evolved from what people considered to be righteously good, and "Evil" in Achaea is simply embracing a label.
  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 472Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Tysandr said:
    Hataru said:
    ...IC Good and Evil aren't OOC good and evil...

    As someone who consciously tries to embed levels of diagnostic/prognostic uncertainty and approximate precision in my interactions, this gives me the absolute shits.

    Could've just chosen different words gfdi.
    I make a lot of "is this upper case or lower case evil or good or darkness" jokes.








    A lot.
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
    TysandrAhmet
  • AthroseilonAthroseilon Posts: 37Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    So where does a person who doesn't want to be an omnicidal maniac go, anyway? It seems like Cyrene maps closest to general real life conceptions of goodness and decency.
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,450Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Not really. Cyrenians don't have bashing restrictions, which means they're genocidal maniacs.

    KeorinAralayaAhmetRangor
  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 472Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    So where does a person who doesn't want to be an omnicidal maniac go, anyway? It seems like Cyrene maps closest to general real life conceptions of goodness and decency.
    The days of this largescale died with soul taintiness going away, imo. Its pretty hard to track now. So its not like you can just stroll up to someone and be like OMG U WERE BASHING GUD STUFF!!! Without catching them in the act. 

    I also wouldn't call peace something aligned with good or evil. Its a very neutral idea and really, peace can be an afront to some pretty evil things. I think this is another statement that's just trying to apply real-life ideas that don't apply to Achaea.
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 550Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Farrah said:

    Not really. Cyrenians don't have bashing restrictions, which means they're genocidal maniacs.

    I'm pretty sure every Achaean is genocidal maniacs.
    Slaughtering entire villages of people.
    Muttering amount momentos as you kill the 5000th troll.
    We're all Immortal, Genocidal, Fanatical freaks.

     <3 Achaea


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Rangor
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